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How many emini traders are there in a world of >6 billion people


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How many emini traders are there in a world of >6 billion people

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  #1 (permalink)
 meandthetrio 
New Orleans, LA
 
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I would love to know if anyone has found an estimate of the amount of people who trade the e mini daily.

Itís the most liquid market in our world of over 6 billion people and it could be 50k or 1mil for all I know. Google doesnít really give any good result

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 MNSTrading 
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Eight trillion people, but only one in the mirror.

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 tr8er 
Market Wizard
Europe
 
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meandthetrio View Post
I would love to know if anyone has found an estimate of the amount of people who trade the e mini daily.

Itís the most liquid market in our world of over 6 billion people and it could be 50k or 1mil for all I know. Google doesnít really give any good result

If Google doesn't have an answer, I guess nobody but you is interested How about sending an email to CME-group?

How many day traders are there?
According to ďThe Modern Trader Ē report, released by Broker Notes, there are 9.6 million traders worldwide. Basically, 1 out of 781 people on the planet trade online. You might assume that they would live in big cities near financial centres, such as New York, London, Hong Kong, etc., but you are mistaken.

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 SBtrader82 
Rovigo (ITALY)
 
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Platform: SierraChart, MotiveWave
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meandthetrio View Post
I would love to know if anyone has found an estimate of the amount of people who trade the e mini daily.

Itís the most liquid market in our world of over 6 billion people and it could be 50k or 1mil for all I know. Google doesnít really give any good result

Well... you can make some aproximations.... for instance 1 million trader? that's certainly not the case. On Friday 14thMAy the traded volume was 1.5M contracts in total, so if every was a day trader, meaning that everyone buys and sell the same day. There would be at most 750.000 traders, that would be the case of traders buying/selling only one contract during the day.
If every day trader makes 10 operations of 1 contract there would be around 75.000 traders.
  • small retail traders, that now are around 25% of the market according to Reuters and Business insider (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-numbers-idUSKBN29Y2PW and https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/retail-investors-quarter-of-stock-market-coronavirus-volatility-trading-citadel-2020-7-1029382035). So there are 18,750 contracts that are traded by retailers. So there will be 1,5M x 25%=375000 conttracts traded by day traders. I would say that a retails makes a volume of around 30 to 50 round turn per day on average. aorund 6000 to 12,500 retail traders.

  • Then there will be a lot of volume that is due to simple Arbitrage between minis and micros mainly done by robots
    So let's say that half of the volume is due to arbitrage and robots. That is tot volume of 750K.

  • The remaining 25% is made of big banks and institutions (funds etc...) and I would dare to say that only 5% is for longer term operations and 20% is trading money.
    This 20% will make a volume 10K to 20K per day at least.... so these will be a bunch of 15 to 30 people. The 10K to 20K daily volume is reasonable if you give a look at the discount fees programs by CME. CME offer discount fees in segments... see picture below. I dare to say that the segment above 50K per day is mainly for firms using robots and the smaller segments are for some big traders.


In conclusion days traders will be in the range 6K to 12K.


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  #5 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

well I can give you a very detailed answer and so can the CME as well as all entities that have DIRECT market access with their own 12k per month connection.

if you have that level which i know on a text right this second or friendly phone call then they can tell you all kind of statistics that you will most likely never see or even start to comprehend but you realize each
account at each fcm or every connection to the exchange when you log into the cme system thru your broker or execcution platform automatically logs who you are ! so
in the overnight session you usually have anywhere from 4000 to 7000 :connections" the cme is serious about not sharing connections so you can estimate that this is 1 person or 1 algo (machine trading)

during very busy times there are as many as 27,000 to 50,000 log ins to the system so it is not nearly as many people as you would think and only a fraction of the number of people trading stocks.

the other data shows the total number of messages coming into the trade engines and or the convenience gate way which is where retail gets botttle neckes all day long as the pros use the market segment gateways which are direct conenctions to say the emini or the crude contract.

you may not know this but when you send orders to the conveneicne gateway they are sent to the markeet segment gateways and while at the conveneince gateway they are not given FIFO priority they are actually not sent to the market segment gateway until there are enough orders to send to the HFT and algos waiting to feast on those orders. thsi threshold is designated by the cme..

now when they are batched to the markete egment gateways then they do get priority on teh book as FIFO but until then you could click the button befroe me and i could get priorit on the book fifo randomly before you and this is the truth. this is yeat another speed bump for retail on top of everything else.

the busienss is set up for you to not beable to win and beat them making markets trading ultra short term that is why fees and commissions an everythign else will work against you to try this.

scalping is a seriously expensive game to play in futures. it is highly lucrative and almost riskless for the real firms at the cme but not you and me. we are the mark as always in that realm.

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  #6 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

another thign to thin about is that when the hft fills your order they get a confimration of what FCM they just cleared with! this all happens before you know you are filled and if your fcm doesnt mix up order numbers and etc then you can easily be marked by certain algos etc and hft AFTER the trade is done not while your order is in play.. however once the trade is matched you are NO LONGER ANONNYMOUS at all! they know the fcm they cleared with and they know what outfits are primarily retail so they take that along with fillinf or matching 70% of all orders and they can very easily start to get an idea of retail order flow during sell offs or ralleis and they will due to unlimited funds and margin. they will run it up a lil knowing you are long just to smash it lower hard and fast to get you to puke out and if you do not puke out they have teh ability to sell it even further knowing that most retail are long always traders.

it is a nasty game that is played 1 lot by lot ..don't believe me.. this is why when you trade demo the mkt never goes nuts when you click mkt buy. but try it live even in the micros and you can set off a massive amount of action in the market as they all start trying to build traps for what they think is coming next. the pro algos hft react to OUR orders typically if you buy they run it down a few points becuase they want to cove at a gain since they sold as you bought. buy another one on that quick sell off and depending on the probability ro where they think there is more liquidity then they will most likely run it even lower to get you to puke on that second position. this is why you must pick your battles !! don't beleive me check your account balance!!

