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Why dont people trade 150 ES contracts?


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Why dont people trade 150 ES contracts?

  #31 (permalink)
 
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 josh 
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SBtrader82 View Post
I was reading "unknown market wizards", the latest book by Jack Schwager....and I came across this passage (see the line highlighted in red):

If your point is that people can trade 300 contracts, it's been established that they do it, all the time. Especially in treasuries. Mark Douglas talks about a trader whose max size was 2000 in one of the treasury pits. But treasuries are just as gamed these days, and if you get offside with a few hundred contracts, they can sweep the book and you are toast, quickly.

I probably already said this, but a well known trader on YT who has made $1M days, recorded and verified, frequently sizes up to 300-500 in the ES, euro stoxx, bund, treasuries, and gold.

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  #32 (permalink)
 
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 SMCJB 
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wldman View Post
Brokers charge between 3% and 12% of notional for initial margin. I was quoting my rates, which are near the lower end of that.

But you are correct.

Just to clarify minimum overnight margin rates are set by the exchange, not brokers, although brokers do have the option to require MORE than the minimum. The only contracts I know that are a fixed % of notional are Bitcoin (35%) and Ether (50%). Margin rates are volatility dependent. The higher the volatility the higher the margin rate. The lowest margin rate I am aware of, when considered as a percentage of Notional is Eurodollars, which is a $210 margin on a $1,000,000 Notional. Other current approximate percentages of Notional are USD:EUR 1.6%, Gold 4.2%, S&P500 4.9%, Nasdaq 5.2%, Crude 8.3%, Silver 10.3%, Natural Gas 17.5%.


ondafringe View Post
As for position limits on ES being 100 contracts, all I see is 100 contracts is a "Reporting Level." I don't see a "Position Limit" unless I'm reading it wrong.

Following is a link to d/l a CME spreadsheet:

CME Position Limits and Reporting Levels

And "Reporting Level" doesn't *sound* like it affects the trader, but not certain.

Following is a link to a CME PDF:

Difference between "Position Limit" and "Reporting Level"

I believe "Reporting Level" is the position size that your positions start getting reported to the CFTC as a "large trader". Agreed very different than position limits.

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  #33 (permalink)
 
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 wldman 
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Yeah.

I very cynically say that anyone that is "know" because of their social media or YT is almost certainly full of shit.

There are/were a few traders in here that trade that size, but don't typically talk about it. That is also why someone might not know exact margin rates...because it does not matter to them.

One guy that used to post in here a lot that some how got run off was 1000's up in the 30 year pit in the day.

-Dan



josh View Post
If your point is that people can trade 300 contracts, it's been established that they do it, all the time. Especially in treasuries. Mark Douglas talks about a trader whose max size was 2000 in one of the treasury pits. But treasuries are just as gamed these days, and if you get offside with a few hundred contracts, they can sweep the book and you are toast, quickly.

I probably already said this, but a well known trader on YT who has made $1M days, recorded and verified, frequently sizes up to 300-500 in the ES, euro stoxx, bund, treasuries, and gold.


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  #34 (permalink)
 
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 josh 
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wldman View Post
I very cynically say that anyone that is "know" because of their social media or YT is almost certainly full of shit.
-Dan

In all but this one case, I agree. In this case, it's 100% legit, it's not someone who advertises himself, and his name is not even mentioned, so it's not self-promotion.

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  #35 (permalink)
ant2000
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Yes, except this well known trader (initials DM) did his ass on the Pfizer announcement in the Bund. The video was conveniently cut off just before the damage begun.

PS: There also haven't been any videos since!

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  #36 (permalink)
 
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 matthew28 
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ant2000 View Post
Yes, except this well known trader (initials DM) did his ass on the Pfizer announcement in the Bund. The video was conveniently cut off just before the damage begun.

PS: There also haven't been any videos since!

That's the Axia Futures trader, so how much are you saying he lost? Presumably a lot but he also appears to have big winning days and as he works for a prop firm that must have proper risk management controls in place, even if he had a bad day hitting his max DLL and was closed out by the company, that maximum amount shouldn't have been an account damaging amount relative to his average returns.
I presume anyway, I have never worked for a prop shop, but I would have thought foolproof trader risk management to prevent excess account loss would always be the top priority of any decent firm.

You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
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  #37 (permalink)
sloth
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Avi24 View Post
Hiya! I'm new to FIO and a relative newbie to trading. Ive got a question and hope I dont sound to naive..
I currently trade the ES futures market so my question is regarding the ES.
I've been trying to understand why more people dont trade 150-200 contracts at a time. When watching the DOM I see a decent amount of such orders. Yet,from what Ive seen,most retail traders dont buy in such large quantities. Why dont people generally scale up to large level orders like those? Is it because of slippage? Partial fills? Personal ceiling? I dont really think it would move the market in any way,so with proper risk management,why not? What am I missing? Basically,why arent people making millions by trading a large amount of contracts?

We all trade 500-1000 lots in here. I'm not sure that I understand your question.

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  #38 (permalink)
 
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 bobwest 
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sloth View Post
We all trade 500-1000 lots in here. I'm not sure that I understand your question.



Right?

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
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  #39 (permalink)
 
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bobbolton View Post
When I traded only 5 oil contracts in the Asian session, the price was already running after my stops.

This has nothing to do with your 5 contracts. They're running after liquidity, period, and they know where it's likely to be found. Yours (your stops) is lumped in with everyone else's. CL is $70K notional per contract. $350K notional for your 5. That's literally next to nothing in the world of oil, even in illiquid hours.

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  #40 (permalink)
lightsun47
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bobbolton View Post
When I traded only 5 oil contracts in the Asian session, the price was already running after my stops.

Lol!

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