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Eurex Products Advice - FDAX/FDXM/FESX


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Eurex Products Advice - FDAX/FDXM/FESX

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  #1 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
Posts: 30 since Oct 2020
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Good day,

I am new here and would very much appreciate some guidance in terms of trading Eurex products. I have read some previous posts on this area but some things within the threads I still wouldn't mind some clarification.

I am UK based so this market works well around my timeframes. I have been looking at the FDax, FDxm Mini Dax and FESX Euro 50.

My plan is as follows. With regards to my analysis: I am using Sierra charts and mostly looking at TPO/VPO/Footprint(Delta/C.Delta) to form some idea of bias.

Long-term this is not a lifestyle change but more a way to supplement my income (thats the plan anyway!).

In terms of execution I am using a broker to trade the CFD equivalent of the underlying exchange product so that I can reduce my risk to an acceptable level that I am happy with. The broker I am with currently seems to track the underlying instrument with its CFD Derivative quite accurately - although the charts track quite well but the actual point level of the CFD is slightly higher say 20points which I can't quite wrap my head around - perhaps someone could elaborate?


* In terms of DAX analysis does it matter if I use the FDAX or the FDXM. I know the FDAX has more volume and from what I have read here in some other posts that it forms a tracking basis for the underlying Mini? I.e the Mini sometimes moves without any trades on the DOM? Is this correct?

*I like the logic behind Delta/C.Delta and Absorption. Given this which would be the better instrument to trade.
- Is there anyone here doing this with much success?
- Would trading the FESX be a better option given its higher volume for this method of trading? (The CFD Equivalents for Euro 50 tend to have much higher spreads which is why I have been focusing on the DAX for now)

* With regards to CFD's I have always wondered how the underlying process works. I have read articles where the broker will hedge against the client sentiment on its CFD in the opposite direction on the actual underlying exchange - Is this true? or have I misunderstood something along the way here?

Finally, I wanted to discuss whether I am on the right track here with the plan above, or I am heading myself down the garden path in the wrong direction!

Any guidance, help and advice always taken with an open mind and gratefully appreciated! Thank you in advance!

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  #2 (permalink)
 askerix 
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Hi Dazzc,

just a comment to Cum Delta - keep in mind that this behaves in different markets very different. there are "thin" markets like the FDAX and much "thicker" markets like the FESX, I've read somewhere that CD not that usable in all of them. But I can't explain it correctly. You should do a lot backtesting when you transfer your FDAX ideas to FESX.

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  #3 (permalink)
 tr8er 
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You mentioned that you see different prices if you compare futures and CFD's. This happens because most CFD-brokers will give you cash-prices and not futures-prices. So you have to compare the cash DAX with your CFD and not the FDAX (just an example). Another advice: if you want to trade the FDXM, you should always chart the FDAX.

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  #4 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
Posts: 30 since Oct 2020
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askerix View Post
Hi Dazzc,

just a comment to Cum Delta - keep in mind that this behaves in different markets very different. there are "thin" markets like the FDAX and much "thicker" markets like the FESX, I've read somewhere that CD not that usable in all of them. But I can't explain it correctly. You should do a lot backtesting when you transfer your FDAX ideas to FESX.

Thanks for the info @askerix

I read somewhere that the GL Gold market seems to respond well to absorption and passive sellers/buyers but maybe someone else can elaborate more on the best markets for c.delta analysis. As well as my other queries

Thanks again.

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  #5 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
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tr8er View Post
You mentioned that you see different prices if you compare futures and CFD's. This happens because most CFD-brokers will give you cash-prices and not futures-prices. So you have to compare the cash DAX with your CFD and not the FDAX (just an example). Another advice: if you want to trade the FDXM, you should always chart the FDAX.

Thanks @tr8er

You are 100% correct the Futures CFD's tracks perfectly thank you. Although the spread on the Futures CFD is alot worse in the region of 30 compared to 6 if I traded the cash if I traded the same margin and made a market order. I guess it wouldn't make much difference if I still traded the cash equivalent (??) as long as I just added/subtracted the points difference between CFD Cash & CFD Futures and took into account this difference - as it tracks the same but obviously with a higher value.

Cheers again.

