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Alternatives to the US/Euro market times (such as the HSI)?
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Alternatives to the US/Euro market times (such as the HSI)?

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Melbourne Victoria/Australia
 
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Wagtail View Post
If you havent found anything suitable in four years of looking, then I am probably screwed. I have no experience with spot fx - it is too wild west for me (and not enough data available). I come from swing trading local stocks and then playing with US options for a while. I was lucky enough to do a little better than break even, despite a fearsome lack of knowledge which I am attempting to remedy. I have dabbled with this for many years while working full time running my own business, but without the time to concentrate on it. After the next few months will be a good time for me to give up the business and make the switch, if I am ever going to be able to do it.

I was thinking of trying to move into intraday trading on the 6E and DAX, but (subject to further research) my current thinking is to learn to swing trade properly first (thanks in part to Big Mike's recommendations), and then try to develop into intraday later as I gain experience. Swing trading works fine on the Australian market, and those normal business hours are much much better than toddlers dinner time to be glued to charts and screens. Swing trading is also more forgiving of momentary lapses of attention due to nappy explosions coinciding with projectile vomit all over the monitor and such wonders of parenting.

I will certainly check out the CME site and once I get it together I will probably post a journal on the forum to keep me honest..... nah - just to get tips from people who actually know what they are doing actually Let me know if you find that perfect instrument....


LOL have faith...The big problem for me is keeping a mind set that defies change. I use to have one when I worked full time but I think the young toddler I care for has given me scatter brains which makes for a very difficult trading journey.

Swing trading is terrific but I found it too taxing observing a dozen instruments all through the day into the night. I was using the 30 minute tf and trading Cfds.

Intra day is my goal too and suits my personality. However as you mention it's just too difficult to concentrate and play mr mom at the same time.

I'm also liking the Al Brooks style of trading, check him out, some of his stuff is floating around on here and his style for scalping is what I'm now trying to emulate, although the whole DOM thing is sure to create an extra layer of frustration.

Hence why I'm seeking a micro contract to keep my losses minimal.
Spot FX is OK, I just dislike all the broker driven platforms. NT feels much nicer from my limited use of it in demo mode.

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  #12 (permalink)
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Well I'm in shanghai and in the same boat as you guys. I do however lack a solid connection for intraday trading so after two ISPs and a dozen emails to NT and AMP I've thrown in the towel.

Aft two years of staring at DOMs from every Asian and European market going I can tell you this:

Forget the HSI unless you can get a CQG data feed for it, I couldn't. Same with the Kospi. Both have extortionately high margins. The MHI is fine for live fire practice but commission drag will kill you.

Forget the NK225, unless you like staring at nothing until you turn your head and it sweeps five levels off the offer.

The TW is ok, but I gave up with NT and continuous contracts...

The SPI is dead as are the Aussie STIR futures, unless you spread in which case you'll need a sleeping beside your work station.

The DAX, FESX, CL, and GOLD all come alive about the same time. Although you need to know these markets well before trading fulltime and your not going to be able to trade them anyway due to the family commitments, but they're my favorites.

If I were you, I'd either try pairs trading Aussie stocks, or swing trade EOD, which is what I'm now doing until I get back to a fast fibre connection to civilization. I don't even pick the trades anymore, but subscribe to a service, cheaper than all that data.

We are limited here in Asia, unless you're in Prop, working from home.

XS

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  #13 (permalink)
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well how about dollar denominated nikkei225 contracts on GLOBEX (NKD). i get free real-time data in Interactive but can't get historical data into ninjatrader. but it seems quite tradable. tick size is 5 with point value 5. i wish i could load it to ninjatrader and look at it a little closer.

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  #14 (permalink)
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Quoting 
The SPI is dead as are the Aussie STIR futures, unless you spread in which case you'll need a sleeping beside your work station.

The DAX, FESX, CL, and GOLD all come alive about the same time. Although you need to know these markets well before trading fulltime and your not going to be able to trade them anyway due to the family commitments, but they're my favorites.

If I were you, I'd either try pairs trading Aussie stocks, or swing trade EOD, which is what I'm now doing until I get back to a fast fibre connection to civilization. I don't even pick the trades anymore, but subscribe to a service, cheaper than all that data.

We are limited here in Asia, unless you're in Prop, working from home.

XS

Hi Xiaosi

I found the synthetic variant of the SPI, ( AUS200 ) to be very volatile especially during the first hour or two and then again after lunch. Does the real instrument not behave in the same way ?
Also does IB offer a free live data feed or do you need to pay ?

I also tried some stocks like CBA, NCM, BHP and Suncorp. I found that they all tend to gap up or down significantly on the open and then drift sideways. Once again on a CFD platform.
You sure as hell wouldn't want to be trapped in a trade on the close, the following morning could be rather painful. Commissions were also horrendous when compared to Indices or currencies.

