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Side Income --> "Pushing the Envelope"


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Side Income --> "Pushing the Envelope"

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  #1 (permalink)
jvolm
Minneapolis, MN USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 5 given, 3 received

I may be in a tad different situation than some members, but perhaps some could shed some light...

Right now, I am 32 years old with the goal of being financially independent in 15 years or less. I currently have most of my investments in very low cost index funds.

My goal with trading the ES/NQ minis/micros would be to "push the envelope" seeking higher returns with a basket of my investment capital that I would then funnel the returns back into my long-term buy and hold type investments.

The rub is, I personally do not have the ability to go in super depth with the strategies and learning them being I own my own business and have two young kids, etc.

So, I actually would be looking at utilizing the dreaded "alert service" or "live feeds" that are out there...albeit most of them scams I would think, but perhaps there are a couple that are worthy?

I have looked into a great deal of courses, etc and I feel strongly that trading futures COULD BE the income stream I am looking for as laid out above...again, the problem being that I literally need to follow along i.e. piggy-backjng trades until I would be able to do so on my own.

So, I would really appreciate brutal honesty on any resources that would fit what I am looking for, or if this is this just too much "pie in the sky" thinking on my part?

Services I have looked into thus far include:
- AdamMancini4 on Twitter (he releases a daily plan)
- SimplerTrading.com's Joe Rokop
- MyStrategicForecast
- TradeOutLoud.com
- Al Brooks

Thank you so much for any help!!

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  #2 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
 
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jvolm View Post
I may be in a tad different situation than some members, but perhaps some could shed some light...

Right now, I am 32 years old with the goal of being financially independent in 15 years or less. I currently have most of my investments in very low cost index funds.

My goal with trading the ES/NQ minis/micros would be to "push the envelope" seeking higher returns with a basket of my investment capital that I would then funnel the returns back into my long-term buy and hold type investments.

The rub is, I personally do not have the ability to go in super depth with the strategies and learning them being I own my own business and have two young kids, etc.

So, I actually would be looking at utilizing the dreaded "alert service" or "live feeds" that are out there...albeit most of them scams I would think, but perhaps there are a couple that are worthy?

I have looked into a great deal of courses, etc and I feel strongly that trading futures COULD BE the income stream I am looking for as laid out above...again, the problem being that I literally need to follow along i.e. piggy-backjng trades until I would be able to do so on my own.

So, I would really appreciate brutal honesty on any resources that would fit what I am looking for, or if this is this just too much "pie in the sky" thinking on my part?

Services I have looked into thus far include:
- AdamMancini4 on Twitter (he releases a daily plan)
- SimplerTrading.com's Joe Rokop
- MyStrategicForecast
- TradeOutLoud.com
- Al Brooks

Thank you so much for any help!!

Welcome to futures.io!

Congrats on actually asking some tough questions BEFORE you jump into it.

Most trading rooms, signal services and education are absolute garbage (or outright scams), and probably will not get you where you want to go. My motto "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" will save you $$$ if you follow it.

If you decide to go with any paid service, ask for some verification that the person/group actually trades. You'll find very few, if any, who share this info. That is because either 1) they do not trade or 2) they trade, but do not make money from trading (they make money from selling their services). They'll make up all sorts of excuses for not sharing trading statements. One group on your list asked my friend for a "police clearance" before turning over trading records. When asked what that was, the vendor ghosted my friend, likely saving my friend a lot of money. (edit: a police clearance is a document from your local police that states you have no criminal record. I had never heard of it until my friend mentioned it.)

Next realize that making trading an "income stream" is not easy at all. Just search some of the famous futures traders out there (Jim Simons, John Henry, etc.) You will see they have a nice long track record, but they have had significant drawdowns along the way. Sometimes your hoped for income stream will become a (hopefully temporary) river of losses for you. Could you handle 3-6 months of losses, and a >20% drawdown, in the hopes that things will turn around for you? Most people can't, and they end up quitting at the worst time.

All that said, you CAN be successful at trading, but IMO you have to spend time and effort to get there. You could go it alone and learn to trade. Or you could invest with a professional Commodity Trading Advisor (https://www.iasg.com/ has track records).

If I was to pick a trading room or signal service, I'd try it with limited capital (maybe trade the MES) and see how I did after a month. Most importantly, I'd compare my actual results to what the signal provider shows. But I'd plan on losing money for this "test."

There are some signal services out there, but even that is tough to navigate. There is a great thread here ( ) about trying to find a successful signal service. It was written by a professional trader @SMCJB - one of the best traders I personally know. It is an eye opening read.

Whatever you do, be VERY careful. Trading is really hard, and anyone who claims it is easy is most likely lying. Most (90%?) of people lose in trading.

Good Luck!

Full Disclosure: I bash trading vendors here, but I am also a trading vendor (that is why my profile name is in green). I also trade. Keep that in mind.

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  #3 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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Sarasota FL
 
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jvolm View Post
I feel strongly that trading futures COULD BE the income stream I am looking for as laid out above...again, the problem being that I literally need to follow along i.e. piggy-backjng trades until I would be able to do so on my own.

So, I would really appreciate brutal honesty on any resources that would fit what I am looking for, or if this is this just too much "pie in the sky" thinking on my part?

Since you ask for brutal honesty, here it is: there is absolutely no chance that this will work.

The reason is that you have to be driving the car. You are hoping someone else will take over and drive it for you. This is just not going to work.

Consider that if trading were so easy that it could be done part-time, following someone else's trading calls, then of course everyone would do it. Also, everyone would be rich. But they aren't.

The problem is not that it is hard to find a good, honest, non-scamming guide -- which it is, of course -- the problem is that if you found one, this is still not a good plan. You said you own your business. I imagine it took some effort to build it and that it takes some to maintain it. You are planning to enter another business, one that is notoriously difficult to succeed at, and to not have to learn much about it, or do much to make money at it.