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  #6 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
Posts: 30 since Oct 2020
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tr8er View Post
You mentioned that you see different prices if you compare futures and CFD's. This happens because most CFD-brokers will give you cash-prices and not futures-prices. So you have to compare the cash DAX with your CFD and not the FDAX (just an example). Another advice: if you want to trade the FDXM, you should always chart the FDAX.

Also I see so you mean now I.e. compare the "DAX Index Cash (DYY00)" to the Cash CFD. Cheers.

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  #7 (permalink)
 matthew28 
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I wouldn't use market orders in a thin product like the DAX as you are automatically trading on the expensive side of the spread and probably going to get slippage too. It depends how actively you intend to trade. If short term trading with a fair few trades a day that spread can get very expensive and wipe out any potential profit.
One of the reasons people trade futures is because they are traded on a single exchange and everybody sees the same price. Also the trading platforms allow you to place an order anywhere on the Depth of Market (DOM), so you can try and enter on the favourable side of the spread.
On the otherhand, although I have never traded CFDs, I believe they are like spot forex markets, no central exchange so the brokerage you trade with sets the price. Therefore they are a market maker and do take the opposite side of your trade to facilitate instant trade. So you trade against your broker who is making up the prices you have to trade at. (CFDs are banned in the US).
If interested in shorter term trading then when I was interested in spot forex quite a few years back, the platforms were all commission free to attract traders who wanted to "trade for free". They made their money setting the spread. So when you buy you buy at the high price of the spread (and your broker sells it to you), and vice versa for selling. So they always profit on the spread and you can't. I presume CFD brokers are the same.

Some people like thick markets some like thin. The FESX and the DAX are thick and thin as Askerix said. Thin markets are move fast, thick markets move more slowly relatively. Depending on how you intend to try trading you are likely to favour one over the other.

The initial CFD DAX market you looked at will be a different price to the futures FDAX because it is a continuous contract. The futures contracts rollover every three months. The current FDX contract is December 2020 and looking at the Eurex website, priced at 12,536. The next contract is March 2021 priced at 12,640. These prices will come a lot closer together as we get to rollover date which I guess is in December like the US equity index futures.

If trading on a longer time frame use FDAX data for charting and vol profile, footprint etc then enter the trades in the cash market equivalent CFD with the lower spread. As Tr8er says if you want to trade the mini Dax, still chart the FDAX as it has much more volume so will be much better for your volume analysis compared to charting the FDXM which will probably give you very 'lumpy' looking footprint charts for example due to less volume.

No particular conclusion. Just some comments.

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  #8 (permalink)
 JohnS 
Bamberg, Germany
 
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Dazzc View Post

I am UK based so this market works well around my timeframes. I have been looking at the FDax, FDxm Mini Dax and FESX Euro 50.

My plan is as follows. With regards to my analysis: I am using Sierra charts and mostly looking at TPO/VPO/Footprint(Delta/C.Delta) to form some idea of bias.

Ive traded the FDXM and it has a lot of nice set-ups in the European morning. Have you considered the ES / MES at the same time frame? they have a lot more volume than the FDAX/FDXM, which might be beneficial for your methodology. There are also CFDs for the ES.

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  #9 (permalink)
neil
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Dazzc View Post
Also I see so you mean now I.e. compare the "DAX Index Cash (DYY00)" to the Cash CFD. Cheers.

An American Broker like "TradeStation" "AMP" etc would allow you to trade Micro Futures - would that help ?

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  #10 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
Posts: 30 since Oct 2020
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Thanks very much for the info @matthew28

Apologies for any daft questions but I am trying to learn.


matthew28 View Post
I wouldn't use market orders in a thin product like the DAX as you are automatically trading on the expensive side of the spread and probably going to get slippage too.

Would I be right in thinking if I am trading a CFD I guess I am always paying a min. small spread regardless of whether a market buy or limit buy is placed? for instance If I was to place a limit order with a CFD would that execute when the "market buy" price hits the limit order therefore I would always be paying some kind of spread or would it be the mid point between the buy/sell.




matthew28 View Post
On the otherhand, although I have never traded CFDs, I believe they are like spot forex markets, no central exchange so the brokerage you trade with sets the price. Therefore they are a market maker and do take the opposite side of your trade to facilitate instant trade. So you trade against your broker who is making up the prices you have to trade at. (CFDs are banned in the US).
If interested in shorter term trading then when I was interested in spot forex quite a few years back, the platforms were all commission free to attract traders who wanted to "trade for free". They made their money setting the spread. So when you buy you buy at the high price of the spread (and your broker sells it to you), and vice versa for selling. So they always profit on the spread and you can't. I presume CFD brokers are the same.

