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How to work on strategy

  #11 (permalink)
KenAdams
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@OG65

I would be curious to know how systematic you are with the trading process? I always thought I was but when it got down to it I wasn’t or didn’t follow the rules. For me it wasn't until I defined my entries, backtested and stuck to those rules did I see a turn around in my PnL.

When defining my entries I kept it simple. 3 rules: one for trend/direction, the signal, and the entry. This helps with backtesting and sticking to a plan.

For backtesting I try to be unbiased and remove hindsight by using bar replay and journaling the trade regardless of what I think I would have done in the moment. It’s easy to look at a previous day’s chart and tell yourself “I would have made that trade. Would have ignored that one…” but that’s just not the case. In backtesting you’re trying to discover your edge, will you statistically come out ahead? That won’t happen if you’re muddying it up with other factors.

The hardest part is sticking to your rules. Yes I miss out on big moves but I have to ask myself if trading every one of them really is going to lead me to profit? I have found my profit only goes down the more I trade. The more you trade the more commissions you pay.

Just my two cents. Maybe there is some insight for you or maybe just the ramblings of an armchair warrior.

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  #12 (permalink)
 
OG65's Avatar
 OG65 
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ZviTradingCoach View Post
I would suggest the following first step: TAKE A DEEP BREATH.
Just from reading your post, the stress and urgency you feel about becoming profitable are very apparent. They are perfectly normal in your situation, but unfortunately not very useful on your road to success.

Realize that trading is a skill that takes most people YEARS to master and become consistent in, and that is WITH proper guidance (of course there are outliers in every field... but don't count on it). Even if Micheal Jordan were to "take you under his wing" it'd be years before you were a good basketball player, right? because it's about YOU getting skilled, and finding YOUR way.

I don't trade exactly like my mentors, and my students don't trade exactly like me. A good mentor can and should fully share his wisdom and tools, and guide and feedback you as you attempt to make them your own. It's a long process, more active on your side than the "please just teach me how you trade" approach some people tend to expect.

Rule #1 in successful trading - give yourself space to learn. It's a "try, adjust, trash, try again, adjust, and so on" process until you slowly get the hang of something that works for you. Your goal for the first years is to learn, NOT to make money - it's practically impossible to aim at both at the same time! Change your goals and set them in the right order: making a "decent" salary is a little further out for you, for the time being, and you need to be OK with that to have a chance.
(Note: yes, for some people, the feel of imminent urgent need to make money actually motivates them to success. for the most, it's a dangerous situation with low success rate).

There are many clues in what you wrote as to things you may consider - on both your method, workd process and trading mentality - but it would not be serious to make specific suggestions based on your post alone without deeper review of your trading.

Be prepared for a long process of learning, and if you are - I strongly suggest getting a coach which will not only "teach you tricks" or show you his methods, but also coach and mentor you through your struggles and trades, over time, and help you build and master your own trading system.

Good luck!
Full disclosure - I am a trading coach myself.

Thanks for the wise words.
Teach me senpai

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  #13 (permalink)
 
OG65's Avatar
 OG65 
Taxhell Germany
 
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KenAdams View Post
@OG65

I would be curious to know how systematic you are with the trading process? I always thought I was but when it got down to it I wasn’t or didn’t follow the rules. For me it wasn't until I defined my entries, backtested and stuck to those rules did I see a turn around in my PnL.

When defining my entries I kept it simple. 3 rules: one for trend/direction, the signal, and the entry. This helps with backtesting and sticking to a plan.

For backtesting I try to be unbiased and remove hindsight by using bar replay and journaling the trade regardless of what I think I would have done in the moment. It’s easy to look at a previous day’s chart and tell yourself “I would have made that trade. Would have ignored that one…” but that’s just not the case. In backtesting you’re trying to discover your edge, will you statistically come out ahead? That won’t happen if you’re muddying it up with other factors.

