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When to Quit Paper Trading/Replay and Go Live?


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When to Quit Paper Trading/Replay and Go Live?

  #21 (permalink)
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 357 since May 2018
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Comeback King View Post
I strongly disagree with this. Very few people are going to have robotic or no emotions. Humans are emotional creatures, ignore this at your peril. If you keep telling yourself to not have emotions or to act like a robot you will fail over and over. You need to recognize your emotions and deal with them, let them pass - be okay with them. The key is to recognize your emotions and make a conscious decision to not act on them.

I will reply to you very easily as well that I strongly disagree with you because I have developed my own mindset which transforms myself into a robot when I enter a trade.

I already easily overcome my emotions even if I am losing, because no matter how good you are, you will lose. So why take it very seriously?

This is a business. There will be losses. Just cut them short. It's only possible when start thinking like machines. It's not impossible. That's all.

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  #22 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
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lightsun47 View Post
I will reply to you very easily as well that I strongly disagree with you because I have developed my own mindset which transforms myself into a robot when I enter a trade.

I already easily overcome my emotions even if I am losing, because no matter how good you are, you will lose. So why take it very seriously?

This is a business. There will be losses. Just cut them short. It's only possible when start thinking like machines. It's not impossible. That's all.

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Emotions?

Of course we all know that we have them. Yes, you can trade robotically (once you understand yourself and your strategy). Case in point: You place a long trade with a stop below your signal candle (for instance). You walk away. Come back and see that you got stopped out. Sure you will not be happy... Emotion!

But the entry was mechanical if you placed the trade according to your strategy.

You may have made a highly probable trade, but like Mark Douglas said..... "You don't know"!

On a side note, there sure are a bunch of smart and intelligent contributors on this site, even if they see things different than I do!

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  #23 (permalink)
dodec
London, UK
 
Posts: 5 since Aug 2021
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Pretty much all the info I've seen so far was that paper trading is useless and is indeed, useless. However, there is on case where it might be useful but it all depends on yourself on how you will implement it and if you try to cheat - you will be cheating yourself. The strategy is that you trade paper as you would be trading real money. If you got paper account with 1m $ - reduce it to 25k and go from there with executing all your ideas and trades as it would be your real money. You have to be really obsessed about paper, otherwise there is no point. I'm not sure if this would work for every individual as from my experience, no pain could be compared when it comes to real money. I remember back in March last year when rona bitted the world and russians were fighting with arabs (opec) and when I was positioned myself for one oil company to go long based on positive outcome from one event - I managed to call event right, and got up by 400, however, for some stupid greedy reason I decided to wait longer, just in case it will go up. The next day I was -600 and couldn't stand the pain anymore and just liquidated position. Later, for about next 3 days I was so frustrated that I cannot remember when I felt so bad any time before in my life. Whatever I tried to do, did not help. However, after few days "the mind" finally accepted the loss and learned something what I would never ever do again. Now remembering this event, I can't imagine experiencing same thing if that was paper, not real $.

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  #24 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
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FuturesTrader71 View Post
I believe I did a webinar on this very topic. Having backed many traders in prop and seeing how traders progress through brokerage, I feel like there is a typical pattern. The key element is to ask yourself whether or not you are truly doing "the work" to trade right. Quitting when you have given 150% in terms of effort, process and execution is one thing. Quitting because you aren't making money and are burned out or have blown up (not necessarily in your case) is entirely another thing, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if this video or not, but this may be helpful:

Hello FuturesTrader71,

I never understand the reasoning for journal trades? Why not just trade everyday and see if the account balance increases over time or decreases. If account balance increases, I am doing it right. If account balance decreases, I suck, get better.

Can you please understand the purpose of spending so much time journaling trades?

Thanks,

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  #25 (permalink)
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 357 since May 2018
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redbarntrades View Post
Emotions?



Of course we all know that we have them. Yes, you can trade robotically (once you understand yourself and your strategy). Case in point: You place a long trade with a stop below your signal candle (for instance). You walk away. Come back and see that you got stopped out. Sure you will not be happy... Emotion!



But the entry was mechanical if you placed the trade according to your strategy.



You may have made a highly probable trade, but like Mark Douglas said..... "You don't know"!



On a side note, there sure are a bunch of smart and intelligent contributors on this site, even if they see things different than I do!

But the real difference is, I never walk away after placing my trades. I always finish whatever trades I am in and then accept the end result, knowing consciously that these are all random probabilities which I am trying to work on based on the best strategy I found recently and may or may not be favorable in my end goals.

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  #26 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
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lightsun47 View Post
But the real difference is, I never walk away after placing my trades. I always finish whatever trades I am in and then accept the end result, knowing consciously that these are all random probabilities which I am trying to work on based on the best strategy I found recently and may or may not be favorable in my end goals.

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Yep, I certainly agree. It seems that early on in our trading life, that emotions run higher because they are the body's way of letting us know that we are taking a risk that could hurt us. When we get tired of being "emotional", then we start to look at our trading more pragmatically. Once familiarity comes with thousands of hours of screen time (as in my case), the emotional strain seems to fall away. Then cometh the more robotic trades. We(I) start to look at the math of winners vs. losers.

I did use the "walk away" as an example. I personally don't walk away either. Most of my trades last for about 90 seconds. So, if this trade does not work, then I am looking for the next.

Best regards!

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  #27 (permalink)
 
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 FuturesTrader71 
 
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goodoboy View Post
Hello FuturesTrader71,

I never understand the reasoning for journal trades? Why not just trade everyday and see if the account balance increases over time or decreases. If account balance increases, I am doing it right. If account balance decreases, I suck, get better.

Can you please understand the purpose of spending so much time journaling trades?

Thanks,

Hey goodoboy,

Let's go on the assumption that "you suck" or are in a drawdown or are "off". Where do you go to start fixing it? How do you know what you were doing right in the first place? A journal seems pointless when you are raking it in, but is indispensable when you are working through your errors or looking to figure out where your trades aren't playing out. If you want to trade like a professional, then a journal is key. Your P&L doesn't say much at all. Heck, I can throw darts and hit winners randomly. Doesn't mean I'm any good.

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  #28 (permalink)
agent1953
charlotte, nc
 
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58LesPaul View Post
When should one go live from paper trading? From previous threads I've read successful traders do not win every day, maybe every week. So should I go live when I have won every week for how long? 3 months? 6 months? Or am I day dreaming there also?

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you go live when you can trust your setup and trust yourself to follow it

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  #29 (permalink)
redbarntrades
Kalispell=Mt./USA
 
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"The journey of trading to make money".......

Making money is the goal. Trading is the vehicle.

I abandoned the idea that I could figure out too far out there what the market will do. Add in Chaos Theory.

Then, I finally answered the most important question for ME!

1. How much money do I honestly want to make.
2. How quick do I want to make it.
3. What tools and how much leverage do I want to use.

Once I answered those questions, then I could bring my strategy into submission to my 3 aforementioned goals.

I'm a tool man. 40 years of using construction tools to get the job done. I am a nuts and bolts kind of guy.

Others are much more intelligent than I am. Therefore their advice may suit you better.

G'day!

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  #30 (permalink)
 Carnac 
Chicago, Illinois
 
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90%+ of the trading platforms out there will fill you INCORRECTLY, aka, the moment it was touched. If you have a good sim/LIVE platform and you are not losing EVERY DAY... then trade the Micros. The Micros will have your heart & mind in the game because it's LIVE, When that's not an issue you can graduate to the ES?NQ, etc...

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