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One year later into my trading career...........seeking guidance and direction
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One year later into my trading career...........seeking guidance and direction

  #61 (permalink)
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budfox View Post
I would like it if we could generalize specifically what "solid work" a beginner trader should do in their first year?
  1. Learn price action?
  2. DEmo trade?
  3. trade a cheap contract
  4. what you suggest?


It would be useful for me.


Thank You.....

I understand what you mean. You are showing great attitude towards learning and I honestly wish you all the best.

Unfortunately trading is not a university and some things just cannot be learnt by following other people's ideas. Some styles are more intellectually demanding, some only fit certain personalities. Being in a competitive business you need to think what your strengths are. I knew I wouldn't be a quant from day one, but who knows maybe you'd do well. Taking responsibility for making decisions about your path is what makes it so difficult. But you will acquire times more actual skill and confidence going on your own rather than just building your knowledge base.

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  #62 (permalink)
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"I am saying to have an idea where price may go before you enter the trade. You should know your entry, exit, and stop before you pull the trigger. Now you can let your winners run and try and get a better exit, but you should have a general idea of where you want to take profit. That gives you an idea if you trading is working correctly.

I see trading as 'Financial Science'. I take technical analysis, price action, market profile, whatever else and create an hypothesis about what price may do. Then I take a small about of risk capital to test it. Once I have determined my entry and pull the trigger, I only have 3 task: Cut losers quick, Manage my risk, and try and maximize my profit.
"


let it be said, and hopefully understood that measurements of uncertainty and thus risk are never definite, since the measurement of uncertainty too, will be having an uncertainty. and while the advice may appear to be sound, it is not absolute, but instead extremely relative - and if not executed properly, even stultifying to one's development as a trader. "plan your trade, and trade your plan" is another. a great idea, as long as the assumptions behind your plan are sound or nothing changes once you're in the trade. you are being asked to make decisions that you are woefully unqualified to make. what you need to do is to gain an understanding of the market which includes causality and market structure, et al, so that you would be qualified to make objective and knowledgeable situational assessments of the market.

i must confess, i’d rather just guess
than be duped and fooled, by randomness
i rather think twice, than just roll the dice
these random studies, do not drive price

rather think like a fox, not be put in a box
as the markets are, a recursive paradox
if not arc sine laws, then ever-changing-cycles
if you are in denial, it can be almost suicidal

these damning effects, must be circumvented
but not with the invented, nor the misrepresented
not with tools that are myopic, or simply synoptic,
lest the retail hypnotic, not benefit the agnostic

a causal understanding, is certainly demanding
but in-or-out of sample, it sets the best example
there’s so much more, than just trade and win
like adding to profits, when others are cashing in

immune to the tout, trading without any doubt
entering trades, where others are stopped-out
not stepping out-on-the ledge, with an illusory edge
there’s no need to hedge, this is my solemn pledge

-tt

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  #63 (permalink)
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tigertrader View Post
"I am saying to have an idea where price may go before you enter the trade. You should know your entry, exit, and stop before you pull the trigger. Now you can let your winners run and try and get a better exit, but you should have a general idea of where you want to take profit. That gives you an idea if you trading is working correctly.

I see trading as 'Financial Science'. I take technical analysis, price action, market profile, whatever else and create an hypothesis about what price may do. Then I take a small about of risk capital to test it. Once I have determined my entry and pull the trigger, I only have 3 task: Cut losers quick, Manage my risk, and try and maximize my profit.
"


let it be said, and hopefully understood that measurements of uncertainty and thus risk are never definite, since the measurement of uncertainty too, will be having an uncertainty. and while the advice may appear to be sound, it is not absolute, but instead extremely relative - and if not executed properly, even stultifying to one's development as a trader. "plan your trade, and trade your plan" is another. a great idea, as long as the assumptions behind your plan are sound or nothing changes once you're in the trade. you are being asked to make decisions that you are woefully unqualified to make. what you need to do is to gain an understanding of the market which includes causality and market structure, et al, so that you would be qualified to make objective and knowledgeable situational assessments of the market.