The hardest part is sticking to your rules. Yes I miss out on big moves but I have to ask myself if trading every one of them really is going to lead me to profit? I have found my profit only goes down the more I trade. The more you trade the more commissions you pay.

Just my two cents. Maybe there is some insight for you or maybe just the ramblings of an armchair warrior.

I have a pretty simple strategy. Which I follow.
but you are kind of right sometimes i slack off a little. especially with entries. My strategy is based on confirmation but sometimes I bet that the confirmation occurs to have a better entry position and exit immediatly when the confimation not occurs.

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  #14 (permalink)
 
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 OG65 
Taxhell Germany
 
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ofatrader View Post
@OG65

If you wants to work with your brain, you will need to start training it. No one comes ready to start doing something in trading.

Something that can short your learning process: don't dream with Trading. Don't try to find success in your live with Trading. This is the worst way you can use your brain.

OK
thank you for the wise words

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  #15 (permalink)
 
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 OG65 
Taxhell Germany
 
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Schnook View Post
Don't follow other traders; follow markets. Research them. Study them. Examine data, examine yourself, and become your own trader.

Really nice advice!
with follow traders i mean to see their perspective on data and how they analyse data, i dont mean copytrading. But for sure the ultimate goal is to develop a uniqe own strategy.
Do you have some other advice on creating own startegy even if that are mistakes that you did or something?

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  #16 (permalink)
 
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 OG65 
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rgakalo View Post
Hi,
sorry, but it isn't going to work. You sound very desperate and want success to come as soon as possible but you have no control over the learning progress. Progress comes in form of insights, the process isn't step by step. In my case I learn to trade for the last 13 years and still I have a day job and don't make any money from trading. 1.5 years is nothing because you compete with people that have 20-40 years of experience. Don't rush yourself, find a person whose trading style (timeframe, method of analysis) suits you best, pay him for mentoring and over time you will definitely see the progress but you can't rush it. You won't have the same insights that a person with 20 years of experience have.

Brother feel free to share also mistakes that you did or other advices. I would be happy to hear them you sound very experienced

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  #17 (permalink)
 
OG65's Avatar
 OG65 
Taxhell Germany
 
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Avi24 View Post
Hey! As a newbie and student myself, I understand your frustration. As some others have pointed out, being desperate to make money will likely decrease your chances of doing so. That being said, I can try and make a few suggestions,using my own experience. As I said, I'm pretty new,so if anyone disagrees,feel free to call me out
Just for context,I trade price action on the ES and am a 4 point scalper.
Personally, I always have a profit target before I enter a trade. Once that target is hit,I'm out,whether or not I have another signal. The target is my exit signal. Same goes for my stop loss,which I'm assuming you have. I choose may targets and stops based on my trading 3 months worth of days on random days throughout the year. I have a fixed target and stop which I always use on the ES, which is a bit controversial. But hey,it works for me.
IMO waiting for an exit signal which is also a short entry is risky, entering at the best possible point is nigh impossible,so by default,if you have a short entry signal, youve lost at least some profit on the long.

Also,I do hope you are not trading with actual money if you havent proven you are profitable in sim.
If you feel that paper trading doesnt reflect the reality of trading live, maybe try getting a small account with one of the online prop firms. Not really a long term plan, but you can get skin in the game and ensure you are controlling your emotions with much less risk capitol on the line.

As I said, I'm pretty new to this,but if you send me a DM I'd be happy to explain the basics of my strategy.

you are pretty on point with the analysis of profit taking. I loose a lot of profit in my trades. I am also price action trader, I would be happy if you could share your insight of Profit Taking.
I am not fan of SIM acc, because I am not in the same emotional state with them I am trading with a small accounts rn.

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  #18 (permalink)
 
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 OG65 
Taxhell Germany
 
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Symple View Post
@OG65

I would like to briefly address two points that seem to me enormously important in your context and for the situation in which you currently find yourself, including your desire to become financially independent with the trade.

