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Anyone profitably Trading with 1-4 Ticks Targets?
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Anyone profitably Trading with 1-4 Ticks Targets?

  #1 (permalink)
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Anyone profitably Trading with 1-4 Ticks Targets?

Hi there

Are there any profitable traders out there who place many trades per day using small targets (e.g. less than 4 ticks) and are willing to share what chart setups they use?

Would be most appreciated! Also any links to resources.

Thx, Chris

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
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This sounds like high frequency trading, which is more and more dominated by machines.

To compete in this game, you would need

- to have access to the exchange without paying commissions to your broker
- use (semi-)automated entries and exits
- have an ultra-low latency when connecting to the exchange (best bypass margin control as well)

I do not think that this is a profitable game for retail traders now (it was back in the Nineties, when algorithmic trading was still in its infant stages).

Trading for one to four ticks looks attractive to unsuspecting traders because

- they are undercapitalized and think they can participate in the game with a small account
- they are impatient and want to achieve results immediately

This is my opinion, but I would love somebody to answer the question and tell me that he is a profitable scalper who goes for 1 to 4 ticks and pays retail commissions.

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  #4 (permalink)
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Why go for 1 - 4 Ticks, when YM has say 10-15pips on offer most of the time.

Your occasional losers, will wipe out 10 profits in 1 go

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  #5 (permalink)
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You can generally reliably get 4 ticks out of the open one way or the other, but the others are right, there are days that the losers are gonna strip the winners. You need to be able to take advantage of things like what happened yesterday..... that's 1k from the 2 minute breakout..

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The issue with going after 4 ticks is the amount of play you have to give to GET the ticks. Basically just outside the ATR for the last few bars, that can be 8-10 ticks so you're going to have a negative risk/reward.

Just looking at today in the YM
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IMHO the key is staying out of the chop with some of thewizards methods and adxvma to see a stronger trend and a breakout of the dynamicsr indicator support/resistance (also from thewizard thread I think)

Like this opening volatility play, you need big winners to get rid of the nasties that come from the choppy days.
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Last edited by tracer888; July 2nd, 2014 at 04:56 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)
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The only advise I could give, is to never plan for the ideal situation!
I've seen it so many times, in trading but at work as well and in so many different industries all across.

We people have the tendency to plan for the perfect situation, the perfect project schedule, the perfect budget/expenses, holiday, wedding, you name it -> and more often than not, assume no mistakes at all.

Of course, it is very easy to plan for 1 tick per day, 20 days per month, 12 months per year
Take any instrument, let's say one that could be most convenient taking in consideration commission costs...
At my broker's commission rates, ZB@ECBOT would be such an example; high tick value of $31.25 and low round trip commission per contract at $2.94 -> that would give me a net profit of $28.31 per contract per tick.

Total year net profit from 1 contract would be $6,794.40 before tax; and since intraday margin is just $1,312.50 per contract, let's take 10 contracts on each trade and we quickly reach $67,944 per year EBIT (ad the cherry on the cake, with just $13,125 in the account!!)

All this sounds amazing on paper, plus the added bonus of spending the rest of day having fun with family and friends.
After all, 1 tick is nothing and we can be literally in and out of the market in less than 10min, right!?

But what if you make only 1 mistake, only 1! What would happen?
And what if you make 2 mistakes in a row? it is not that unlikely...

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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  #7 (permalink)
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Croni View Post
Hi there

Are there any profitable traders out there who place many trades per day using small targets (e.g. less than 4 ticks) and are willing to share what chart setups they use?

Would be most appreciated! Also any links to resources.

Thx, Chris

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  #8 (permalink)
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Sounds tempting until that huge, ugly, opposite candle goes the other way. Now it's time to be right how many times in a row to make up the deficit. Like betting even money horses... no cushion to be wrong. I thought the same not long ago, but as I continue to educate on this competition, it is essential to nail those 3-1 and 4-1 payoffs to absorb those losses that WILL come a knockin. It's crazy... 50-50 shot and how the price moves away from me too many times. Best of trades.

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  #9 (permalink)
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Croni View Post
Hi there

Are there any profitable traders out there who place many trades per day using small targets (e.g. less than 4 ticks) and are willing to share what chart setups they use?

Would be most appreciated! Also any links to resources.

Thx, Chris

Usually the market will give you more than 4 ticks even on small moves without retracing, anything less doesn't make much sense considering the commission ratio to profit and loss.

Honestly if commission were on a moving scale in proportion to profit then it would probably make more sense. Like if one trade where you make 50 dollars you pay 5 dollars in commission but in another trade you make 5 dollars you only have to pay 50 cents in commission.

To answer your question honestly I know there are a plethora of profitable traders who target 4 or less ticks on the ES/ZB and other bonds. They usually use the DOM and time/sales for ques on order flow.

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