I've read a few articles re this but could never quite 100% understand the process - In terms of when when the broker sells to you when you "market buy" within their product. Are they actually placing a trade within the actual exchange or just offering liquidity in house?

I could never quite understand if this was true then why do their CFD's track exactly how the underlying index tracks. So they sell to you and just hope that you are wrong as even though they are a market maker their product is driven off the underlying indices.




matthew28 View Post
If trading on a longer time frame use FDAX data for charting and vol profile, footprint etc then enter the trades in the cash market equivalent CFD with the lower spread. As Tr8er says if you want to trade the mini Dax, still chart the FDAX as it has much more volume so will be much better for your volume analysis compared to charting the FDXM which will probably give you very 'lumpy' looking footprint charts for example due to less volume.

This is how I am looking to go - cheers.



matthew28 View Post
No particular conclusion. Just some comments.

Even so, Thanks for the comments!

Finally forgive the nosiness but I notice you are UK trader trading ES. I'm wondering what setup you use to get the best data/platform and broker in terms of cost effectiveness.

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  #11 (permalink)
Dazzc
Cardiff, UK
 
 
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JohnS View Post
Ive traded the FDXM and it has a lot of nice set-ups in the European morning. Have you considered the ES / MES at the same time frame? they have a lot more volume than the FDAX/FDXM, which might be beneficial for your methodology. There are also CFDs for the ES.

Never considered it @JohnS but I'll check it out. Thank you

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  #12 (permalink)
Dazzc
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neil View Post
An American Broker like "TradeStation" "AMP" etc would allow you to trade Micro Futures - would that help ?

I've heard of AMP Neil but not checked them out. Thank you for the recommendation. Is this your method for trading the ES?

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  #13 (permalink)
neil
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Dazzc View Post
I've heard of AMP Neil but not checked them out. Thank you for the recommendation. Is this your method for trading the ES?

I use Futures but I am a novice to Futures. many USA thread members consider Futures a more level playing field when compared to CFD's due to Futures having an open market. Perhaps a more experienced US Futures trader could comment?

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 bobwest 
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matthew28 View Post
On the otherhand, although I have never traded CFDs, I believe they are like spot forex markets, no central exchange so the brokerage you trade with sets the price. Therefore they are a market maker and do take the opposite side of your trade to facilitate instant trade. So you trade against your broker who is making up the prices you have to trade at. (CFDs are banned in the US).


neil View Post
I use Futures but I am a novice to Futures. many USA thread members consider Futures a more level playing field when compared to CFD's due to Futures having an open market. Perhaps a more experienced US Futures trader could comment?

I have never traded CFD's either, because they are illegal in the United States.

The reason is simply that you are trading against your broker, not on an exchange where you are buying and selling with other traders. The opportunities for brokers to take advantage of the situation are pretty obvious. (Edit: this is not too different from spot forex, but there is a degree of regulation in the forex market. A large forex broker -- FXCM -- was recently banned from doing business in the United States for trading against their customers, rather than simply providing quotes and liquidity from outside sources, as they claimed.)

The title of this thread is "Eurex Products Advice..." but you would not be trading on Eurex, an exchange, if you traded CFD's.

Can you successfully trade CFD's anyway? I assume you can, but the game is somewhat tilted against you from the start. Just go into it with your eyes open.

There may be an advantage to CFD's in terms needing a smaller amount of money to get into them, but that is actually a danger too. Being underfunded is one of the best ways to lose your entire account quickly, because you can't withstand very many losing trades before you are out.

Be cautious here.

Bob.

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 matthew28 
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Dazzc View Post
Thanks very much for the info

Would I be right in thinking if I am trading a CFD I guess I am always paying a min. small spread regardless of whether a market buy or limit buy is placed? for instance If I was to place a limit order with a CFD would that execute when the "market buy" price hits the limit order therefore I would always be paying some kind of spread or would it be the mid point between the buy/sell.

I'll preface my answer again by saying I have never traded CFD's only spot forex but that was a few years ago. I do know though that CFDs aren't traded on an exchange but the prices are set by the individual brokers like spot forex was when I was trading it so I assuming the platforms are still the same and they also tend to be commission free and making their money from the spread.
The picture below is a DOM for the Nasdaq equity index futures, (NQZ20 current front month).