I've had some good swing trades with GOLD it does behave like a jack in the box though. It likes to begin its move around 3.00pm. When all the traders head off to pick up the kids from school , GOLD springs to life so it seems.

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  #15 (permalink)
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Melba swing View Post
Hi Xiaosi

I found the synthetic variant of the SPI, ( AUS200 ) to be very volatile especially during the first hour or two and then again after lunch. Does the real instrument not behave in the same way ?
Also does IB offer a free live data feed or do you need to pay ?

I also tried some stocks like CBA, NCM, BHP and Suncorp. I found that they all tend to gap up or down significantly on the open and then drift sideways. Once again on a CFD platform.
You sure as hell wouldn't want to be trapped in a trade on the close, the following morning could be rather painful. Commissions were also horrendous when compared to Indices or currencies.

I've had some good swing trades with GOLD it does behave like a jack in the box though. It likes to begin its move around 3.00pm. When all the traders head off to pick up the kids from school , GOLD springs to life so it seems.

IB offer free live data, though by all accounts their tick data is bundled into packets that make it essentially useless for intraday trading. I dont fully understand this yet, but I have found it noted a number of times on this forum, and other sites. Their data is perfectly suitable for swing trading though

I guess I should add, there is a minimum monthly transaction requirement, otherwise a fee is charged, though I think it is only $10.

The spread on CFD's is shocking from what I have seen. Commissions are much better on IB than on the local Aussie broker sites ( not sure about CFD's though as I have never used them).

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  #16 (permalink)
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xiaosi View Post
Well I'm in shanghai and in the same boat as you guys. I do however lack a solid connection for intraday trading so after two ISPs and a dozen emails to NT and AMP I've thrown in the towel.

Aft two years of staring at DOMs from every Asian and European market going I can tell you this:

Forget the HSI unless you can get a CQG data feed for it, I couldn't. Same with the Kospi. Both have extortionately high margins. The MHI is fine for live fire practice but commission drag will kill you.

Forget the NK225, unless you like staring at nothing until you turn your head and it sweeps five levels off the offer.

The TW is ok, but I gave up with NT and continuous contracts...

The SPI is dead as are the Aussie STIR futures, unless you spread in which case you'll need a sleeping beside your work station.

The DAX, FESX, CL, and GOLD all come alive about the same time. Although you need to know these markets well before trading fulltime and your not going to be able to trade them anyway due to the family commitments, but they're my favorites.

If I were you, I'd either try pairs trading Aussie stocks, or swing trade EOD, which is what I'm now doing until I get back to a fast fibre connection to civilization. I don't even pick the trades anymore, but subscribe to a service, cheaper than all that data.

We are limited here in Asia, unless you're in Prop, working from home.

XS

Thanks Xiaosi,

Great summery of our options down here

Yes, I started looking at the DAX and the 6E, but the time zone.....

I have been thinking of starting with swing trading, either as you suggested, EOD on the US markets, and also business hours on the Australian markets. I have previously had some small success with swinging Aussie stocks, thug I had no real knowledge and was getting killed on commissions through ETrade. I gave it up as not worth the risk, but I hadnt learnt anything regarding money/risk management and was using small amounts and no leverage. I ended up averaging 2% a month, but gave it up when I got busy at work. Now I am trying to learn and do it properly.

I am curious, (if you are willing to share) what is the name of the service you use, and how have they been doing for you (percentage return on capital at risk)? Would you recommend them? It would be great to have something to use to start from again.

Pairs trading is a very good suggestion. Not something I am familiar with, but I will put it on my list of things to learn about. Any tips are always welcome

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  #17 (permalink)
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Melba swing View Post
Hi Xiaosi

Also does IB offer a free live data feed or do you need to pay ?

Hey Melba,

Mirus Futures offer free zen fire data if you meet their minimum trades (not hard to do). They also have stupidly low intraday margins which I would hope no one actually takes advantage of unless they are really really good. I think their data feed is good, quite a few people seem to use it. It is a US company and only trades US and some Euro futures from memory. Obviously we still have the time zone problem and I need more data (Aussie etc).

IB give you 100 instruments free, then you have to start paying, but have almost anything I have ever heard of or imagined.

There are probably a few others in the states who do the free data thing.

I had a guy who works for Commsec telling me how good their data feed was the other day, but I wasnt really listening and am not sure if it is actually a good feed and can be used for futures or not. Their commissions are more akin to rape, but if you get your volumes up significantly they get a little less offensive and you can negotiate better if you become one of their high value clients (lots of trades - they dont care how profitable or wealthy you are, just how often you trade). On Aussie stocks at volme without negotiating lower they offer .12% comission against IB at .08%.

There are so many reasons trading the Australian markets sucks....

PS: what about swinging the SPI, ever tried it?

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  #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the feedback blokes.

CFD spread is ok, commission was the killer for the size I was trading. If you have the starting capital to swing trade stocks then that is probably the best option. No leverage is a good thing but what will you do in a bear market ?

