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Daytrading the Emini S&P 500!
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Daytrading the Emini S&P 500!

  #11 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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trendisyourfriend View Post
What is your expectation to win 3 ticks, 4 ticks, 5 ticks if you take into account 2 tick of slippage (1 at the entry and 1 at the exit) + commission at around $5 for a round trip?



Just trying to make $50 a day trading 1 contract. Lol not trying to make more until I can at least do that. So my goal is 4 ticks a day.

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  #12 (permalink)
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cj060896 View Post
Just trying to make $50 a day trading 1 contract. Lol not trying to make more until I can at least do that. So my goal is 4 ticks a day.

You are on the wrong path.

Read every post here:

https://futures.io/elite-circle/11125-ask-any-trading-question.html

Should be obvious after that and you can start thinking differently.

Mike

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  #13 (permalink)
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Shocked



Big Mike View Post
You are on the wrong path.

Read every post here:

https://futures.io/elite-circle/11125-ask-any-trading-question.html

Should be obvious after that and you can start thinking differently.

Mike

That the owner of this site would say I am wrong for a goal of just trying to get out of red (1st goal) and a goal of $50 a day. Never said I would stop if making more, will just be happy if I can make at least that. Your post is very vague and unhelpful so I have no idea where you are coming from. I do not have access to the link you provided...you need to be an "elite" member.

 
  #14 (permalink)
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cj060896 View Post
That the owner of this site would say I am wrong for a goal of just trying to get out of red (1st goal) and a goal of $50 a day. Never said I would stop if making more, will just be happy if I can make at least that. Your post is very vague and unhelpful so I have no idea where you are coming from. I do not have access to the link you provided...you need to be an "elite" member.

Big Mike was likely hinting at the fact that you're looking in all the wrong places to try and be profitable. Most notably that you're looking externally for indicators and chat rooms to make you profitable instead of looking at yourself and what really needs to be done to become a trader.

A few points to consider:
  • Most indicators are a derivative of 3 things: price, time, volume. Most indicators, arguably all, are lagging which means they tell you what has already happened. Who cares what already happened. A suggestion is to spend some time learning to interpret market structure and figure out what the market is trying to do instead of relying on indicators to do it for you. A good starting point would be to spend some time (weeks-months) using nothing but a naked price chart and volume
  • Stop size - You're asking people to recommend a specific stop size. Given the information you've provided there is absolutely no way anyone can advise on that and would be dangerous to do so. Your stop should be based on market structure. First, determine where your stop SHOULD be based on market structure when planning a trade,...if that stop location is too big given your risk parameters, you skip the trade. You dont take the trade anyway and just hope that your stop wont get hit even though its slap bang in the middle of the action
  • Profit size - You talk about reducing your profit targets. Have you heard of the saying 'Cut your losers short and let your winners run'? That's not just some folk tale. Maintaining a high win percentage is near impossible,....what makes the vast majority of traders profitable is going for larger profits than what they risk
  • Chat rooms - Again, you're looking for someone or something else to make you profitable. Firstly, most rooms are scams, secondly if you do find a good room they will likely not be calling trades but will instead be talking about structure, psychology, risk etc

So basically, you're looking in all the wrong places. Get rid of the indicators, get rid of the search for absolutes, start learning to interpret what the market is actually trying to do and trade accordingly while keeping risk:reward front and center.

You can either completely ignore this post and continue on your hunt for the holy grail, or you can give some thought to the fact that you've been doing this for several years without success and therefore something is missing, perhaps a different path is needed.

Diversification is the only free lunch
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  #15 (permalink)
The Bids are on the Left
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Big Mike was likely hinting at the fact that you're looking in all the wrong places to try and be profitable. Most notably that you're looking externally for indicators and chat rooms to make you profitable instead of looking at yourself and what really needs to be done to become a trader.