Apologies if this is all obvious but: The Bid price is 11263.00 with one contract in the order book trying to buy that price. The Ask/Offer if 11263.50 with two contracts showing in the book trying to sell. If you sell with a market order and the price didn't move you would go short at 11263.00 if you sold one contract. If you sold two contracts you would get filled one contract at 11263.00, and one contract a tick lower at 11262.75. But a market order is an order to fill at the first available price for your position in the queue. Therefore by the time your order reaches the exchange the market might have moved and you don't know where you might be filled. The NQ is a thin product and can move fast, I have never traded the DAX but I understand it is faster still. As well as price moving all orders arriving at the exchange are executed in order (some exchange give order queue priority to large orders I believe, maybe some Treasuries, not sure but the CME will have a paper on that somewhere, but most are normal queues. So if somebody bangs in a ten lot short market order for instance just in front of you they will take everything down to 11262.25 leaving your order to start filling at 11262.00.

With futures if I want to buy I can tap in a limit order on the DOM to add to the order book queue and try to buy at any price from 11263.00 down. When I traded spot forex because the companies made their profit on the spread the platforms only had buy or sell buttons to push for market orders, or you could set a panel to enter a limit order but it had to be say at least ten or twenty ticks, or pips, away from current price, same for the exit order.
So none of this really matters, whether you pay a cost in the spread or a small commission, if you want to trade relatively infrequently for large targets. But if daytrading and especially scalping, you trade futures because you can place trades where you want and the exchange matches prices and the futures broker just facilitates the trade/provides margin. I have seen you say what tools you think might be useful for your trading, but not what sort of timeframe you imagine holding your trades for.


Dazzc View Post
I've read a few articles re this but could never quite 100% understand the process - In terms of when when the broker sells to you when you "market buy" within their product. Are they actually placing a trade within the actual exchange or just offering liquidity in house?

I could never quite understand if this was true then why do their CFD's track exactly how the underlying index tracks. So they sell to you and just hope that you are wrong as even though they are a market maker their product is driven off the underlying indices.

With US futures such as the NQ the CME is the exchange that sets the price of the products and manages the orders. You hit buy and the order goes to your broker, they send it to the CME and the CME computer place it in the queue and match it then fill it. All the orders go to them as there is one exchange.
With CFDs there is no central exchange. Each individual broker makes their own price and they take the opposite side of your trade. They offer you liquidity and the ability to trade by making a market for you and allowing you to trade with them.
Traditionally futures contracts were very large with high tick values, CFDs and spot forex allowed retail traders to get into the trading arena "commission free" trading mini or micro contracts. So a futures forex contract might have been $10/tick, but a mini spot forex contract could be traded at $1/pip, or a micro contract at $0.10/pip. Much less risk for those with small accounts.
Futures markets are now offering smaller contracts in some products to try and gain some of that business such as micro equity index futures.

Most day traders lose money so a company taking the opposite side of your bet is likely to make money anyway, but they are also making the spread on every single trade. I assume that they don't take the opposite side of your trade and hold it until you get out, but all their positions are just bundled together in their system for a contract, like the NQ and they just buy and sell from their holding to fill whatever customer order comes in, and presumably they have a first in first out type system so they are covering the contracts as quickly as possible to reduce holding time so just making the spread as much as possible and not benefiting or losing too much on directional moves. They might have one set of products that is having a very directional day so retail traders are keener trading one way or the other, but I imagine their books are being monitored in real time to ensure their holdings aren't biased too much in one direction, and perhaps if that happens they also offset risk by taking a hedge in the futures market in that product until they can bring it back to neutral. That's just me surmising what would sound logical. At the end of the day though they will have traders placing thousands of trades across a large range of contracts of different product types, and they will be collecting the spread on every trade and raking it in.


Dazzc View Post
Finally forgive the nosiness but I notice you are UK trader trading ES. I'm wondering what setup you use to get the best data/platform and broker in terms of cost effectiveness.

