Emini 4 Tick Scalp still valid? - futures io
futures io futures trading



Emini 4 Tick Scalp still valid?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated by vinchaels
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Tripken with 5 posts (5 thanks)
    2. looks_two ApolloEleven with 5 posts (7 thanks)
    3. looks_3 ondafringe with 4 posts (10 thanks)
    4. looks_4 jamrock with 4 posts (4 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one michaelleemoore with 9.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ondafringe with 2.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 ApolloEleven with 1.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Tripken with 1.0 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 3,923 views
    2. thumb_up 51 thanks given
    3. group 16 followers
    1. forum 30 replies
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Emini 4 Tick Scalp still valid?

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
Mainz, Germany
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 21 given, 23 received

Hi Traders!

A lot of Scalpers in the Emini are going for a 4 tick scalp. A common practice is to take a profit after 1 point in the ES and maybe let go a small part of your position as a runner.

Al Brooks also mentions these 4 ticks as a first proft target and I regularly find scalp traders using this 4-Tick-Scalp Technique (PATs, Michael Chin).

But is this "rule" of 4 Ticks still valid? Right now the markets are very volatile and the emini often creates large candles where signalbars can have 16-20 ticks from high to low. (I'm trading 2000 Tick Charts) Also we are trading now at 3200 points, not at 1500 when traders already were scalping for these 4 ticks.

Wouldn't it make sense to adjust these 4-Tick / 1 Point Scalp or is this practice still valid? If so, I really see no other way than focussing on the smallest Signal Bars to be able to place my 8-Tick-Stop. This would lead to fewer trades per day and even fewer, when the Emini hits much higher value, 4000, 5000 or whatever.

So is this technique of scalping 4 ticks still valid? In my opinion, you need to adjust your profit target from 4 to 8 ticks and your stop loss from 8 to 16 ticks. But I'd really like to hear other opinions, especially from emini scalpers who maybe solved this issue or who still continue without adjusting!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to ApolloEleven for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Move indicator on Chart
NinjaTrader
NT8 Options Workspace SetUp-How to?
NinjaTrader
Want to learn about Superdrive Indicator
Traders Hideout
Anyone with Overcharts license/experience?
Platforms and Indicators
Conditions
ThinkOrSwim
 
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
Netherlands
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader 8
Broker: IB, NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: Futures
 
Mich62's Avatar
 
Posts: 302 since May 2012
Thanks: 312 given, 513 received


ApolloEleven View Post
Hi Traders!

A lot of Scalpers in the Emini are going for a 4 tick scalp. A common practice is to take a profit after 1 point in the ES and maybe let go a small part of your position as a runner.

Al Brooks also mentions these 4 ticks as a first proft target and I regularly find scalp traders using this 4-Tick-Scalp Technique (PATs, Michael Chin).

But is this "rule" of 4 Ticks still valid? Right now the markets are very volatile and the emini often creates large candles where signalbars can have 16-20 ticks from high to low. (I'm trading 2000 Tick Charts) Also we are trading now at 3200 points, not at 1500 when traders already were scalping for these 4 ticks.

Wouldn't it make sense to adjust these 4-Tick / 1 Point Scalp or is this practice still valid? If so, I really see no other way than focussing on the smallest Signal Bars to be able to place my 8-Tick-Stop. This would lead to fewer trades per day and even fewer, when the Emini hits much higher value, 4000, 5000 or whatever.

So is this technique of scalping 4 ticks still valid? In my opinion, you need to adjust your profit target from 4 to 8 ticks and your stop loss from 8 to 16 ticks. But I'd really like to hear other opinions, especially from emini scalpers who maybe solved this issue or who still continue without adjusting!

You can use the same setups on a lower time frame. I drilled down to the 10 sec chart. You still can adjust risk and target levels. However, I will only trade with higher time frame direction, momentum and levels although according to Bob Volman this isn't necessary and I think he might be right. Trade well.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Mich62 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Knoxville, TN/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Broker: TradeStation
Trading: ES
 
Tripken's Avatar
 
Posts: 561 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,315 given, 1,186 received


I agree, and have been doing exactly that since the daily range and ATR has increased. I'm using 8/16, the math is the same but even more surprising is that my win rate is higher. The 16 tick SL rarely gets approached while with 8 I was getting stopped more often. Also it's interesting to see that the MES/ES will give you a 4-6 tick profit then pullback and take out any runners at BE, doing much better going for 2 all at once even with 1 lot.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Tripken for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
Mainz, Germany
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 21 given, 23 received


Tripken View Post
I agree, and have been doing exactly that since the daily range and ATR has increased. I'm using 8/16, the math is the same but even more surprising is that my win rate is higher. The 16 tick SL rarely gets approached while with 8 I was getting stopped more often. Also it's interesting to see that the MES/ES will give you a 4-6 tick profit then pullback and take out any runners at BE, doing much better going for 2 all at once even with 1 lot.

Word! That's exactly what I've been experiencing - the Break-Even-Stop gets taken out quite often. Currently I'm trying out different approaches about my Stop and TP Levels. Right now I take out 3/4 of my position at 8 ticks profit and move the stop of my remaining runner to break even. It get's fished a lot of times.