I absolutely agree. But as a new trader you have to start somewhere and it is better to start with a plan then no plan at all. As one gains experience and understanding of the market and what drives price they can begin to create better plans.

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  #64 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
I absolutely agree. But as a new trader you have to start somewhere and it is better to start with a plan then no plan at all. As one gains experience and understanding of the market and what drives price they can begin to create better plans.

I couldn't disagree more and it is one of the primary reasons that 99% of the people on this forum, will blow-out or give up due to attrition and frustration. they are in too big of a hurry to start trading, and in too big of hurry to make money.

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  #65 (permalink)
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tigertrader View Post
I couldn't disagree more and it is one of the primary reasons that 99% of the people on this forum, will blow-out or give up due to attrition and frustration. they are in too big of a hurry to start trading, and in too big of hurry to make money.

Well you know what they say about delayed gratification.

I understand your point and can see how it would be beneficial to learn how to make a better hypothesis before you trade.

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  #66 (permalink)
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tigertrader View Post
I couldn't disagree more and it is one of the primary reasons that 99% of the people on this forum, will blow-out or give up due to attrition and frustration. they are in too big of a hurry to start trading, and in too big of hurry to make money.

If you were in my shoes you'd freak the fuck out. Watching the collective behaviors/patterns of 50k traders over the last 5 years is enough to question your sanity.

It's like a bunch of sheep jumping off a cliff. We do what we can to try and help them see the light but in the end, most of them just have to jump to see for themselves what's down there. When people are not willing to do the work to help themselves, there is little you can do to help them.

I have been "self taught" in all major aspects of my life. I have never had the mentality of "teach me, show me, prove it". It's always been, "let me figure out how this works".

@budfox posted this a year ago:

Quoting 
PLease don’t bother posting “ you have no experience, can’t trade with a small account, you going to die etc” I get the message, I already made my decision

This thread is basically a repeat of the previous threads. Until he creates a journal and starts taking people's advice and actually doing some real work on his trading, then I believe the evidence clearly shows he cannot be helped.

Mike

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  #67 (permalink)
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budfox View Post
I would like it if we could generalize specifically what "solid work" a beginner trader should do in their first year?
  1. Learn price action?
  2. DEmo trade?
  3. trade a cheap contract
  4. what you suggest?


It would be useful for me.


Thank You.....

First Year reads:


The futures game, who wins, who loses and why. : tewles and jones

CME group risk management handbook.

Winner take all: gallacher

^ these books should at least get you to the point where you can make better choices, and more importantly, ask appropriate questions.

"If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong."
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  #68 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
I have never had the mentality of "teach me, show me, prove it". It's always been, "let me figure out how this works".

I would venture a guess that there is an extremely high correlation between people with your mindset and approach to learning,...and those who make it as traders.

Trading is not a career where an approach of "show me your system and then ill go make money" will ever work. The best you can hope for is to work with a mentor. But even then, a certain attitude and willingness to do their own work is required which some people simply do not have.

Diversification is the only free lunch

Last edited by DarkPoolTrading; August 22nd, 2014 at 03:43 AM.
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  #69 (permalink)
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Big Mike View Post
Until he creates a journal and starts taking people's advice and actually doing some real work on his trading, then I believe the evidence clearly shows he cannot be helped.

Mike


budfox View Post
Let me take a look at my journal.



Last edited by Thxo; August 22nd, 2014 at 04:39 AM.
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  #70 (permalink)
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addchild View Post
First Year reads:


The futures game, who wins, who loses and why. : tewles and jones

CME group risk management handbook.

Winner take all: gallacher

^ these books should at least get you to the point where you can make better choices, and more importantly, ask appropriate questions.

I'd also advise "Trading and Exchanges" by Larry Harris on market microstructure (try to find Indian edition for a reasonable price). If you do decide to focus on short-term trading, it will give you a better perspective on the players and how different they do business. It may also help you to decide what side you want to play on.


Last edited by isla; August 22nd, 2014 at 04:06 AM.
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