Trading the NQ rather than the ES. I like Jigsaw trading platform (The DOM pictured above). Tradovate are a good futures broker, or TSTrader through Topstep trader, a funding company.
But to be honest I am not quite in profit yet, but do feel I am finally well on the right track for a style of trading that is compatible for me and that I can execute calmly and without fear of loss preventing me clicking the mouse.
Not sure of your experience or how long you have been interested in this, but always bear in mind that most people lose money or give up quickly. Unless you are very unusual it will probably be a very long road best thought of as an interest that is likely to cost you money for a while (though that doesn't have to be blowing out accounts if sensible), and very few actually turn the corner to make consistent money.
Not meant to be a lecture. Good luck

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 ragic 
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Don't forget the Bund FGBL. A lot of the prop shops trade this... Good volume whereas the ES is thinner in UK mornings.

Also the margin on the Bund is $1000, whereas the ES mini is $13,000 and ES micro is $1300,

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Dazzc
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bobwest View Post
I have never traded CFD's either, because they are illegal in the United States.

The reason is simply that you are trading against your broker, not on an exchange where you are buying and selling with other traders. The opportunities for brokers to take advantage of the situation are pretty obvious. (Edit: this is not too different from spot forex, but there is a degree of regulation in the forex market. A large forex broker -- FXCM -- was recently banned from doing business in the United States for trading against their customers, rather than simply providing quotes and liquidity from outside sources, as they claimed.).


Thanks for the info. One point - if the actual CFD moves and tracks exactly the same as the underlying exchanged product with my broker would you consider this being a massive issue? The broker is a well known one within the UK.



bobwest View Post

The title of this thread is "Eurex Products Advice..." but you would not be trading on Eurex, an exchange, if you traded CFD's.

I am carrying out my analysis on the underlying exchange product so I can see footprint, delta, order flows and DOM etc.. then carrying out the execution on the CFD



bobwest View Post
Can you successfully trade CFD's anyway? I assume you can, but the game is somewhat tilted against you from the start. Just go into it with your eyes open.

I am mostly SIM trading at the moment, or very small amounts on CFDs as I am able to reduce my risk to really low levels. My plan is to be profitable with small amounts then slowly ramp up the risk or move to a futures contract/mini on underlying exchange.


bobwest View Post
There may be an advantage to CFD's in terms needing a smaller amount of money to get into them, but that is actually a danger too. Being underfunded is one of the best ways to lose your entire account quickly, because you can't withstand very many losing trades before you are out.

Be cautious here.

Bob.

Thanks for the heads up - always appreciated Cheers.

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  #18 (permalink)
Dazzc
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ragic View Post
Don't forget the Bund FGBL. A lot of the prop shops trade this... Good volume whereas the ES is thinner in UK mornings.

Also the margin on the Bund is $1000, whereas the ES mini is $13,000 and ES micro is $1300,

Cheers. I'll look into it. Is this a market you have had much success with?

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neil
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ragic View Post
Don't forget the Bund FGBL. A lot of the prop shops trade this... Good volume whereas the ES is thinner in UK mornings.

Also the margin on the Bund is $1000, whereas the ES mini is $13,000 and ES micro is $1300,

Regarding the ES Micro's - it is not $1300 it is a quarter of initial margin at TradeStation for example:

https://www.tradestation.com:443/pricing/futures-margin-requirements/

And less at AMP:https://www.ampfutures.com/trading-info/margins/

These are NOT overnight margins.
I note that I can trade Micro Futures on a small account on an open market (CME) whereas I might have less freedom ( due to account size) to trade full Futures or other instruments.
But that is not a problem since I feel more at ease within an open market and I trade just one instrument.
My only wish is for a USA type broker like those mentioned above , to open a UK office so that we (UK and maybe other Euro countries) can trade Micro's etc AND can fund an account using debit card or SEPA rather than expensive wire etc. I think, with the advent of the Micro's etc. that there is an untapped market for a FUTURES broker in the Uk/Europe to cater for us small time scalpers etc.
Even IB, which has a UK office insists on Wired funds!

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Dazzc
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Thanks for taking the time to post that Matthew.



matthew28 View Post
So none of this really matters, whether you pay a cost in the spread or a small commission, if you want to trade relatively infrequently for large targets. But if daytrading and especially scalping, you trade futures because you can place trades where you want and the exchange matches prices and the futures broker just facilitates the trade/provides margin. I have seen you say what tools you think might be useful for your trading, but not what sort of timeframe you imagine holding your trades for.


