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OK- this question is for my wife.

  #61 (permalink)
 
AllSeeker's Avatar
 AllSeeker 
Mumbai, India
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bobwest View Post
Since I have no relevant experience with automated systems, I don't know the answer.

There are people who have written on the subject. Kevin Davey ( @kevinkdog ) comes to mind. I keep thinking I should read his book, but it's about automated trading, which I have not gotten into. But experienced traders who are into it have spoken well of the book, and I know him from many years on this forum and highly respect his views and experience.

If I were dealing with issues in building and testing/developing an automated system, this is where I would turn first.

Bob.

I hope he gets the time to reply and yes, I plan to read those books as well. Its just that right now my financial ability is not enough to run automated accounts and in India it introduces other variables like unstable API and data feeds that I don't want to get into dealing at the moment on my own, my coding knowledge is not enough to cover those areas on my own either.

What I was trying to get at was for system of discretionary trader, lets say I've been trading a strategy successfully, and during backtests its shown to go bad on 10 consecutive times but no more than that, I follow that system to best of my ability and just this one time, suddnly it gives me more than 10 consecutive losses, wouldn't that indicate market changes irrespective of the automated or discretionary trading?


Bionan View Post
One thing I found after switching from time based charts to tick charts is that bar size must be changed periodically to match volatility. If your account is big nough to trade the increased volatility & risk, the same strategy may work essentially in another time frame. This can be seen visually by adjusting bar size to smooth out whipsaws or tails, and probably algorithmically by measuring for volatility a number of ways. I saw that this last week in a trading range strategy when a 1000 tick chart was showing late entries and bars that were too large to trade effectively in a tight trading range market due to a small range (I believe it was the ES on Wednesday). By changing to 500 tick bars the reversals worked beautifully and the legs were very tradable. But in a more volatile situation for the ES, 500 tick bars would be too small and lead to frequent premature stopouts.

This is when I began to see that for me the answer may be a combination of computer based strategies and visual market analysis do decide when to apply them.

Rick

Agreed, in fact I've posted recently something similar in some thread, time frame based charts have very little difference in terms of price action or indicator behaviours, meaning if it works on one TF it should in theory work on other too just as fine with same settings.

However, my concern has been changes in volatility, take for example, I trade mainly options, Nifty ATM index option usually hovers around 100 point premium on Monday, and it will generally move 30-40 points up and down depending on the market movements for the day but sometimes index would move a lot more than average stdv OR there will be heightened IV, and my trade gets stopped out due to premium spikes against me. This is just not issue with me getting stopped out, it is also change in market conditions that may be either for that day only or indicating complete change in market behaviour in upcoming days.

I feel if I want to make money regularly, I need to have some handle on this, to indicate change and ideally have a different strategy to handle them, hence my query to bobwent when he mentioned these things in his post.

//I'm not sure if I'm making any sense here, sounds like rambling of mad man

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  #62 (permalink)
 133usd 
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LastDino View Post
I'm happy bachelor, but yeah, its difficult to get wife or even girlfriends who agrees to all this, if you managed it then good on you

Same here, happily enjoying bachelorhood. I made an extra $2k trading last week so now I'll reward myself with something cool...maybe a drone I'm thinking! The point is, I get to do whatever I want! Heck yes! There's nobody else to shut down my ideas or purchases.

Trading can be a serious hobby or a hybrid of part hobby/part time/full time income. The only way to get to part time or full time income, is to practice. Or in the case of algos, build the systems and test them till they fail. Your first 1-3 systems will probably fail, right? Just expect it, it's not a big deal. Don't wager huge $$ on the first 2 systems. Enjoy the process. Learn to code. There should be NO pressure to immediately succeed at any of this stuff, period!

At least the Algo has no emotions, that's a huge plus. And maybe have that algo trade only a set window of time. Minimize your exposure in the market. I know I have screwed up many trades simply due to emotions.

If I had to be married and be in this business, I would pick a woman who also is in this realm. A female Quant? From a top university...who maybe has access to some code from work Think about it, opportunity!

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  #63 (permalink)
 
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 AllSeeker 
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Legendary Pratik_4Clover
 
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133usd View Post
Same here, happily enjoying bachelorhood. I made an extra $2k trading last week so now I'll reward myself with something cool...maybe a drone I'm thinking! The point is, I get to do whatever I want! Heck yes! There's nobody else to shut down my ideas or purchases.

