Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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If you look at the Kinetick thread, @MetalTrade was talking about the new $70/mo fee for data for Russell as of January 1 2011.
I talked with Jay from Telvent/DTN and he confirmed it. He also said there is no fee waiver for Russel like there is for CME.
So, that covers IQFeed and Kinetick, but I am wondering about Zen Fire. Has anyone talked to their Zen Fire broker to see what they say, are they eating this cost or what?
Looks like there is a difference in the cash index subscription (RUT via NASDAQ) and the exchange pricing data (TF via ICE), right? Similar to CME ES prices are one thing but cash SPX is actually another vendor/charge.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Just a general thought here. This is a really really bad move from ICE. Based on what I've read on the forum, a lot of "smaller" traders liked the TF and these same traders are no way going to pay $70/mo. I mean most of them are getting their platform and data for free, no way would they pay $70 to trade an instrument.
Yes I know there are big players here trading TF too, and to those guys $70 makes no difference. But I can't help but think that ICE has made a pretty big mistake here. I can't recommend TF anymore to smaller/less experienced traders, so I'll have to find a new instrument I guess
Is this some kind of a trend for other instruments ? Clearly they have must analyzed who is trading their TF and they must have decided that they need to do something to get the small guy out of it.
If the small guy is out of the TF, who's money am I going to take then ??
$70 a month for TF data is a joke imo (which has had some bugs last few weeks).....not like the TF is some HUGE instrument which all the commercials trade.....LOL!
No thanks......I will keep trading the ES/DAX/CL/CME FX and may add NQ again.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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Your broker is Mirus right? You should ask them to confirm they are live quotes, and not delayed. I can't really see a broker eating $70/mo x all their clients, but its worth asking.
Mike i got this answer from the representative at Mirus:
You will still get real time quotes from Zen-Fire. All the information being sent to you by DTN is only for IQFeed which is a data provider and not a trading engine like Zen-Fire.
You can trade on Rithmic without any additional fees for the TF.
Rithmic is an execution quote feed.
The Quote vendor distributors like DTN/IQ, Kinetick, etc which you cannot trade on have to pass on whatever is imposed on by the exchange.
ICE made this rate increase announcement yesterday and until now it was free.
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Im still doing tests on this instrument.... I recently switched to NQ from ES since it trends better, $70 month is not that big of a deal.
I've seen some people claim they make a 6k+ a month( im not saying who, but some are on this board ), and all of a sudden they can't afford $70...lol
Makes me wonder.
I've also seen some professionals with websites doing the same thing, and they charge their customers $300+ a month), and their dropping it as well. For people that are doing this for a living, i don't see why they consider this to be so expensive. Granted, free is always better, but Its the cost of business.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
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If I was trading TF the last year or two instead of CL, then clearly $70 is not a big deal. What makes it a "big deal" for me is that I was previously recommending TF to newer traders because I felt it was a good match (lower tick cost, not as fast as an instrument, etc). Now I can't really do that, because most new traders won't pay $70 a month for a single instrument, they will just look elsewhere.
So it's clear that they believe there are enough retail traders that love the instrument to pay for it, or perhaps they believe they don't need as much retail business no matter.
I absolutely agree with you a 100%, newer traders that are starting to learn with no experience, thats a big one. And i do agree with you in a sense that I think its not a good business move on their end. However, I'm talking about people who consider themselves gurus who trade this instrument almost everyday( although not exclusively), and complaining about the cost, to me it doesn't make sense. $70 is 7 ticks on the TF. Anyone who can trade that instrument, should be able to afford the monthly cost.
I can almost guarantee that you would prob be pissed if you had to pay that much to trade the CL every month, but you would ultimately pay, since its your bread and butter. You wouldn't drop it like a bad habit as soon as you heard the news.
Thats why it was a bit of a shock when i heard that from them.
I don't think the TF data fees should be free (maybe about $20/month) but what I think is a complete joke is a jump up to $70 dollars for a "B" tier instrument. The TF is loaded up with retail traders liquidity and many who are newer to trading. The ICE group is making a dumb move jacking fees for an instrument that is not at all in the league of the ES, ZB, or CL.
I think a lot of people dumped TF years ago because of the fees. I pay something like $100 with tradestation but with it going back to the cme in 2017 I suspect it will be part of the e-mini package and not cost any extra at that point.