Timeframes I am looking at 30minutes to 1 hour per trade.





matthew28 View Post
Most day traders lose money so a company taking the opposite side of your bet is likely to make money anyway, but they are also making the spread on every single trade. I assume that they don't take the opposite side of your trade and hold it until you get out, but all their positions are just bundled together in their system for a contract, like the NQ and they just buy and sell from their holding to fill whatever customer order comes in, and presumably they have a first in first out type system so they are covering the contracts as quickly as possible to reduce holding time so just making the spread as much as possible and not benefiting or losing too much on directional moves. They might have one set of products that is having a very directional day so retail traders are keener trading one way or the other, but I imagine their books are being monitored in real time to ensure their holdings aren't biased too much in one direction, and perhaps if that happens they also offset risk by taking a hedge in the futures market in that product until they can bring it back to neutral. That's just me surmising what would sound logical. At the end of the day though they will have traders placing thousands of trades across a large range of contracts of different product types, and they will be collecting the spread on every trade and raking it in.

The broker I use does state on their website that "We hedge only when overall client exposure is skewed in one direction" So looks like you are correct Matthew. So I assume for instance if the market is trending down drastically and most of their clients are correctly shorting/selling. How would they "hedge" in this situation - I assume they would be placing short orders into the market to hedge against all the clients who have "Sold" to them I.e. they have a high "buy/long" position overall so need to short against this in line with their clients?


matthew28 View Post
Trading the NQ rather than the ES. I like Jigsaw trading platform (The DOM pictured above). Tradovate are a good futures broker, or TSTrader through Topstep trader, a funding company.
But to be honest I am not quite in profit yet, but do feel I am finally well on the right track for a style of trading that is compatible for me and that I can execute calmly and without fear of loss preventing me clicking the mouse.
Not sure of your experience or how long you have been interested in this, but always bear in mind that most people lose money or give up quickly. Unless you are very unusual it will probably be a very long road best thought of as an interest that is likely to cost you money for a while (though that doesn't have to be blowing out accounts if sensible), and very few actually turn the corner to make consistent money.
Not meant to be a lecture. Good luck

Cheers I'll check that setup out - I am more or less taking it as you say as an "interest" or hobby and slowly trying to gain knowledge hear and there. I'd be interested to know how you have developed in terms of turning the corner in terms of any advice/websites or strategies you think I should be looking into.

Once again thanks

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 bobwest 
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Dazzc View Post
Thanks for the info. One point - if the actual CFD moves and tracks exactly the same as the underlying exchanged product with my broker would you consider this being a massive issue? The broker is a well known one within the UK

...

I am carrying out my analysis on the underlying exchange product so I can see footprint, delta, order flows and DOM etc.. then carrying out the execution on the CFD

...

I am mostly SIM trading at the moment, or very small amounts on CFDs as I am able to reduce my risk to really low levels. My plan is to be profitable with small amounts then slowly ramp up the risk or move to a futures contract/mini on underlying exchange.

I'm glad you're doing your due diligence research; my general answer is to repeat what I said before, that I have never traded CFD's, and obviously not with your broker, so I can't respond in detail. I try not to talk too much about things I don't know much about.

I do know some of the general cautions, and wanted to make sure that you did, too.

As with anything else, experience will probably be your best guide, once you have taken all available information into account and have thought over its meaning for you.

Good luck, and I hope to read about your successes.

Bob.

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Dazzc
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neil View Post
My only wish is for a USA type broker like those mentioned above , to open a UK office so that we (UK and maybe other Euro countries) can trade Micro's etc AND can fund an account using debit card or SEPA rather than expensive wire etc. I think, with the advent of the Micro's etc. that there is an untapped market for a FUTURES broker in the Uk/Europe to cater for us small time scalpers etc.
Even IB, which has a UK office insists on Wired funds!

I was thinking of moving to IB. I know you mentioned AMP to me, I'd be interested to know your advices with IB if you did have any experience using them. I suppose also you are more protected with a UK office as it would have to be FCA regulated.

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Dazzc View Post
I was thinking of moving to IB. I know you mentioned AMP to me, I'd be interested to know your advices with IB if you did have any experience using them. I suppose also you are more protected with a UK office as it would have to be FCA regulated.