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  #7 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

What MOST retail traders never do is ACTUALLY DIG INTO THE DETAILS of the business to really understand how it works!! yeah i give you thin information not because i dont want you to trade but realize DEMO is just demo and no counterparty!! this is all information you should know about.
ScreenHunter 20590


ScreenHunter 20589


ScreenHunter 20588


ScreenHunter 20587


ScreenHunter 20586


ScreenHunter 20585


ScreenHunter 20584

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  #8 (permalink)
 Cutloss 
Midway florida
 
 
Posts: 244 since May 2021

algos and hft don't use just market information in the form of price and volume they use LOTS of back office matching data to formulate strategies. YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSSED TO WIN.

know that i fyou win win win that you are most liekely being set up to lose!
this is why you will have a few easy days.. where the big mkt participants give you money and you are like.. i got this! and you size up..
well the big money entities KNOW the are about to take you for what they just gave you and MORE!! as you size up or send in more money or get too confidnet in your
trading.. omg the macd is working!! lol BOOOOOMMM they nail you and you dont cutloss and bye bye trader.. this is the cycle they feast and thrive on!! you

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  #9 (permalink)
RooRoo11
saint john, new brunswick, canada
 
 
Posts: 5 since May 2021
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Cutloss View Post
well I can give you a very detailed answer and so can the CME as well as all entities that have DIRECT market access with their own 12k per month connection.

if you have that level which i know on a text right this second or friendly phone call then they can tell you all kind of statistics that you will most likely never see or even start to comprehend but you realize each
account at each fcm or every connection to the exchange when you log into the cme system thru your broker or execcution platform automatically logs who you are ! so
in the overnight session you usually have anywhere from 4000 to 7000 :connections" the cme is serious about not sharing connections so you can estimate that this is 1 person or 1 algo (machine trading)

during very busy times there are as many as 27,000 to 50,000 log ins to the system so it is not nearly as many people as you would think and only a fraction of the number of people trading stocks.

the other data shows the total number of messages coming into the trade engines and or the convenience gate way which is where retail gets botttle neckes all day long as the pros use the market segment gateways which are direct conenctions to say the emini or the crude contract.

you may not know this but when you send orders to the conveneicne gateway they are sent to the markeet segment gateways and while at the conveneince gateway they are not given FIFO priority they are actually not sent to the market segment gateway until there are enough orders to send to the HFT and algos waiting to feast on those orders. thsi threshold is designated by the cme..

now when they are batched to the markete egment gateways then they do get priority on teh book as FIFO but until then you could click the button befroe me and i could get priorit on the book fifo randomly before you and this is the truth. this is yeat another speed bump for retail on top of everything else.

the busienss is set up for you to not beable to win and beat them making markets trading ultra short term that is why fees and commissions an everythign else will work against you to try this.

scalping is a seriously expensive game to play in futures. it is highly lucrative and almost riskless for the real firms at the cme but not you and me. we are the mark as always in that realm.

Eye opening...Thank you for sharing

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  #10 (permalink)
 meandthetrio 
New Orleans, LA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: ES - GC
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2019
Thanks: 8 given, 4 received


Exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much bud



SBtrader82 View Post
Well... you can make some aproximations.... for instance 1 million trader? that's certainly not the case. On Friday 14thMAy the traded volume was 1.5M contracts in total, so if every was a day trader, meaning that everyone buys and sell the same day. There would be at most 750.000 traders, that would be the case of traders buying/selling only one contract during the day.
If every day trader makes 10 operations of 1 contract there would be around 75.000 traders.
  • small retail traders, that now are around 25% of the market according to Reuters and Business insider (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-numbers-idUSKBN29Y2PW and https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/retail-investors-quarter-of-stock-market-coronavirus-volatility-trading-citadel-2020-7-1029382035). So there are 18,750 contracts that are traded by retailers. So there will be 1,5M x 25%=375000 conttracts traded by day traders. I would say that a retails makes a volume of around 30 to 50 round turn per day on average. aorund 6000 to 12,500 retail traders.

  • Then there will be a lot of volume that is due to simple Arbitrage between minis and micros mainly done by robots
    So let's say that half of the volume is due to arbitrage and robots. That is tot volume of 750K.

  • The remaining 25% is made of big banks and institutions (funds etc...) and I would dare to say that only 5% is for longer term operations and 20% is trading money.
    This 20% will make a volume 10K to 20K per day at least.... so these will be a bunch of 15 to 30 people. The 10K to 20K daily volume is reasonable if you give a look at the discount fees programs by CME. CME offer discount fees in segments... see picture below. I dare to say that the segment above 50K per day is mainly for firms using robots and the smaller segments are for some big traders.


In conclusion days traders will be in the range 6K to 12K.



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