Trading can be a serious hobby or a hybrid of part hobby/part time/full time income. The only way to get to part time or full time income, is to practice. Or in the case of algos, build the systems and test them till they fail. Your first 1-3 systems will probably fail, right? Just expect it, it's not a big deal. Don't wager huge $$ on the first 2 systems. Enjoy the process. Learn to code. There should be NO pressure to immediately succeed at any of this stuff, period!

At least the Algo has no emotions, that's a huge plus. And maybe have that algo trade only a set window of time. Minimize your exposure in the market. I know I have screwed up many trades simply due to emotions.

If I had to be married and be in this business, I would pick a woman who also is in this realm. A female Quant? From a top university...who maybe has access to some code from work Think about it, opportunity!

Haha, I wish that would come true, its unfortunate that I don't come across any females at all in this field in my know how circle. Its kind of crazy man's pipe dream field atm, there are few guys "acting" as girls to give tips on telegram and other social media though (not taking any names but you can tell when extremely cute profile picture appears with bullshit analysis), that attracts good amount of interest from "wanna be young traders"

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  #64 (permalink)
 133usd 
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LastDino View Post
Haha, I wish that would come true, its unfortunate that I don't come across any females at all in this field in my know how circle. Its kind of crazy man's pipe dream field atm, there are few guys "acting" as girls to give tips on telegram and other social media though (not taking any names but you can tell when extremely cute profile picture appears with bullshit analysis), that attracts good amount of interest from "wanna be young traders"


...They also use extremely cute girls to be spies! So watch out, haha. Hey I like your Avatar with the dog, it's pretty funny I'd say.

I want to know if OP got permission from his wife to code the dream Algo. I found code on GitHub you can copy paste as a starting point, but needs customizing.

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  #65 (permalink)
 Bionan 
Palm Harbor, Florida/USA
 
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133usd View Post
...They also use extremely cute girls to be spies! So watch out, haha. Hey I like your Avatar with the dog, it's pretty funny I'd say.

I want to know if OP got permission from his wife to code the dream Algo. I found code on GitHub you can copy paste as a starting point, but needs customizing.

Actually, she still leans toward using strategies, but overseeing them manually. Through all these replies, I am beginning to wonder if she maybe correct. I couldn't relocate the post or author, but someone made a statement along the lines that as difficult as it is to code a strategy, it maybe a better use of my time to spend it developing another trading skill.

I think he may be 60% right. Most of my background has been in discretionary trading. In the time I have been creating strategies I have come up with one trending strategy which seems to backtest well in long or short trending markets. I even have it set up so that it doesn't get killed in trading range markets, although it can't win in those. I have another strategy that makes money using the MES on days like today (10/13/2020) which are mostly sideways markets, but it gets slaughtered in trending markets. I would like to develop it a little more to try and keep it from trading as much as possible in those markets, then focus on developing the knowledge I acquired in reading price action to mostly apply the correct strategy at the correct time. If I can develop those strategies to have some forgiveness in case I am wrong, I think it will make both of us happy.

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  #66 (permalink)
JBroex
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Let me spin this discussion in a different direction...

How does your learning curve in becoming profitable look if you take a workshop where you do the process of testing in a correct way? Obviously it becomes much steeper, but how long would you guess it would take to become profitable? or how many strategies are necessary?
So in this case you start (with a solid background) from zero but you do the testing in a correct way?

Anyone who had any experience?

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  #67 (permalink)
 Bionan 
Palm Harbor, Florida/USA
 
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JBroex View Post
Let me spin this discussion in a different direction...

How does your learning curve in becoming profitable look if you take a workshop where you do the process of testing in a correct way? Obviously it becomes much steeper, but how long would you guess it would take to become profitable? or how many strategies are necessary?
So in this case you start (with a solid background) from zero but you do the testing in a correct way?

Anyone who had any experience?

I would ask if you know of one, but Istanbul would be a long commute from Florida.

Then there is also Kevin Davey's book.

Rick

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  #68 (permalink)
JBroex
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Bionan View Post
I would ask if you know of one, but Istanbul would be a long commute from Florida.



Then there is also Kevin Davey's book.



Rick



Well its worth the trip I can assure you
But unfortunately i dont think there are many system traders here in Turkey...




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  #69 (permalink)
 Bionan 
Palm Harbor, Florida/USA
 
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JBroex View Post
Well its worth the trip I can assure you
But unfortunately i dont think there are many system traders here in Turkey...




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I would like to see Ephesus.

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  #70 (permalink)
JBroex
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Bionan View Post
I would like to see Ephesus.

Actually I havent seen it yet

Have been here for 13 years and havent visited Ephesus yet. I have seen other parts which are also very beautiful, like Capadoccia, the east or the west coast. And not to forget Istanbul of course

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