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Trading combine maximum Micro contracts


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Trading combine maximum Micro contracts

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  #1 (permalink)
Brussels, Belgium
 
 
Posts: 5 since Jul 2020
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Hello! Aside from Earn2Trade, is there any similar trading combine where the maximum amount of open Micro E-Mini contracts is correctly reflected as 10 times the regular amount of E-Mini contracts? Thank you!

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  #2 (permalink)
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I think you might not understand the differences between the micros and e-minis. They are two separate instruments, so open interest is never a 10:1 proposition. Here are yesterday's open interest for MES and ES respectively:

Micro E-mini ES


E-mini ES

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  #3 (permalink)
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Hello, no sorry, these companies offer a "combine" with rules you have to follow and amongst which is a maximum number of tradeable contracts. Now, some of them are strict : if it is maximum 10 contracts, it is 10 weither for ES or MES. And some consider the 10:1 ratio of micros so offer 10 ES but 100 MES. This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!

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  #4 (permalink)
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Null065 View Post
Hello, no sorry, these companies offer a "combine" with rules you have to follow and amongst which is a maximum number of tradeable contracts. Now, some of them are strict : if it is maximum 10 contracts, it is 10 weither for ES or MES. And some consider the 10:1 ratio of micros so offer 10 ES but 100 MES. This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!

I never heard of combines, so thanks for educating me. Here is one I stumbled across that maybe you would be interested in: https://help.topsteptrader.com/hc/en-us/categories/203775488-Trading-Combine-

I hope that helps!

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  #5 (permalink)
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They are an example of what I don't like/understand :

"Please Note: Micros products are considered full-sized lots in the Topstep program. For example, 1 lot in ES is considered the same as 1 lot in MES in regards to the Maximum Position Size."

Which means that on their most expensive offer, the maximum position is 15 ES (huge) or 15 MES (tiny). Doesn't make any sense to me.

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The main Combine has always been for Trading full size contracts. They added the Micros as available products recently simply as an extra but I agree it wouldn't make sense to choose a full size Combine if you only wanted to trade micros as the profit targets are so much higher.
I presume the way their Combine software is written doesn't allow them to differentiate between products otherwise they would be able to set a higher number of contracts for Micro products. That would also allow them to use product specific commission and fees instead of the same amount for all products.

If you want a Micro Combine the only current option with TST is their Swing Trading Combine with 5 lots max, and a $1000 profit target.
https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/micros-futures-overview/

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  #7 (permalink)
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Null065 View Post
They are an example of what I don't like/understand :

"Please Note: Micros products are considered full-sized lots in the Topstep program. For example, 1 lot in ES is considered the same as 1 lot in MES in regards to the Maximum Position Size."

Which means that on their most expensive offer, the maximum position is 15 ES (huge) or 15 MES (tiny). Doesn't make any sense to me.


matthew28 View Post
The main Combine has always been for Trading full size contracts. They added the Micros as available products recently simply as an extra but I agree it wouldn't make sense to choose a full size Combine if you only wanted to trade micros as the profit targets are so much higher.
I presume the way their Combine software is written doesn't allow them to differentiate between products otherwise they would be able to set a higher number of contracts for Micro products. That would also allow them to use product specific commission and fees instead of the same amount for all products.

If you want a Micro Combine the only current option with TST is their Swing Trading Combine with 5 lots max, and a $1000 profit target.
https://www.topsteptrader.com:443/micros-futures-overview/

I agree that the way that micros are treated in the TST regular Combine is odd. There would basically be no point in trading them with those conditions.

The more appropriate way for them to incorporate them would be to scale up the number of allowed contracts based on the instrument, as @matthew28 says, but that probably would involve a serious software change, and to their funded account as well as the Combine, because they use the allowed number of contracts to control the risk they take on when they fund a trader (and the risk the trader takes in a Combine.)

When TST introduced their special micro Combine, which they do offer, they set everything up for swing trading, allowing traders to hold overnight and using very different assumptions about the goals of micro traders compared to mini day traders. I think this might be a worthwhile option if this kind of trading appeals to you, but it's probably not what the typical micro trader has in mind.