If you learn from others and if you can get into the reasons why their approach might work for you, and if you put in the time (a lot of time), then you might develop something that does work for you, from your own experience and understanding of the markets. It will take work, it will take losing money when you make mistakes, it will take learning from your mistakes, it will take sleepless nights, it will take effort, it will take time. And it is not assured of success.

But this is exactly what you said you don't want to do. It just isn't all that easy. What is easy is losing your "basket of investment capital," or however much of it you have in futures, in the blink of an eye. Not necessarily because you followed the wrong gurus (although this is one good way to lose it fast), but simply because trading in futures is risky, difficult business that requires you putting in the effort, time, attention and personal involvement, and you want to do it all as a side job, with someone else doing the hard stuff.

So no, don't do this. If you are drawn to futures trading, and if you will work at it, and if you have a lot of patience and a lot of belief that you are going to make it, then sure, go ahead and start climbing that mountain. But that's what it is.

Good luck. But just toss this idea in the waste can. Sorry. That's the best way I can put it.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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jvolm
Minneapolis, MN USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 5 given, 3 received


bobwest View Post
Since you ask for brutal honesty, here it is: there is absolutely no chance that this will work.

The reason is that you have to be driving the car. You are hoping someone else will take over and drive it for you. This is just not going to work.

Consider that if trading were so easy that it could be done part-time, following someone else's trading calls, then of course everyone would do it. Also, everyone would be rich. But they aren't.

The problem is not that it is hard to find a good, honest, non-scamming guide -- which it is, of course -- the problem is that if you found one, this is still not a good plan. You said you own your business. I imagine it took some effort to build it and that it takes some to maintain it. You are planning to enter another business, one that is notoriously difficult to succeed at, and to not have to learn much about it, or do much to make money at it.

If you learn from others and if you can get into the reasons why their approach might work for you, and if you put in the time (a lot of time), then you might develop something that does work for you, from your own experience and understanding of the markets. It will take work, it will take losing money when you make mistakes, it will take learning from your mistakes, it will take sleepless nights, it will take effort, it will take time. And it is not assured of success.

But this is exactly what you said you don't want to do. It just isn't all that easy. What is easy is losing your "basket of investment capital," or however much of it you have in futures, in the blink of an eye. Not necessarily because you followed the wrong gurus (although this is one good way to lose it fast), but simply because trading in futures is risky, difficult business that requires you putting in the effort, time, attention and personal involvement, and you want to do it all as a side job, with someone else doing the hard stuff.

So no, don't do this. If you are drawn to futures trading, and if you will work at it, and if you have a lot of patience and a lot of belief that you are going to make it, then sure, go ahead and start climbing that mountain. But that's what it is.

Good luck. But just toss this idea in the waste can. Sorry. That's the best way I can put it.

Bob.

Bob, thank you for the insight!!

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  #5 (permalink)
jvolm
Minneapolis, MN USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 5 given, 3 received

Kevinkdog, thanks for taking the time provide your insight as well...much appreciated!

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  #6 (permalink)
 Nasdaq1517 
Honolulu Hawaii
 
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Trading: ZN
 
Posts: 48 since Oct 2021
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Donít


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jvolm
Minneapolis, MN USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 5 given, 3 received


Nasdaq1517 View Post
Donít

Thank you

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opi5981
Beijing,China
 
 
Posts: 18 since Sep 2021
Thanks: 1 given, 8 received

I suggest you to check out the youtube videos of axia futures, most of which are trading breakouts and economic data, which also shows that the profit of manual trading is mainly in the breakout market and the breakout failure, if you trade chop, you will not be able to get Strong positive feedback. Even if you're right, the market won't tell you that you're a winner. When trading futures, you must check the market depth and transaction orders. It is also very important to choose a reliable trading software. Of course, the premise of all this is that there is no network interruption. By the way, overnight trading is no easier than day trading, and overnight trading is riskier.

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jvolm
Minneapolis, MN USA
 
 
Posts: 6 since Jul 2022
Thanks: 5 given, 3 received


opi5981 View Post
I suggest you to check out the youtube videos of axia futures, most of which are trading breakouts and economic data, which also shows that the profit of manual trading is mainly in the breakout market and the breakout failure, if you trade chop, you will not be able to get Strong positive feedback. Even if you're right, the market won't tell you that you're a winner. When trading futures, you must check the market depth and transaction orders. It is also very important to choose a reliable trading software. Of course, the premise of all this is that there is no network interruption. By the way, overnight trading is no easier than day trading, and overnight trading is riskier.

Thank you!

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OccamsRazorTrader
Fort Myers Florida/USA
 
 
Posts: 36 since May 2020
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Sadly and this comes with a heavy heart from someone who is committed to making a career in trading, your best bet is to be aggressive with your investments. Most financial advisors will give you a risk assessment to figure out where you want to be in terms of risk taking and portfolio mix, and that is dependent on many variables, age, income, retirement timeline etc. When you limit risk you also limit potential reward. In an attempt to maximize reward you also maximize risk.

I know my trading system is extremely volatile- so my longer term investment account is very tame to balance it out. From what I understand trading signal vendors, by the time you get the signal, the trade is already gone, or they buy before releasing the signal, and the participants buying on the signal (if the have a large 'room') provide the profit for the vendor, as their buying drives up the market, almost as a self fulfilling prophecy.

I feel I'm on the right track with a system that I'm comfortable with, and even so, my close friends know what I do, not how I do it ...........
If you developed a system that made money consistently, would you run the risk of someone pilfering your system for a couple hundred bucks a month subscription in a chat room ..........?
I'm not sure anyone really would ................

Good luck!

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