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Margins for MES


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Margins for MES

  #1 (permalink)
 
AndrasNagy's Avatar
 AndrasNagy 
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How can AMP Futures charge $40 for intraday when all others charge $1220? Even IB charges $1200, TD Ameritrade charges $1220.

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  #2 (permalink)
ondafringe
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AndrasNagy View Post
How can AMP Futures charge $40 for intraday when all others charge $1220? Even IB charges $1200, TD Ameritrade charges $1220.

Actually, for MES, AMP only charges $40 for intraday and overnight. The only time they require $1,200 is if you hold for the last five minutes of the session, from 1555 -1600 CT.

How they do it and why they do it that way, don't really know, but it sure helps when you're first getting started. However, they have increased day trading margins during times of extreme high volatility, all the way up to requiring the full $1,200 for intraday.

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  #3 (permalink)
 jamrock 
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they do it to make more money they do iut because they ahve a very robust and slow risk check process.
fills could be affected but who knows the really bigger money has no risk check therefore very very fast.


ever wonder why your cancels are so damn fast? there is no risk check on a cancel!!
that is how fast the mkt is when you dont have a risk check

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AndrasNagy View Post
How can AMP Futures charge $40 for intraday when all others charge $1220? Even IB charges $1200, TD Ameritrade charges $1220.

Ninja Brokerage $50 intraday last I checked.

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 crw128 
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lexknight View Post
Ninja Brokerage $50 intraday last I checked.

Yes. Same here.

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 choke35 
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CME MES maintenance margin is $1,200 at the moment.
https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/e-mini-sandp500_performance_bonds.html#sortField=exchange&sortAsc=true&clearingCode=MES&sector=EQUITY+INDEX&exchange=CME&pageNumber=1

The business benefits of low-margin brokers?

Low-margin brokers normally
  • credit the difference between CME and "house" margin upfront (regularly causing higher interest)
  • while simultaneously inducing trading on size, resulting in higher commissions. (A very naive trader would/will turn multiples of contracts compared with the basic CME margin.)
But guess who is held responsible for the liability of the ($1,200 - x) times the number of contracts in case of an adverse event ...

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 bobwest 
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AndrasNagy View Post
How can AMP Futures charge $40 for intraday when all others charge $1220? Even IB charges $1200, TD Ameritrade charges $1220.

Brokers can require anything they like for intraday margin. The CME only imposes minimum limits on contracts held "overnight" (past the regular hours close.)

Lots of brokers require around $40 or $50 a contract for micro index intraday trading. It is not unusual with the larger emini contracts to see intraday margin around $500, which is consistent with $50 for the micros.... intraday. But to hold it past the close, you will be in the realm of the CME margin requirements, and that's where you will see the higher dollar range.

Of course, there are brokers that do not have super-low intraday margins too, simply because they are not trying to attract the customers who are looking for that high a level of leverage, or perhaps who can't afford to put up more. For intraday trading, it's a business decision by the broker. Outside of intraday, it's an exchange requirement.

Bob.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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ondafringe
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bobwest View Post
The CME only imposes minimum limits on contracts held "overnight" (past the regular hours close.)

Not true. See my post above.

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 bobwest 
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bobwest View Post
Brokers can require anything they like for intraday margin. The CME only imposes minimum limits on contracts held "overnight" (past the regular hours close.)

Lots of brokers require around $40 or $50 a contract for micro index intraday trading. It is not unusual with the larger emini contracts to see intraday margin around $500, which is consistent with $50 for the micros.... intraday. But to hold it past the close, you will be in the realm of the CME margin requirements, and that's where you will see the higher dollar range.

Of course, there are brokers that do not have super-low intraday margins too, simply because they are not trying to attract the customers who are looking for that high a level of leverage, or perhaps who can't afford to put up more. For intraday trading, it's a business decision by the broker. Outside of intraday, it's an exchange requirement.

Bob.


ondafringe View Post
Not true. See my post above.


ondafringe View Post
Actually, for MES, AMP only charges $40 for intraday and overnight. The only time they require $1,200 is if you hold for the last five minutes of the session, from 1555 -1600 CT.

How they do it and why they do it that way, don't really know, but it sure helps when you're first getting started. However, they have increased day trading margins during times of extreme high volatility, all the way up to requiring the full $1,200 for intraday.

Well, OK.

We're using some terms a little differently, that's all.

You need to have the CME-required margin if you hold at the ETH close at 1600 CT, to be more precise.

When I mentioned holding "overnight," I simply mean past the daily close. With electronic trading, there is not much "night" involved, but the trading day ends at 1600 and the next "day" begins after the one-hour break that ends at 1700. Holding over this period, that is, having a position between the close and the open, is referred to as "holding overnight," at least that is what I meant. You're not really holding it during a whole night.

This is why they require CME maintenance margin (which is $1,200 for MES now) at that time. If you sold right before the close and bought again at the ETH open at 1700, you would never need more than the broker's intraday margin, $40 or $50 or whatever it is for your broker.

Other brokers do the same, depending on what their intraday margins are. Brokers also boost their intraday margins during times of high volatility, because of the higher risk of traders dropping below their required margin.

I went to the AMP web site to see how they put it, and this is what they say:

Quoting 
Margins Explanation: (Maintenance vs. DayTrade)

Maintenance Margin is set by the exchange. This is the amount required to carry a contract past the daily close.

DayTrade Margin is set by AMP Global. This is the amount required to enter into a position per contract on an intraday basis. These margins are in effect anytime the market is open, except the last 5 minutes of each trading session. AMP Gobal request that you either flatten open positions or meet the exchange required maintenance margin during this time period.

(Source: https://www.ampfutures.com/trading-info/margins/ )

So, however you slice it, the point is that the broker can set the intraday margin, but if you're holding after that, it's up to the CME. And it's not just AMP; the same applies to all brokers. Not all have such low intraday margins, though, but some do.

Bob.

--------------

Edit: I just realized that I said "past the regular hours close" in my first post, which is not right, and not what I meant to say -- it's past the electronic close, not the RTH close. So I added a little confusion with this, and wanted to correct it here.

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  #10 (permalink)
ondafringe
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And just to flesh the AMP thing a bit more...

For the big money traders out there, AMP's intraday/overnight margins for ES *double* if your account balance is $100k or higher.

So instead of $400, it would be $800...

Same thing for MES, but doubt anyone would trade MES with $100k to work with!

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Last Updated on September 22, 2020


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