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Micro ES SP500 contract "coming" (E-Micro)
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Micro ES SP500 contract "coming" (E-Micro)

  #61 (permalink)
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  #62 (permalink)
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ZCars View Post
Dow cfd's and no commissions with a 1 pt spread. 500:1 leverage if you want it.

If you are outside the US and want to trade on an unregulated/decentralized market.

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  #63 (permalink)
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It is regulated, Mike. Might be concerns for bigger traders, although I believe they would idependently hedge large traders' positions I don't trade large sizes, just £5/ point o the Dow). I get instant execution on my trades and they've never tried to rob me, freeze the quotes etc, but you have to be selective when choosing. I think the arbitrage algos, the ability to counter or offset risk and the liquidity channels are so good now that the broker's risk as counterparty is far less than it used to be. I thought US citizens could open CFD accounts but not spread bet accounts? Maybe someone could confirm this?

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  #64 (permalink)
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ZCars View Post
I thought US citizens could open CFD accounts but not spread bet accounts? Maybe someone could confirm this?

You can IF you are a resident outside the US. They may be regulated but they are still over the couunter. If you have a problem, you can only discuss it with the broker that took the other side of your trade.

I think CFD's are ok for learning, but get off of them as soon as you feel comfortable.

Math. A gateway drug to reality.
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  #65 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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ZCars View Post
It is regulated, Mike. Might be concerns for bigger traders, although I believe they would idependently hedge large traders' positions I don't trade large sizes, just £5/ point o the Dow). I get instant execution on my trades and they've never tried to rob me, freeze the quotes etc, but you have to be selective when choosing. I think the arbitrage algos, the ability to counter or offset risk and the liquidity channels are so good now that the broker's risk as counterparty is far less than it used to be. I thought US citizens could open CFD accounts but not spread bet accounts? Maybe someone could confirm this?

Brokers that are not regulated and registered with the CFTC and NFA are not allowed to solicit and/or hold USA customers.

Most brokers in Europe, Asia and Australia that offer CFDs, Spread Betting, etc are not registered with the above regulators. Therefore, USA guys can not use these instruments. This is as far as I know, please conduct your own due diligence.

Matt Z
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Last edited by mattz; January 26th, 2016 at 03:43 AM.
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  #66 (permalink)
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Most brokers in Europe, Asia and Australia that offer CFDs, Spread Betting, etc are not registered with the above regulators. Therefore, USA guys can not use these instruments. This is as far as I know, please conduct your own due diligence.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.[/QUOTE

Yes, do you think the powerful futures exchanges in the US effectively lobby against legalising CFD trading, Matt? I guess they would lose tonnes of business.

I've never had a problem with the firms I've traded with and I find CFD's far more flexible than the fixed high leverage of futures contracts. But I'm a small fish.

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  #67 (permalink)
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ZCars View Post
Yes, do you think the powerful futures exchanges in the US effectively lobby against legalising CFD trading, Matt? I guess they would lose tonnes of business.

I've never had a problem with the firms I've traded with and I find CFD's far more flexible than the fixed high leverage of futures contracts. But I'm a small fish.

I am afraid it is not quite that simple. Not sure about the situation nowadays, but I know that prior to 2008 hedge funds used a lot of total-return swaps which essentially is exactly the same thing as a contract for difference (CFD). By using a TRS the hedge funds could essentially side-step regulatory oversight and enter into positions without affecting the market. However, by trading off-exchange you have counterparty risk in that the person on the other side of the swap may not be able to make a payment.

Now, imagine several financial institutions had exposure to Lehman Brothers via some TRS trades (not sure how big their TRS book was) and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly this bankruptcy places a lot of other financial institutions in difficulty since suddenly they are very unsure of the potential losses that need to be written off and this could lead to financial institutions requiring additional reserves. Thus, a situation that could most likely exacerbate a crash in the financial markets. If you investigate LTCM and the uncertainty other financial institutions had about their counterparty exposures during that collapse, you may begin to understand why this is such a big deal.

Several US-based managers also managed to avoid regulatory oversight with their hedge funds as well, i.e. they registered as advisors to an offshore management company which effectively managed the fund. In this example, not the fund, nor the manager, nor the investments were properly regulated and of course the widespread use of derivatives by hedge funds was blamed for the 2008 crash.

Thus it should be no surprise that the US government enacted strong regulation to neutralise the perceived threat to the economy. Whether or not that is correct is anyone guess.

With regards to trading CFDs vs futures, it is a no-brainer for me. I would always choose the least amount of counterparty risk since a broker bankruptcy costs you your entire account. A recent example is Alpari - I am sure you can find others as well. If you are willing to live with that risk, then CFDs may be right for you.

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  #68 (permalink)
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grausch View Post
I am afraid it is not quite that simple. Not sure about the situation nowadays, but I know that prior to 2008 hedge funds used a lot of total-return swaps which essentially is exactly the same thing as a contract for difference (CFD). By using a TRS the hedge funds could essentially side-step regulatory oversight and enter into positions without affecting the market. However, by trading off-exchange you have counterparty risk in that the person on the other side of the swap may not be able to make a payment.

Now, imagine several financial institutions had exposure to Lehman Brothers via some TRS trades (not sure how big their TRS book was) and Lehman goes bankrupt. Suddenly this bankruptcy places a lot of other financial institutions in difficulty since suddenly they are very unsure of the potential losses that need to be written off and this could lead to financial institutions requiring additional reserves. Thus, a situation that could most likely exacerbate a crash in the financial markets. If you investigate LTCM and the uncertainty other financial institutions had about their counterparty exposures during that collapse, you may begin to understand why this is such a big deal.

Several US-based managers also managed to avoid regulatory oversight with their hedge funds as well, i.e. they registered as advisors to an offshore management company which effectively managed the fund. In this example, not the fund, nor the manager, nor the investments were properly regulated and of course the widespread use of derivatives by hedge funds was blamed for the 2008 crash.

Thus it should be no surprise that the US government enacted strong regulation to neutralise the perceived threat to the economy. Whether or not that is correct is anyone guess.

With regards to trading CFDs vs futures, it is a no-brainer for me. I would always choose the least amount of counterparty risk since a broker bankruptcy costs you your entire account. A recent example is Alpari - I am sure you can find others as well. If you are willing to live with that risk, then CFDs may be right for you.

Interesting, thanks for the insight. I think I understand about OTC derivatives, but surely the banks still make trades and markets this way and always will? In the UK we have the FCS (financial compensation scheme) for retail investor's funds that are held by the broker in tier 1 UK banks. This means that you're covered up to £50,000 and the broker cannot touch client deposits (something that MF Global happily did). As far as I'm aware US citizens are not covered if a futures broker/ fcm goes under?

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  #69 (permalink)
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In the UK we have the FCS (financial compensation scheme) for retail investor's funds that are held by the broker in tier 1 UK banks.

Do you mean the FSCS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Services_Compensation_Scheme)?

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  #70 (permalink)
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Yes

http://www.fscs.org.uk/

Firm has to be FCA regulated (financial conduct authority) for the client to be covered.


Last edited by ZCars; January 26th, 2016 at 05:26 PM.
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