My view has always been that when the micros were introduced, they pretty much eliminated the use of Combines and similar programs as a low-cost pathway to live trading, except for traders who were already able to trade well and just were looking for a backer. Today, I think it makes more sense for many traders and would-be traders to simply scrape together a little cash and open a real brokerage account to trade micros. Then use this as a low-risk way to either learn to trade or to build up some capital, and then, perhaps, do a Combine to break into the emini sized contract when they are ready... or just keep building with the capital they made in micros.

I think it would be better for these companies, in the sense of having a better-designed product line, to offer micro trading also, with appropriate adjustments based on the contract size, but realistically I don't think it would be a good deal for the trader. Just trade the micros for real, live in a cash account. It takes a few hundred bucks for margin and it's live trading, the best way to learn if that's what someone is looking for. And you keep the profits right away, but losses are small because you didn't put up much.

There's still a place for Combine-type programs, but mainly for people who believe they don't need the slow approach, and can jump right into getting funded in one or two months (probably everyone who starts a Combine thinks they are already in this category -- and probably the usual 95% or so are wrong, just as most traders will lose when they start out, but it takes the experience to find this out. Another good use for a Combine. )

-------------------

By the way, although I guess it was inevitable for this to happen, the term "Combine" is actually a trademarked term of TST. It started to be used for all the other similar programs (although not by the companies themselves) once the TST Combine became popular enough to have competitors. It's just nit-picking on my part probably, but I for one would prefer to keep that term just for the originaing company. The others have their own terms for it, like "Gauntlet" and so on. I recongnize it's probably just like the way "Kleenex" now means any tissue, and I'm not going to hold back the tide on this one. Just a small comment....

Of course, TST stole the term from the NFL (National Football League, for non-US residents... and it's not the game they call "football" outside the US either. ). The NFL has an event they call the "Combine," which is a series of tasks prospective players can elect to go through to impress NFL team scouts to draft them.

(Unimportant historical trivia.)

Bob.

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  #8 (permalink)
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bobwest View Post
By the way, although I guess it was inevitable for this to happen, the term "Combine" is actually a trademarked term of TST. It started to be used for all the other similar programs (although not by the companies themselves) once the TST Combine became popular enough to have competitors. It's just nit-picking on my part probably, but I for one would prefer to keep that term just for the originaing company.

I'll nitpick with you, Bob. I noticed the trademark yesterday when I was learning about it, which annoyed me for some reason. They abandoned the trademark earlier this year, so it is a dead trademark (Trading Combine to be specific). They are using (R) symbol, but they shouldn't, since the applied for a service mark (SM) instead.

There is a lot of misuse around that symbol and is one of my pet peeves, as it attempts to convey legitimacy to a business or brand. TM is acceptable to use, without having to go through the trademark process. (R) has a little more meat to it, since it requires (r)egistration and offers better protection of a brand.

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  #9 (permalink)
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vmodus View Post
I'll nitpick with you, Bob. I noticed the trademark yesterday when I was learning about it, which annoyed me for some reason. They abandoned the trademark earlier this year, so it is a dead trademark (Trading Combine to be specific). They are using (R) symbol, but they shouldn't, since the applied for a service mark (SM) instead.

There is a lot of misuse around that symbol and is one of my pet peeves, as it attempts to convey legitimacy to a business or brand. TM is acceptable to use, without having to go through the trademark process. (R) has a little more meat to it, since it requires (r)egistration and offers better protection of a brand.

And it's now basically gone generic in a way.

As I mentioned, TST basically swiped it from the NFL Combine, but at least the type of business is very different.

In the trading world, TST first started using it years ago (maybe 7?), when they started, and when there were no others doing this particular kind of thing that I know of (there have been prop firms forever, but this is a new twist, with the online evaluation. As far as I know it was new anyway.) In the last few years they suddenly had a lot of competition and I suppose they wanted to claim what they had been using all along. The other guys are not using the term; I've just seen it used, basically informally, by traders talking about evaluation/funding services generically. I have to admit that it's simpler to just type "combine," and people pretty much know what you mean.

Bob.

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