What I've also noticed is, the ES creates far more 2000-tick-candles over the day than the MES. I have to adjust the MES to about 1200 ticks to get the same number of bars over a period of time as in the ES. Of course this varies from day to day and you shouldn't change your MES ticks all the time, BUT in my opinion you also have to adjust here and find out your prefered tick chart settings on the MES and can't simply copy the 2000 of the ES.

Maybe there is someone who trades the 2000-tick chart on the MES regardless of the differences above?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
Europe
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeNavigator, BookMap
Trading: ES, CL, 6E, 6B
 
Posts: 389 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 331 received

It's a long time ago I used tick-charts, but in your case for me it is crystal clear that I would chart the ES, if I would trade the MES

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to tr8er for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
Mainz, Germany
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 21 given, 23 received


tr8er View Post
It's a long time ago I used tick-charts, but in your case for me it is crystal clear that I would chart the ES, if I would trade the MES

Damn, how could I have missed that? Great advice, THANK YOU!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ApolloEleven for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
Knoxville, TN/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Broker: TradeStation
Trading: ES
 
Tripken's Avatar
 
Posts: 561 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,315 given, 1,186 received


ApolloEleven View Post
Word! That's exactly what I've been experiencing - the Break-Even-Stop gets taken out quite often. Currently I'm trying out different approaches about my Stop and TP Levels. Right now I take out 3/4 of my position at 8 ticks profit and move the stop of my remaining runner to break even. It get's fished a lot of times.

What I've also noticed is, the ES creates far more 2000-tick-candles over the day than the MES. I have to adjust the MES to about 1200 ticks to get the same number of bars over a period of time as in the ES. Of course this varies from day to day and you shouldn't change your MES ticks all the time, BUT in my opinion you also have to adjust here and find out your prefered tick chart settings on the MES and can't simply copy the 2000 of the ES.

Maybe there is someone who trades the 2000-tick chart on the MES regardless of the differences above?

I've been using 1000 tick MES, started at 500 but the volume continues to grow. I talked to a trader a while ago that used a 3 tick PT then moved his stop to -3 so BE was worse case and supposedly his runners did much better, IDK lots of ways to do it, good luck! I'm AIAO, it's not in me to hold runners, lol.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Knoxville, TN/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TradeStation
Broker: TradeStation
Trading: ES
 
Tripken's Avatar
 
Posts: 561 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,315 given, 1,186 received


ApolloEleven View Post
Damn, how could I have missed that? Great advice, THANK YOU!

Yes, that is the best of both worlds, I tried it but on Tradestation I can't see my PT/SL on the ES chart when trading the MES. It's very frustrating so in looking at both charts for many weeks I feel they're close enough for my style (Mack+) that I could move from MES to ES without any issues, we'll see!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Tripken for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
Mainz, Germany
 
 
Posts: 15 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 21 given, 23 received


Tripken View Post
Yes, that is the best of both worlds, I tried it but on Tradestation I can't see my PT/SL on the ES chart when trading the MES. It's very frustrating so in looking at both charts for many weeks I feel they're close enough for my style (Mack+) that I could move from MES to ES without any issues, we'll see!

I've even tried out a 1597 Tick Chart on the MES for a short time and it worked! Moving from 1000 Tick MES to 2000 Tick ES should be no problem

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ApolloEleven for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Santa Clara + California/USA
 
 
Posts: 7 since Feb 2020
Thanks: 12 given, 3 received



ApolloEleven View Post
Hi Traders!

A lot of Scalpers in the Emini are going for a 4 tick scalp. A common practice is to take a profit after 1 point in the ES and maybe let go a small part of your position as a runner.

Al Brooks also mentions these 4 ticks as a first proft target and I regularly find scalp traders using this 4-Tick-Scalp Technique (PATs, Michael Chin).

But is this "rule" of 4 Ticks still valid? Right now the markets are very volatile and the emini often creates large candles where signalbars can have 16-20 ticks from high to low. (I'm trading 2000 Tick Charts) Also we are trading now at 3200 points, not at 1500 when traders already were scalping for these 4 ticks.

Wouldn't it make sense to adjust these 4-Tick / 1 Point Scalp or is this practice still valid? If so, I really see no other way than focussing on the smallest Signal Bars to be able to place my 8-Tick-Stop. This would lead to fewer trades per day and even fewer, when the Emini hits much higher value, 4000, 5000 or whatever.

So is this technique of scalping 4 ticks still valid? In my opinion, you need to adjust your profit target from 4 to 8 ticks and your stop loss from 8 to 16 ticks. But I'd really like to hear other opinions, especially from emini scalpers who maybe solved this issue or who still continue without adjusting!

You may want to drop down a few time frames...
I used to trade on the 5 range, now I've dropped down to the 3 range due to huge swings in price(ES).
Sure, I may have a lot more bars and sometimes spurts of bars but I feel my Targets and SL are much more realistic now.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to adii800 for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Emini and Emicro Index > Emini 4 Tick Scalp still valid?


October 4, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Create an automated bot in 15 minutes w/SharkIndicators

Oct 29
 

Bookmap

Oct TBD
 

Carley Garner

Oct TBD
 

GruttePier

Oct TBD
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts