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ES building account from1to12Lots30weeks
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ES building account from1to12Lots30weeks

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Greensboro NC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Favorite Futures: ES TF CL
 
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Jack22 View Post
I guess since we are talking the theoretical ideal situation, then yes, I partially agree--you would keep doubling until you were getting partial fills, the market was moving by you all together, or you were, yourself, moving the market (yea, I wish lol), but if you had a system to do what you want in your excel sheet, on the ES you would definitely not stop at 12 contracts, you would probably go to 200-400 and then think about more advanced ways to enter in the market (a non ninja platform makes that easier), or at least that's how I see it. I don't know what you mean by preserve capital because I am assuming you are risking the same amount per contract, so I don't really see how that comes into play if you have a winning system.

If you have a winning system you don't cap how much you can make because you know at some point your system will most likely not work as it once did and therefore you should capitalize when the "getting is good"...that is why a lot of automated trading systems (this is just an example, I understand discretionary is adaptable, so please don't get caught up on this too much, but the general idea of changing market conditions) I have seen some "big boys" use only run them for part of the year--they run them, make lots of money, take some loss and then stop trading that system and then move onto the next, or at least that is what we have seen a lot of automated guys doing, successfully (I work for a large company that part of our business is performing advisory services for those type of shops).

I like @josh's advice...stop the spreadsheets and work on your consistent mental implementation game

Well put again Jack.

moving the market I never have this thought bc its not realistic for majority referring to ES only.But it does make one smile thinking about it

What I meant by preserving capitol, one might want to build a skyscraper into the clouds but most at some point, they look off the top floor and say, I think I 'll maintain now(reasons vary from person to person why)

@josh I wont argue with his info, he knows...

point I was making was, who thinks one can average 4.5 points a week with all the right parameters in place. Majority must say No bc of no responses and the ones that would say yes, no response,,,, so its a dead topic now

Thank you Jack and Josh for your replies
Happy Trading to you both

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  #12 (permalink)
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Futures Experience: Master
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This is most certainly possible for a well experienced trader. But the thing to note is, you can't just try and get two points and walk away for the day everyday. You need to trade the market well and not be concerned with your PnL. As I always say, the moment you stop and stare at your PnL, you become emotional. You obviously need to have some sort of hard stop for the day as well which should be a certain number of losing trades. I have a 3 loser in a row rule personally. There's no reason to have more losers than that per day unless you're a scalper or something.

I'd recommend reviewing your progress at day's end but looking at your entries vs. your plan and evaluate what percentage did you capture of the day's opportunity (range). Staring at PnL is a retail flaw that I recommend no one do until the session is done. You know what your risk is and if you have your hard stop hit (whatever amount of trades), you walk away and come back the next day. Spend the rest of the day reviewing everything. I hope I'm not getting off track but its a crucial element in your trading growth.

When evaluating your performance at the end of the day/week/month, you would continue to build size based on the risk you're willing to accept. Example being 3% of account equity. Do not think about how many contracts you're trading either, look at it this way, your business is growing so you must take on more inventory to satisfy the demand (growing capital). Fund managers do the exact same thing. Why should anyone do it differently? Many have issues increasing position size simply because they're thinking about it. That is in the same light as staring at account equity/PnL all day.

Hope that helps. Trading shouldn't be a psychological battle yet it so often is because people let it become that way. Just look at it as a business and pay yourself when you do well.

Cheers,
PB

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  #13 (permalink)
in a meditative state...
Portugal
 
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Personally I only add 1 contract every $10k.

My primarily concern has always been losses.
True, at the beginning I built everything based on 8 ticks profit per day which looked pretty simple to achieve but ended up being a very, very big problem. The 8 ticks expected profit ended up being a 8, 12, 16 ticks loss.

Focus on the losses, not the profits.
What will you do when your 4.5pts profit turn into a loss?

If I become half a percent smarter each year, I'll be a genius by the time I die
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  #14 (permalink)
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@arnie

Thanks for your reply

Without getting micro technical, IMO 4.5 pts is doable, now increasing size I was not exact with spreadsheet bc increasing contracts has to still coincide with one's account size

-Always trade contract size per capitol-so you live to trade another day
-Manage Risk to Reward even on flips
-Always trade to levels high or Low and analyze probability of PA going to these targets while trade is in progress
-Understand ES rotation, IMO today rotation was not normal we moved many handles more than normal before retrace
-If a trade sets up, take it and trade it, dont exit unless your at levels(targets) that make the probability of it not continuing in your favor(key levels) this will generate way more than a few pts if you trade accordingly this will offset the small losses on the wrong calls and still net pts to your account

Everyone mentions Losses, they do and will occur but IMO the main reason that traders get killed is over leverage or they dont understand key levels and let price run against them. So one has to play the odds in their favor. Its a mental game after the emotional game.

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  #15 (permalink)
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update-fellow trader who inspired me to write this question, it was more of a statement to everyone. Remember the Movie Waterboy quote "YOU CAN DO IT"

he took on the challenge just for giggles and tripled his account in last 11 weeks so it is doable, but you have to have proven reliable system. He also has the word Advanced hooked to his name where mine reads None. Few years back I thought I was intermidate, after a little thought I figured None suited me better

Happy Trading to All and Best Wishes
R

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  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Denver Colorado
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja trader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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Posts: 110 since May 2011
Thanks: 104 given, 354 received

I am not the best trader and I don't have the best systems, and I don't have all the answers! I do know it is possible to be a consistent trader with work and the right mindset. I think having the capital to trade a large amount of contracts and the ability to trade your rules with the increased size are two different things....

I built this spread sheet to convince me that with whatever amount of ticks "I think" I can earn on an average day/week/month, eventually I could earn what ever yearly income I wanted when I could "Handel" trading the increased amount of contracts...Granted this is always showing what a perfect world in trading could give, so I just try and do 60-70% of what I see in the spread sheet and I feel good when things go in that direction....

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