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E-mini S&P 500 Overnight
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E-mini S&P 500 Overnight

  #1 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Hartford/Connecticut
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 16 since Feb 2014
Thanks: 8 given, 2 received

E-mini S&P 500 Overnight

I think I may have finally turned the corner. After years of struggling, I have been making money the last couple of weeks.

I work nights and would like to know any thoughts on trading the E-mini S&P over night. My goal would be just to make a point or 2 over night; seeing it as a bonus!

About my trading -
I am on Tradestation - I trade between 1-5 contracts with a max loss of $3,000 per day.
I use tick charts (250, 500, 750, 1,500, 2,000, 2,250, & 4,500)
I don't follow them all religiously (500, 1,500-2,000 being my main focus)
I have just found the more things that line up on different time lines, the stronger the signals.
I use an indicator for volume, for price, and for the type of trades (multiple contracts vs single contracts).
I enter my trades with a 3 - 5 point stop loss and a 2 - 5 point profit target.
I will move my profit target and stop loss in the right direction if things are going my way.
I patiently way to jump on board which ever way the money seems to be flowing.
My favorite strategy is to catch the dips on up and down trends. (I usually only do this with the direction of the trend).

Questions I'd like answered

Best tick charts to use?
What to look for?
Any information online?
What times to avoid?
Seems I should only trade the European overnight?
Is is possible to make a point or two consistently overnight or is it that much harder?

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  #2 (permalink)
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  #3 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Fort Worth, Texas
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: CTS T4
Broker/Data: Stage5
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Eric B's Avatar
 
Posts: 49 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 2 given, 15 received


ouch... 3k/day loss? That's huge, unless of course your account is like 6 figures. Also, you're cheating yourself - the math is not on your side via your stop/target allowances. If you patiently wait for good entries, you can both reduce the amount risked and flip that avoided risk into an increased profit.

As far as trading the overnight, I've noticed it's rather 'mechanical', in that it moves off of boundaries with much greater precision than the day session. Boundaries include things like the established balance high/low, a previous high/low (perhaps from the day session), and the value area high/low.

Take today in the ES for example - the overnight high was a tick below yesterday's high. The first pullback (00:30) only went what, 3 ticks beneath the low? After making a new high off that pullback reversal, it then channeled for a while (4:00-5:30) on an almost perfectly straight support line. For another example of a 'neat' overnight channel, look back to Mar 3's overnight session.

So again, very mechanical due to low volume -> mostly robots and foreigners trading at those hours. Again, it's just a different market in the overnight vs. the day. You may be suited to it better than the day, esp. if you're a night owl. Tick charts may not provide the same advantage they do in the day session, try out the 1/2 hr chart.

Beware that once the US sessions opens, there usually is some counter-auction or even outright reversal if the overnight session is overwhelmingly facing one direction. So you might want to close your position going into the open in this case - which is also something I've seen a lot, usually the overnight will fall a point or two on a flurry of activity in the 5-10 minutes leading up to the US open if it is up around .5% or more - just a guideline though.

Volume and activity pick up around 2 a.m., so you might find those hours a bit better to trade in.


Last edited by Eric B; March 5th, 2014 at 12:38 PM.
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  #4 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
pasadena
 
Futures Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninja
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 6 since Feb 2013
Thanks: 3 given, 2 received

Making money for a couple weeks doesn't make you consistent. You will only know if you're consistent after several months of trading.

Trades overnight generally follow activity in other markets. Make sure to be aware of the major economic reports as they'll provide more volatility, otherwise expect to trade from the outside in on most days. The median range for the overnight session (3am - 9:30am) is about 8 pts. With most of that occurring between 6am - 9:30am. 6am to 9:30am also sets up the US session, so you would be able to hold swing trades into that session as well.

I'd recommend trading forex if you're awake for the session crossing hours.

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