I do not know a lot about IB but they have been around since dinosaurs roamed the earth, and like them, are a very big company :-)
They do not go in for hand holding and are for people who are confident in what they do. I have not heard bad reports about them. I will not promote who I am with in case I transgress some thread rule.
FCA relates to UK entities but USA are just as good, if not more strict.
My main point was that it is a pity we ( in the UK) do not have a Futures broker for some products like the Dow etc that caters for the little guy AND accepts funding via Debit card. Yes, IB has a UK office but only accepts wires not debit cards ( notice I said "debit" not "credit"). Funding would be so much easier. Being a tightwad I like to avoid bank charges for wires. Yes, I have a US broker but I funded via an intermediary such as Torfx to get a better exchange rate to fund my USA account in dollars. Should my profits permit, I can reverse engineer dollars to Torfx and convert back into pounds sterling.
I think some brokers in the USA allow you to fund a USA account from the UK via 'SEPA' ( The USA broker utilises a UK bank via SEPA to fund your USA account) - Google it and check with your bank for accuracy. Some brokers allow the use of the likes of Torfx to fund a USA account ( thus better exchange rate and lower charges) which means US brokerages are not out of reach or awkward to fund
Me thinks I have strayed off your original topic so I will stop.
Please bear in mind I am a small time Micro Index trader with little experience of the bigger world of trading or complicated trading approaches outside of long/short and win or lose.

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 matthew28 
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Dazzc View Post
I'd be interested to know how you have developed in terms of turning the corner in terms of any advice/websites or strategies you think I should be looking into.

I'll come back to you on that as until I actually have consistency with real money, I am like everybody else who thinks they are "almost there", and within a few posts this will have turned into a thread with everybody recommending their chosen indicator, or educator/methodology etc.

Some people swear by order flow, others think there is too much spoofing in the order books, or hedging activity to make the traded volume readable, so prefer indicators, or news/macro catalysts etc.
All I can suggest is look around at things and only consider something if it actually make logical sense to you as to why that methodology might be profitable. At the end of the day you only make money on long positions if other people want to buy the market after you have and vice versa (and your trading time frame determines how quickly you want them to do that).

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
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Dazzc
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bobwest View Post

Good luck, and I hope to read about your successes.

Bob.

Cheers Bob and thanks for your input on my questions much appreciated as always.

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Dazzc
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neil View Post
I do not know a lot about IB but they have been around since dinosaurs roamed the earth, and like them, are a very big company :-)
They do not go in for hand holding and are for people who are confident in what they do. I have not heard bad reports about them. I will not promote who I am with in case I transgress some thread rule.
FCA relates to UK entities but USA are just as good, if not more strict.
My main point was that it is a pity we ( in the UK) do not have a Futures broker for some products like the Dow etc that caters for the little guy AND accepts funding via Debit card. Yes, IB has a UK office but only accepts wires not debit cards ( notice I said "debit" not "credit"). Funding would be so much easier. Being a tightwad I like to avoid bank charges for wires. Yes, I have a US broker but I funded via an intermediary such as Torfx to get a better exchange rate to fund my USA account in dollars. Should my profits permit, I can reverse engineer dollars to Torfx and convert back into pounds sterling.
I think some brokers in the USA allow you to fund a USA account from the UK via 'SEPA' ( The USA broker utilises a UK bank via SEPA to fund your USA account) - Google it and check with your bank for accuracy. Some brokers allow the use of the likes of Torfx to fund a USA account ( thus better exchange rate and lower charges) which means US brokerages are not out of reach or awkward to fund
Me thinks I have strayed off your original topic so I will stop.
Please bear in mind I am a small time Micro Index trader with little experience of the bigger world of trading or complicated trading approaches outside of long/short and win or lose.

Cheers Neil thats some good info me to to research there thanks for letting me know

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Dazzc
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matthew28 View Post
I'll come back to you on that as until I actually have consistency with real money,


I am like everybody else who thinks they are "almost there", and within a few posts this will have turned into a thread with everybody recommending their chosen indicator, or educator/methodology etc.

Some people swear by order flow, others think there is too much spoofing in the order books, or hedging activity to make the traded volume readable, so prefer indicators, or news/macro catalysts etc.
All I can suggest is look around at things and only consider something if it actually make logical sense to you as to why that methodology might be profitable. At the end of the day you only make money on long positions if other people want to buy the market after you have and vice versa (and your trading time frame determines how quickly you want them to do that).


Cheers Matthew, thanks for the advice and best of luck going forward.

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