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Micro ES SP500 contract "coming" (E-Micro)
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Micro ES SP500 contract "coming" (E-Micro)

  #91 (permalink)
Elite Member
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any updates on whether or not the e-micro s&p500 will be a reality?

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  #92 (permalink)
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bojangle View Post
any updates on whether or not the e-micro s&p500 will be a reality?

Only in our dreams

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  #93 (permalink)
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bojangle View Post
any updates on whether or not the e-micro s&p500 will be a reality?


There was a time that the CME created a bunch of micro accounts, and they have been a non-event from a liquidity standpoint. Even if one was built, I don't think anyone could trade it with the same ease as the regular E-mini SP. BTW, I don't know all the guys who work at the CME exchange, but the few that I know, they never even heard of a smaller unit size.

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  #94 (permalink)
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bojangle View Post
any updates on whether or not the e-micro s&p500 will be a reality?

Yeah, like these other guys said. I doubt we're ever going to see an e-micro S&P. Of course, Osaka Nikkei Mini proves small sized stock index futures can be wildly popular. Maybe that's the problem. CME doesn't want to draw liquidity from their S&P Mini.

If you want to trade 24H S&P in a ~$20K notional contract size, check out Chicago's retail derivatives venue -- NADEX. $4 bid/ask spread and they charge $1 commission. DOW is better with $3 spread.

Oh wait...didn't realize you're from Canada. Geez...you can just trade CFDs! Doesn't Interactive Brokers Canada offer an S&P 500 CFD?. Well, that one's not 24H though, opens with Europe I think.


Last edited by Schultz15; February 3rd, 2017 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Saw OPs place of residence
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  #95 (permalink)
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Schultz15 View Post
Yeah, like these other guys said. I doubt we're ever going to see an e-micro S&P. Of course, Osaka Nikkei Mini proves small sized stock index futures can be wildly popular. Maybe that's the problem. CME doesn't want to draw liquidity from their S&P Mini.

If you want to trade 24H S&P in a ~$20K notional contract size, check out Chicago's retail derivatives venue -- NADEX. $4 bid/ask spread and they charge $1 commission. DOW is better with $3 spread.

Oh wait...didn't realize you're from Canada. Geez...you can just trade CFDs! Doesn't Interactive Brokers Canada offer an S&P 500 CFD?. Well, that one's not 24H though, opens with Europe I think.

IB doesn't allow Canadians to trade CFDs. Do CFDs 100% mirror the price of the S&P500 index (SPX)? A lot of them are saying they do, but when i see their charts, their prices often vary... how does that work?

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  #96 (permalink)
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bojangle View Post
IB doesn't allow Canadians to trade CFDs. Do CFDs 100% mirror the price of the S&P500 index (SPX)? A lot of them are saying they do, but when i see their charts, their prices often vary... how does that work?

I don't have much personal experience trading CFDs since US brokers are banned from offering them (though I have traded them occasionally through offshore brokers that will take US residents).

Regarding the prices being off, of course with stock index futures there is a premium which decays over time to the cash price at expiration. A bit different with CFDs in that they charge a small interest fee called a "swap" when the contract is "rolled over" to the next trading day. This creates cash price differences. Also, not being traded on a formal exchange like futures, there may be differences in liquidity and bid/ask spreads for the CFD depending on the broker you are trading with.

If interested in checking out CFDs, maybe start with Gain Capital (Forex.com) or Oanda. These are the only two retail forex/CFD brokers with market cap/cash reserves that meet CFTC regulatory standards here in the USA. They both offer CFD trading in Canada.

Good luck with your trading! ...Or if you have any luck to spare maybe send some my way


Last edited by Schultz15; February 8th, 2017 at 01:20 AM.
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  #97 (permalink)
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bojangle View Post
IB doesn't allow Canadians to trade CFDs. Do CFDs 100% mirror the price of the S&P500 index (SPX)? A lot of them are saying they do, but when i see their charts, their prices often vary... how does that work?


Schultz15 View Post
I don't have much personal experience trading CFDs since US brokers are banned from offering them (though I have traded them occasionally through offshore brokers that will take US residents).