A few points to consider:
  • Most indicators are a derivative of 3 things: price, time, volume. Most indicators, arguably all, are lagging which means they tell you what has already happened. Who cares what already happened. A suggestion is to spend some time learning to interpret market structure and figure out what the market is trying to do instead of relying on indicators to do it for you. A good starting point would be to spend some time (weeks-months) using nothing but a naked price chart and volume
  • Stop size - You're asking people to recommend a specific stop size. Given the information you've provided there is absolutely no way anyone can advise on that and would be dangerous to do so. Your stop should be based on market structure. First, determine where your stop SHOULD be based on market structure when planning a trade,...if that stop location is too big given your risk parameters, you skip the trade. You dont take the trade anyway and just hope that your stop wont get hit even though its slap bang in the middle of the action
  • Profit size - You talk about reducing your profit targets. Have you heard of the saying 'Cut your losers short and let your winners run'? That's not just some folk tale. Maintaining a high win percentage is near impossible,....what makes the vast majority of traders profitable is going for larger profits than what they risk
  • Chat rooms - Again, you're looking for someone or something else to make you profitable. Firstly, most rooms are scams, secondly if you do find a good room they will likely not be calling trades but will instead be talking about structure, psychology, risk etc

So basically, you're looking in all the wrong places. Get rid of the indicators, get rid of the search for absolutes, start learning to interpret what the market is actually trying to do and trade accordingly while keeping risk:reward front and center.

You can either completely ignore this post and continue on your hunt for the holy grail, or you can give some thought to the fact that you've been doing this for several years without success and therefore something is missing, perhaps a different path is needed.

Eloquently stated. At some point during the process you do need to develope your own abilities to get some feel for the market.

 
  #16 (permalink)
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cj060896 View Post
Just trying to make $50 a day trading 1 contract. Lol not trying to make more until I can at least do that. So my goal is 4 ticks a day.

Easy on paper, impossible in real life
Try for yourself, and you will see...

I would trust what Big Mike is saying; been there, done that.

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
 
  #17 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Hartford/Connecticut
 
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DarkPoolTrading View Post
Big Mike was likely hinting at the fact that you're looking in all the wrong places to try and be profitable. Most notably that you're looking externally for indicators and chat rooms to make you profitable instead of looking at yourself and what really needs to be done to become a trader.

A few points to consider:
  • Most indicators are a derivative of 3 things: price, time, volume. Most indicators, arguably all, are lagging which means they tell you what has already happened. Who cares what already happened. A suggestion is to spend some time learning to interpret market structure and figure out what the market is trying to do instead of relying on indicators to do it for you. A good starting point would be to spend some time (weeks-months) using nothing but a naked price chart and volume
  • Stop size - You're asking people to recommend a specific stop size. Given the information you've provided there is absolutely no way anyone can advise on that and would be dangerous to do so. Your stop should be based on market structure. First, determine where your stop SHOULD be based on market structure when planning a trade,...if that stop location is too big given your risk parameters, you skip the trade. You dont take the trade anyway and just hope that your stop wont get hit even though its slap bang in the middle of the action
  • Profit size - You talk about reducing your profit targets. Have you heard of the saying 'Cut your losers short and let your winners run'? That's not just some folk tale. Maintaining a high win percentage is near impossible,....what makes the vast majority of traders profitable is going for larger profits than what they risk
  • Chat rooms - Again, you're looking for someone or something else to make you profitable. Firstly, most rooms are scams, secondly if you do find a good room they will likely not be calling trades but will instead be talking about structure, psychology, risk etc

So basically, you're looking in all the wrong places. Get rid of the indicators, get rid of the search for absolutes, start learning to interpret what the market is actually trying to do and trade accordingly while keeping risk:reward front and center.

You can either completely ignore this post and continue on your hunt for the holy grail, or you can give some thought to the fact that you've been doing this for several years without success and therefore something is missing, perhaps a different path is needed.

All makes sense and i appreciate the response and will take much of it into consideration. Yes I know I have been the problem and I am not looking for some holy grail. Was really just looking for what successful traders are using with there systems. I was hoping to incorporate some things (obviously some things would have to be adjusted to my trading as well. I have just read a lot of bull crap and had advice from people who don't make money, so I did not make money. These forums seem the only place where there are some traders that actually make money, so I was hoping to get an "inside look" to steer me in the right direction. Not a day goes by that I don't spend at least 4 hours researching the emini market and learning to day trade it.

I happen to respectfully and partially disagree with you. I think learning how profitable traders generally start their trading day can help me be a successful trader. One other thing, if there is a successful trader out there willing to work with me on Skype or in CT, I'd be more than happy to pay. There are just too many "fake" coaches out there for me to lose even more money on and lead me down the wrong path. This is my last shot and I have to make it work.

