Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ? - Emini Index Futures Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?
Updated: Views / Replies:7,868 / 18
Created: by trendisyourfriend Attachments:0

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 90,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors Ė all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you donít need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?

  #11 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Oslo, Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Lornz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,198 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 500 given, 1,235 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
I would guess many are following this path of tracking HH HL's and LL LH's as they are easily recognizable. This is a pattern that stands out. But if your common sense tells you 50% is probably near reality then the prospect of making at least 2:1 in terms of risk/reward is pretty slim and subject to some variance. Is there a better way to track price without this constraint ?

Well, only the LOD and HOD are the same for everyone... HH/HL & LL/LH are quite different on time/tick/range/volume charts....

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Lornz for this post:
 
  #12 (permalink)
Urban Samurai
Chicago IL
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja, MT4,TOS, SC, Matlab
Broker/Data: CQG, AMP, MB, DTN
Favorite Futures: E/U, G/U
 
forrestang's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,039 since Jun 2010
Thanks: 226 given, 688 received


Lornz View Post
Well, only the LOD and HOD are the same for everyone... HH/HL & LL/LH are quite different on time/price/volume charts....

True. I think if one can come up with a way to specifically define the TimeFrame of that HH/LL, then it would be easier to track.

Reply With Quote
 
  #13 (permalink)
Membership Revoked
Oslo, Norway
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Favorite Futures: CL
 
Lornz's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,198 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 500 given, 1,235 received



forrestang View Post
True. I think if one can come up with a way to specifically define the TimeFrame of that HH/LL, then it would be easier to track.

That's why I prefer to use charts based on price ranges, easier to spot reversals etc..

Reply With Quote
 
  #14 (permalink)
Logician
Chicago, IL/USA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: CTS T4/Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
zer0's Avatar
 
Posts: 139 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 49 given, 186 received

Agree. Range bars provide a much cleaner and clearer view of your market.


Lornz View Post
That's why I prefer to use charts based on price ranges, easier to spot reversals etc..


Reply With Quote
 
  #15 (permalink)
Elite Member
UK
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: -
 
Posts: 155 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 74 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?

I look at HH's or LL's as a probe to test if the current value area still hold but without the overall context of what is the fair price of the moment these HH's or LL's on any given timeframe appear to produce unreliable signals. What do you think ? are there any statistics to back this, i mean if a HH is made have we more chance to see another HH or is it just 50/50 ?

here's a tip;

Under normal market conditions, using HH's / HL's / LL's / LH's in the conventional sense is going to cause you more problems than it solves. In ordinary conditions, try looking for unconventional price action as a framework for your trades. A simple explanation behind this is that swing highs/lows, and what type of orders will be resting there (if any), are easy to spot - and order clusters act like a magnet for price if underlying conditions are static.

In extra-ordinary market conditions, like for example these past two days, conventional price action can work very well. An even simpler explanation behind this is that when the sh!t is hitting the fan, the natural reaction of most short term speculators is to sit on the sidelines... "it's too choppy", or "I'll wait until the reaction is over", whatever. In these circumstances, conventional price action often yields excellent rewards.


so:

ordinary conditions => unconventional price action
extraordinary conditions => conventional price action

hth

Reply With Quote
 
  #16 (permalink)
Elite Member
Germany
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Favorite Futures: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
 
TheSeeker's Avatar
 
Posts: 123 since Dec 2010
Thanks: 64 given, 65 received

Looking for "unconventional price action" ... can you be more specific ?

I think that looking for the typical HH+HL respective LL+LH sequence to define trend makes a lot of sense, however, I'd always make sure that price has balanced a bit before a new sequence starts.

Cjbooth's 6E method is all about that stuff, I believe.

Reply With Quote
 
  #17 (permalink)
Elite Member
UK
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: -
 
Posts: 155 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 12 given, 74 received


TheSeeker View Post
Looking for "unconventional price action" ... can you be more specific ?

I think that looking for the typical HH+HL respective LL+LH sequence to define trend makes a lot of sense, however, I'd always make sure that price has balanced a bit before a new sequence starts.

Cjbooth's 6E method is all about that stuff, I believe.

unconventional => the opposite to conventional wisdom.

sorry I can't be any more explicit.

Reply With Quote
 
  #18 (permalink)
Elite Member
Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 158 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 27 given, 34 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
That's a good point as not all HH or LL are equals. But how do you define the context ?

context is where price is in relation to where it's been. looking at price now within the picture of where it's been. determining the important, key areas to those timeframes and trading at them and in-between them, reading the strength/weakness of the market, coming up with ideas to trade.

looking at higher time frames and plotting key levels to them - making a roadmap for intraday trading - and trading in a smaller timeframe within that picture.

i trade the 100k volume chart and the 405 min using the 10k volume chart, at important levels to the higher timeframes. but i also trade in-between these timeframe's areas using volume profile s/r + 10k reference (HHs, HL, etc.).

say if price is in a downtrend in the 100k, the market just hit an important support and price is now heading higher, if there is a good chance of price hitting a level that is 7 points higher, then i know that longs have higher probabilities until that level is hit. BUT the 10k could start to show that sellers are coming in by not making higher-highs anymore... doesn't mean it will go down, but it means that sellers are active enough to stop the HH pattern and the market could turn, failing to hit that targeted level, displaying weakness in buying power. that topping action in the 10k would be the equivalent of a turn in the 100k. what pattern IT COULD be making in the 100k, i use that for a trade idea - this is trading price in relation to where it has been, what it has done.


i don't think it's possible to trade one timeframe (this is what i'm calling it, but i'm sure there are many names for it).


i think people say AHG doesn't work, like they say all systems don't work, because they don't understand that it is never a guarantee, never certain. you got to cut the losers short and allow the winners to run. i'm never going to have 100% accuracy and neither will anyone else... it's impossible. you can't enter when a bar's close is above the previous bar's high... you're taking too much risk.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to bojangle for this post:
 
  #19 (permalink)
Elite Member
Canada
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 158 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 27 given, 34 received


bojangle View Post
i don't think it's possible to trade one timeframe (this is what i'm calling it, but i'm sure there are many names for it).

i'm wrong in saying this. it is possible, but i would be significantly reducing the probabilities i could easily have on my side if i were trading within the context of higher timeframe action. it's about probabilities.

Reply With Quote

Reply



futures io > > > > Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)

Jigsaw Trading: TBA

Elite only

FuturesTrader71: TBA

Elite only

NinjaTrader: TBA

Jan 18

RandBots: TBA

Jan 23

GFF Brokers & CME Group: Futures & Bitcoin

Elite only

Adam Grimes: TBA

Elite only

Ran Aroussi: TBA

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
would like 3 good market profile trading rooms to choose fro anniebee321 Trading Reviews and Vendors 23 July 10th, 2011 11:35 AM
Define user variables to hold key levels generated by Market Profile trendisyourfriend Investor/RT 5 May 2nd, 2011 07:51 PM
AR01 Market Structure Basics AR01 Trading Journals 23 February 16th, 2011 06:10 AM
Can anyone recommend any good books on the topics of market profile and auction theor ntsst3 Traders Hideout 3 May 28th, 2010 11:06 AM
HH HL Higher highs, Higher lows emini_Holy_Grail Traders Hideout 3 January 22nd, 2010 05:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 PM.

Copyright © 2017 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts
Page generated 2017-12-13 in 0.13 seconds with 19 queries on phoenix via your IP 54.90.92.204