Most tend to use CFDs for shorting but then you have the leverage, high commission thing going on again.

I will most likely begin trading with Mirus because of their low entry level criteria which makes the transition from broker spot fx to futures financially viable.

With the synthetic SPI the spread widens to 4 points after 4.00pm AEST and volatility dries right up so I never chanced it. I think best swing is to catch a potential trend day ( gap open and reversal) and hold to the close if you can stomach that.

Best bet seems to be trading London/US overlap, though definitely not preferred choice I will be building a plan around that.

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  #19 (permalink)
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Melba swing View Post
Thanks for all the feedback blokes.

CFD spread is ok, commission was the killer for the size I was trading. If you have the starting capital to swing trade stocks then that is probably the best option. No leverage is a good thing but what will you do in a bear market ?

Most tend to use CFDs for shorting but then you have the leverage, high commission thing going on again.

I will most likely begin trading with Mirus because of their low entry level criteria which makes the transition from broker spot fx to futures financially viable.

With the synthetic SPI the spread widens to 4 points after 4.00pm AEST and volatility dries right up so I never chanced it. I think best swing is to catch a potential trend day ( gap open and reversal) and hold to the close if you can stomach that.

Best bet seems to be trading London/US overlap, though definitely not preferred choice I will be building a plan around that.

Melba, make sure you watch Big Mike's introductory webinar.
https://futures.io/webinars/jan14_2012/where_to_start_part_1/

He has some fantastic information about suitable instruments and the capital they require, specifically about spot fx and futures and the transition. The mini Euro M6E maybe the vehicle you are looking for to make that transition ($1.25/tick)..... (after watching the webinar, I intend to look into it as well, still probably for swing trading, but to get practice with real money, just not very much of it. I dont think you make much , but if you can prove a system to yourself without massive risk and losses, then you can always add contracts or upgrade to the 6E once you are ready).

And while I am very green and not really experienced enough to give advice - please dont start trading the full futures with a $500 margin (Mike has more to say along these lines too...).

I too am thinking the London/US overlap could be the time most viable - after the kids are in bed, but early enough that we can still catch some sleep before they wake

As for swing trading the stocks, not being able to short was a problem for me when I tried it before (probably lucky I didnt know about CFD's then, as I was very dangerously uninformed). It has led me to start looking at options and considering the possibility of using calls and puts to get both leverage and the ability to short without having the high commissions and dodginess of CFDs. Of course, it is options in the States that are the most useful, but I am also looking at just using the last hour of their market (our 5- 6 am) to place my trades and if I am swing trading then that should be ok. Not quite sure yet if this is a terrible idea (the options), but if you pick the correct strike and expiry you can pay pretty much nothing for time, thereby avoiding one of the larger potential difficulties inherent in options. Just got to make sure the volume and open interest is there (which is generally fine for the large US stocks and indexes).

I subscribed to Motley Fool Options service about 6 months ago to learn more about options and have been placing some small trades in accordance with their suggestions in order to learn how it all works. Their focus is most certainly not on trading per se, but on using options to complement your investment portfolio and they use long term strategies. It is not what I am looking for, but has been useful experience and a good place to learn more about options and some of their common uses. They go more for the sell options and profit (in a small way) from time decay, but the available info is good, and I find it easier to process information once I am actually putting it to use.

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  #20 (permalink)
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Hey Wagtail,

Yes I have watched that webinar its very good. I have put my name down for the upcoming Al brooks webinar on our Wed morning live at 6.30 am our time. See if you can make that one. I seem to have a similar mind set too how he trades so I like what he does.

Totally agree with you on the micro contract it has always been my intention even though it doesn't look very liquid compared to others.

Kids in bed is the only way to go

Options I am not familiar with at all. I know about the put, call and strike price etc but never traded them. Technically a whole new ball game, perhaps too much to take on a wide variety of trading instruments early on in development before being consistently profitable in one instrument.
Be very cautious of that.

I get everyone's free newsletter including the fool, money morning and the Bull. I personally don't believe in anyones signal service. I have been a paid member of a couple of different trading rooms and at certain stages you would make a killing by just doing the total opposite of their call.

I think their interest lies in their own financial gain not really yours or mine. Best to work it out for one's self as that way you will have confidence behind your trade selections instead of blaming others for poor choices.

I think that I'm improving in my game plans however still lacking emotional strength, we all have an achilles heel and the quest is to rectify these in order to move forward.

While making enough money to earn our keep at home is typically the long term goal, I don't ever think that far ahead as it's not reality at this stage.

Try and focus on one game plan and get good at it. I did this with swing trading only to find it was doing my head in watching price all around the clock including in the middle of the night when a price alarm would go off. I knew that I could not pursue that long term so I stopped right there.

Now I'm focussing on the 5 min plan, well trying to put one together anyhow.....

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