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Spoofing,Bluff Orders, Manipulation?


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Spoofing,Bluff Orders, Manipulation?

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  #1 (permalink)
Atlanta Ga. USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT8,ThinkorSwim,
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Posts: 60 since Mar 2017
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Is this currently taking place in USA indice futures trading. The DB traders on trial state the bluffing is common and that their senior bosses taught them spoofing?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/fraud-or-bluff-ex-deutsche-bank-traders-on-trial-for-spoofing

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  #2 (permalink)
Boca Raton, FL
 
 
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Every heard the expression - the dog ate my homework?

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  #3 (permalink)
tampa florida
 
 
Posts: 63 since Sep 2020


all the time everyday in the microsecond
wash trades too
all of it is bull when you let a for profit exchange regulate itself notice they put a man a perosn on house arrest for a BS spoof charge but still let the big banks steal millions and millions and when they are finally on purpose caught they just fine them and the gov keeps the money. you dont get anything back and what about
that self regulation thing?

the cme barely even watches much at the command center because they dont want too!!

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  #4 (permalink)
garopaba + santa catarina
 
 
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This happens since the beginning of time.

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  #5 (permalink)
Portland, ME
 
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Tradarr View Post
Is this currently taking place in USA indice futures trading. The DB traders on trial state the bluffing is common and that their senior bosses taught them spoofing?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/fraud-or-bluff-ex-deutsche-bank-traders-on-trial-for-spoofing

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The CME will let you cancel orders so long as you had actual intent on getting filled on those cancelled orders. If your orders sit for even 1 second, that's all it takes to get filled. Their definition of "spoofing" is pretty thin and flexible...
People/programs will change their mind.

But yeah, it seems like the exchange wants to go after these small retail guys like Nav (autistic trader in UK) simply because he was canceling high volume of orders. Yet the big companies have gotten away with it for a very very long time. Nav was a talented trader though, he had actual ability beyond the bit of spoofing he did.

The CME isn't a fan of little retail traders, that much I can tell you.

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  #6 (permalink)
Portland, ME
 
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133usd View Post
The CME will let you cancel orders so long as you had actual intent on getting filled on those cancelled orders. If your orders sit for even 1 second, that's all it takes to get filled. Their definition of "spoofing" is pretty thin and flexible...
People/programs will change their mind.

But yeah, it seems like the exchange wants to go after these small retail guys like Nav (autistic trader in UK) simply because he was canceling high volume of orders. Yet the big companies have gotten away with it for a very very long time. Nav was a talented trader though, he had actual ability beyond the bit of spoofing he did.

The CME isn't a fan of little retail traders, that much I can tell you.



Oh and something really suspicious I see all the time...Pulling of icebergs (ok they realized they have a swarm of momentum against them and changed their mind...)

Or --- wash trades/painting the tape. Basically you'll see the tape show sell orders 1,4,3,10,5,15...Then a second later the exact same for market buy orders. Or since I can't see the order information (yes the exchange has a unique ID linked to your account!), that could be 2 different parties and one of them is matching the other side. But definitely sticks out as ODD to me.

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  #7 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
 
Posts: 81 since May 2018
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Gauer View Post
This happens since the beginning of time.

This is correct. Have you noticed how many fake pull backs and breakouts happen everyday in ES alone? Doesn't matter the time frame. The government doesn't care about hedge funds doing spoofing or whatever other 'legit' techniques they implement. All they care about is, making millions everyday.

P.S. ES is a mess sometimes if you look at it (any time frame) - it goes 4 ticks up, 5 down, 3 up, 4 down, 7 up, 9 down like WTF. Eventually, a fake breakout and it will take out thousands of retailers in an instant. GG.

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  #8 (permalink)
Portland, ME
 
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lightsun47 View Post
This is correct. Have you noticed how many fake pull backs and breakouts happen everyday in ES alone? Doesn't matter the time frame. The government doesn't care about hedge funds doing spoofing or whatever other 'legit' techniques they implement. All they care about is, making millions everyday.

P.S. ES is a mess sometimes if you look at it (any time frame) - it goes 4 ticks up, 5 down, 3 up, 4 down, 7 up, 9 down like WTF. Eventually, a fake breakout and it will take out thousands of retailers in an instant. GG.

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The professional manipulators use multiple corporations/entities to wash trade with themselves. Your broker has surveillance software to red flag you if any exchange rules that get broken and they will give you a warning.
So it's not as lax as you would think. Now your broker has an incentive to police their accounts, as their FCM or themselves as an IB could get fined, I believe that's how it works. There are traders who accidentally break rules, and they seem quick to scold you depending on what broker.

Today was a perfect day to anticipate "manipulation". You pre-empt them by trading small, using limit orders at support and resistance, and keeping your powder dry to add to those positions in order to get a more favorable price. The fakeouts aren't fakeouts if you anticipate them. And on normal days, it may not be a problem, as price will just trend nicely and not allow for manipulation, because the volume is there...but I often ask myself, is this true volume? Is there a good reason on higher TF to go counter-trend? If so, I go counter trend.

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  #9 (permalink)
Albuquerque, NM, USA
 
 
Posts: 59 since Jul 2012
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Ran across an old interview of Jim Cramer explaining price manipulation. Pretty interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6gxPCurDJs&

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