What I am saying now is not meant sarcastically, because you are currently in a great situation to learn what it means to live with frustration and above all to deal with it. What does this mean now?

In trading you will lose money again and again and to stay motivated you have to endure this frustration and not react with anger trading. You seem to me to be quite emotional and vulnerable in this regard and to control these feelings you have to know them well and thus also have yourself under control. You are now in a great position to practice this.

The second point I want to address is the financial security in trading. When you start trading, whether with a small amount of money or a large amount of money, make sure you never find yourself in a situation where you relay on the money to live on that you might make in trading. This is very important, especially at the beginning when you want to become independent in trading. When your way of trading has proven itself in the market with real money, then this looks a little different.

The above priorities are to be classified on the psychological side in trading. Thus, they do not have much to do with a proven trading strategy, which is another point, but I will not go into it here. Since the psyche in the trade is however so something of important, often however simply ignored, have these two emphasis absolute priority beside all other topics in the beginning in such a way lining up.

I wish you all success you want to become true and further a sunny Sunday.

Symple

Thanks for your Advice

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  #19 (permalink)
 Deetee 
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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@OG65,

You are in the right place here at FIO to learn. Check out the webinars, some are old, but still very valid.

Once you think you have a strategy, play it without money. Either use sim, or if possible, just read it from the charts. Playing with real money bring more emotions, but start without putting any money. I played too much with real money and lost in the beginning over and over again. Then I woke up, and change everything, and started playing things smarter.

Depending on your style, there are a lot of good free training videos. Most of them on youtube are crap, most try to sell you something. Don't go for that. Check the webinars here on FIO.

Maybe start a journal here, share your strategy, and you probably find people helping you out.

Good luck. Stop losing money...

Cheers,
Deetee

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  #20 (permalink)
 
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OG65 View Post
you are pretty on point with the analysis of profit taking. I loose a lot of profit in my trades. I am also price action trader, I would be happy if you could share your insight of Profit Taking.
I am not fan of SIM acc, because I am not in the same emotional state with them I am trading with a small accounts rn.

@OG65 I have been trading for 3+ years and I am now reaching consistency. I will tell you something hoping that I will save you a lot of money. If you follow what I am going to tell you, you will save at least 50.000 euros and a lot of unhappiness.
Enroll to any funding company: TST, earn2trade, or any other.... wait until they have some promotions and take the biggest account (the others are basically impossible).
You will pay 200 to 300 USd per month, and you will reset for 100USD everytime you lose more than 3000USD per day. Basically every 100USD you spare 2900USD.

When I started in 2018 I though I was smarter than anyone else, I was a top graduate in engineering and I was doing a phd in applied math, so I thought I was a lot smarter than Mr. Market.
I knew that on average it takes at least 3 to 5 years to become profitable, I had 6 months of SIM trading and I decided to go live with an account of 50.000USD.
I blew up in 4 months.

I could have days in which I made 3000USD or even 5000USD and days in which I lost 4000USD, I had a 10.000 day loss.
My mind was completely messed up. I had already traded "casually" before, for around 2 years, so I was not a complete newbie.
However the stats are clear most of traders blew up their accounts in 90 days, so this will probably happen to you as well. And trust me, the account size doesn't matter.

I now look at some videos of that time of my life and I see how naive I was. I could put on a position with 7 NQ contracts, sometimes eve 11 contracts.

I will give you something to think about. If you are starting out you might have a 3000USD day, but how many contracts di you use to gain 3000USD? If you trade ES or NQ on a very good day to make 3000USD you need only 1 or 2 contracts. This means that your gains are meaningful and you took a good bunch of the market move.

You want to go live? open an account with 3000 USD and start out with micros, you can earn a living with those, you can have 300USD days or even 1000+USD days by just trading 3 or 4 micros.
learn to use stops, learn to apply a max daily loss.... there is so much to learn.

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