Regarding the prices being off, of course with stock index futures there is a premium which decays over time to the cash price at expiration. A bit different with CFDs in that they charge a small interest fee called a "swap" when the contract is "rolled over" to the next trading day. This creates cash price differences. Also, not being traded on a formal exchange like futures, there may be differences in liquidity and bid/ask spreads for the CFD depending on the broker you are trading with.

If interested in checking out CFDs, maybe start with Gain Capital (Forex.com) or Oanda. These are the only two retail forex/CFD brokers with market cap/cash reserves that meet CFTC regulatory standards here in the USA. They both offer CFD trading in Canada.

Good luck with your trading! ...Or if you have any luck to spare maybe send some my way

If you look back in the thread, I said I'd call LMAX when I got to Istanbul. Well, I did and now I have an account.

Of note, I asked them what would happen if I moved back to the USA, and they said if I formed an offshore corporation, They would be happy to open an account in the corporation's name. So if anyone wants to try CFDs in the US (and probably Canada) that is one route, but setting up a corporation in The Bahamas, etc. might set you back 1 or 2 K.

If anyone has info on how to set up an offshore corporation, please share, I'll probably head back to the US at some point, and I think others would like to know as well.

I am still developing my trading platform which so far has been a bottleneck to more live trading. LMAX has a Sierra Chart interface, and FXCM (London) has a Ninja interface. They are kind of the exception though. Most CFD places just use MetaTrader or a browser window. There is also a LOT of difference in the inner workings of various CFD brokers. A whole other thread devoted to that could be opened, but suffice it to say that you need to do your homework. I like LMAX because it is an actual exchange providing firm liquidity.

I'm a long time NT user, and now that I started coding for NT8, I am really impressed with the new coding tools. So much better than NT7. I may move over to FXCM, or I may continue to hack away at Sierra. It's a work in progress.

So what is the experience like? I call it paintball. Just like any pimply kid can kill a thousand soldiers in a video game, but without proper training would probably get killed the first day in real live combat, raking up $$ in sim is pretty easy for me, but taking a hit on real CME contracts, especially if I scale in or out, can be psychologically hard to handle. With CFDs, it is more of a middle road. Yes it still sucks when I loose real money, but unless I'm really reckless, loss on several tenths of a CME contract is OK by me.

In re spreads and liquidity, etc., the spreads are wider, the commissions are little higher than most CME brokers, and the margins are about proportional to $500 per CME contract rates. Some CFD shops let you set up smaller accounts, but LMAX wants you to show up with at lest $5K or preferably $10K.

Scalping is not a good idea. Besides the wider spreads, CFDs are a derivative of a derivative, so there can be some "slop in the gears" on small timeframes. It's wild to watch the algo that provides the liquidity on a DoM though. It doesn't blindly follow the CME contract. Instead it's pretty wiley and seems to "know" when to hold prices lower or higher. At least that's my subjective experience. All that said, if your average hold time is about 15 minutes or more, this isn't such a problem.

Once I'm happy with my platform, I plan on getting a bunch of live trades under my belt so I have some personal statistics to work with. Then increase the size until it's something approaching a CME contract on each scale. Once I'm OK with that, it will be time to take advantage of the better spreads & commissions on CME trading.

After that I don't plan to use the account much, but I may use it for longer timeframe strategies, or maybe even real hedging. LMAX has a Turkish lira/USD CFD with pretty tight spreads. ($10K notional value) So far the lira has been going down, but if that turns around, I could go long a few contracts and lock in a good rate on my rent for the year.


**Also, in regards to my comment that LMAX is an exchange and earlier comments that it is not: LMAX is a Multilateral Trading Facility (MTF) [Wikipedia link] which is definitely not a traditional exchange, but from the previous link: "The investment firm operating an MTF has no discretion as to how interests may interact." Some have called MTFs an "exchange lite." Like I said, do your homework.

Edit: Ironically, guess what just showed up in my inbox from David Mercer, LMAX Exchange CEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTRmxsZhmwc


Last edited by bob7123; February 9th, 2017 at 06:01 PM.
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