 
  #18 (permalink)
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>>... if there is a successful trader out there willing to work with me<<

Have you tried Al Brooks' Trading Webinar Room? For learning about market structure and price action, you cannot really go wrong. He is not a scammer and is devoted to help traders learn. Priceless.

Another invaluable price action resource is Mack's PATS YouTube site.

And you also have Adam Grimes free online trading course that is well worth your time. Unlike most other courses, Adam's has a strong emphasis on practical psychology. The Art & Science of Trading. As Adam stresses, drop what you already know and start learning afresh. Seems to well fit your stated needs, right?

Ref Better Indicators, I have had full set for more than a year and found the Better Momentum and Better Sinewave to be too distracting. Helps sometimes, but often confused my price action reading. But the Better ProAm is very useful, in particular with order flow analysis, to support price action setups. I use a 2000 tick bar chart.

Good luck.

Richard
Hong Kong

Last edited by RichardHK; February 18th, 2014 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Added Adam Grimes course.
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  #19 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
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Fadi View Post
Easy on paper, impossible in real life
Try for yourself, and you will see...

I would trust what Big Mike is saying; been there, done that.

Once again, totally unhelpful??? What do you suggest $25 trading 2 contracts? I have the money to trade over 20 contracts. Just trying to start small until I am not losing money.

 
  #20 (permalink)
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cj060896 View Post
Once again, totally unhelpful??? What do you suggest $25 trading 2 contracts? I have the money to trade over 20 contracts. Just trying to start small until I am not losing money.

With time you will learn that you cannot put a fixed target per day for yourself; you have to trade what the market gives you. For many days you will be constraint to just watch the price action all day, and on some others you would make $2,000+ in just few minutes.
If you come with this spirit of having to gain something each day, you will fall in the trap of overtrading, and sooner or later you will run your account to zero and below.

Moreover, there will be a 99% chance that your psychology takes over whenever you are near those 4 ticks of profit you are talking about, you will have the dilemma of taking the gain or just be patient and wait for more... It will play bad tricks to you!
On the opposite side, when you will be 4 ticks down, what will you do? close the trade and lose the work/money you did the previous day? Or wait for the price to regain your level and pray for an additional 4 tick move in your favour to reach your daily target?

The best is to forget your daily target thing all together, and just learn proper technical analysis and learn to buy at support and sell at resistance as much as possible... over and over again... and no matter the distance between those support and resistance areas you identify.

They could be 4 ticks apart, and they could be 10 points apart, this will depend on your strategy and time frame you define for yourself of course, but it won't matter as long as you execute properly!

Your current capital and net worth is absolutely irrelevant too, you could have 1 million to spare, it won't change the approach.
You start with 1x contract ONLY, and set a cumulative target for yourself, let's say $5,000 to start.
Then you would only increase position size to 2x contracts if you achieve those +$5k of profit on top of your million or whatever capital you have; and when you reach $15k for example of total profit you increase to 3x contracts, and so on...

If you reward yourself with an extra contract to trade after securing a certain amount of profit, you will train your subconscious mind to preserve capital, and that's the most important part of being a trader in my opinion.

Remember, trading is about generating capital, preserving capital, and repeating.

Most traders fail at the second step! You will see as you progress and get some more experience in this field, that it is relatively easy to generate money, and sometimes you even cash in a lot on a "lucky" day - but more often than not, you will give it back all on the second day if not before.

My advise to you is to start with learning proper technical analysis, in order to understand the price action, be able to spot the S/R levels, and so on... and this is available in books, ebooks, forums, webinars, websites, paid or free.

I often advice new traders to start with the free school at babypips: School of Pipsology | Learn Forex Trading.
It is targeting FOREX traders, but it won't matter at this stage, the information they share and the teaching they do on virtually every aspect of the trading business for retailers is worth gold and more!

Take and learn whatever they have to say, in the end, chart reading will be the same whether you trade currencies, stocks, futures, commodities, bonds, options, you name it...

The important is you really understand all what technical analysis is about, money management, position sizing, manipulations in the markets, correlations, news, etc... and then you apply to your ES trading, or I would personally recommend the NQ instead.

I hope I was a little bit more useful now; don't hesitate to revert back.

Cheers
Fadi

Successful people will do what unsuccessful people won't or can't do!
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