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Any Jim Dalton's June 2020 Intensive Graduates?


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Any Jim Dalton's June 2020 Intensive Graduates?

  #11 (permalink)
 
Miquel Malaga's Avatar
 Miquel Malaga 
Kraków Poland
 
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Not sure if you are sarcastic or not, but I'll reply anyway.
Of course not. I am not even sure if he is profitable in his way of trading. I know many people who benefited from learning from him.

If after watching his public webinars you are interested in his way of viewing the markets - then I would definately recommend participating in the intensives or purchasing the e-courses. If not, by all means, look for something else. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

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  #12 (permalink)
 
SBtrader82's Avatar
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Miquel Malaga View Post
Not sure if you are sarcastic or not, but I'll reply anyway.
Of course not. I am not even sure if he is profitable in his way of trading. I know many people who benefited from learning from him.

If after watching his public webinars you are interested in his way of viewing the markets - then I would definately recommend participating in the intensives or purchasing the e-courses. If not, by all means, look for something else. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

Hi Miguel, no I am not sarcastic at all. I am not saying that he does not trade I am simply saying that we have no proof that he still trades.

This for me does not mean that his teachings are not valuable.
The best teachers in any field are not necessarily practicing what they teach. I have been a semi professional musician for years and my first teacher was a famous concertist, he was the worst possible teacher. Then my second music professor hadn't been playing for 20 years, but he was the best teacher you could imagine. Many of his students won international competitions.

I bought the old Dvds and also took two of his intensives years ago. His teachings are definitely useful, but in my opinion you need to add many more "details" to become profitable.

Jim can probably trade just on market profile, because he has a lot of experience reading the rhythm of the market. For a beginner this is quite difficult.
Also I think that many of Jim's ideas are not applicable anymore because technology has changed and he is old and doesn't understand technology.
Markets change and you cannot be naive and think that an 80yo man have all the answers.

The main concept still apply but all the rest.... be cautious and do your own research.


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  #13 (permalink)
 
teamtc247's Avatar
 teamtc247 
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Jim teaches you how to think about trading. Not how to trade. There is value in that and there is a difference between thinking and actually trading. So if you can get that bolded first line through the head, there might be hope for you, but again, there might not be. Most of everyone that trades Market Profile or Volume Profile at some point has used Jim's material. His books are outdated. Jim ejected some of Pete’s concepts over the years. He refined it. Anyone that uses the term poor highs and lows or weak highs and lows at some point took a course from Jim or took a course from someone else that took a course from Jim. So if you follow FT71 and are confused by his disorganization in Convergent Trading, with half explained concepts, or cancelled and rescheduled AMA's, you might be best to catch Jim sooner than later, he’s 80 now. Just my two cents.

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  #14 (permalink)
 
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 teamtc247 
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SBtrader82 View Post
Thanks a lot for your reply, can you please post Jim's account statements or any website where we can download any proof of your claim?

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I was a skeptic of the market profile. I think the e-courses are excellent. Since they are more direct and save time, you do not have to listen to all the questions from newbs in a supposedly advanced course. I mean, we are all newbs at some point. It's merely more straightforward and concise. I think the most significant value of the intensive is the homework topic and the replay narrations. Honestly, I think people should start with Jim and then pick up a course elsewhere for the trading execution. His work is the foundation of how one should think about trading, not how to trade. I mean, if it is more important for one to go through the pain of teaching themselves, be my guest. You’re not going to walk out of his course with knowing how to trade, but you’ll have one piece of the market generated puzzle. Now putting it together will take some time. One will for sure have some ah-ha’s for sure. 😊

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  #15 (permalink)
tbk176
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Hi there, I'm just wondering how are you getting on with Market Profile and Jim's education. I've just completed a few of his courses and am converted to this style of trading.
Thanks in advance

kalalex View Post
Hi,

I wonder if there's any other June 2020 intensive participants out there who maybe interested in forming an accountability group to make sure we keep going in the right direction?

If so any idea is welcome in regards to how/where/when it's run.

I'll try to start a journal here from July also.


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  #16 (permalink)
 
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tbk176 View Post
Hi there, I'm just wondering how are you getting on with Market Profile and Jim's education. I've just completed a few of his courses and am converted to this style of trading.
Thanks in advance

if you are "converted to his style", be very very careful. Don't be fooled by an old man: ignoring technology, having no formal education and being stucked in the 50s, doesn't mean you are a serious trader.
If you want to watch people who adore James Dalton, give a look to the YT channel "optic trading", this guy was interviewed by Chat With Traders and he was teaching all the same things that JD did.
He even met JD and was coached personally.... what was the result?
he disappeared!!
He stopped publishing videos, he doesn't even answer to comments to his videos.

He is probably selling hamburger in a McDonald maybe thinking "this is just a poor low" in life.

Take the good of James Dalton courses and forget all the rest. Don't overestimate the old man, he is old... market have changed.

What did he say in the last course? let me guess:
1) serious money does not butcher the market like this....this is just short covering/long liquidation etc..
2) I haven't seen serious money in a while
3) I don't trust this low/high etc...
4) we are still one timeframing higher/lower etc...
5) decide what type of trader you are
6) go for a walk
7) expedential effect (he never manages to say exponential right??)

Take the good and leave all the rest! JD is old.

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  #17 (permalink)
tbk176
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Thanks for your feedback and duly noted. Ultimately as a trader I will find my own style and hence education and time in the trenches will give me experience so I can choose what to hold and what to let go.

SBtrader82 View Post
if you are "converted to his style", be very very careful. Don't be fooled by an old man: ignoring technology, having no formal education and being stucked in the 50s, doesn't mean you are a serious trader.
If you want to watch people who adore James Dalton, give a look to the YT channel "optic trading", this guy was interviewed by Chat With Traders and he was teaching all the same things that JD did.
He even met JD and was coached personally.... what was the result?
he disappeared!!
He stopped publishing videos, he doesn't even answer to comments to his videos.

He is probably selling hamburger in a McDonald maybe thinking "this is just a poor low" in life.

Take the good of James Dalton courses and forget all the rest. Don't overestimate the old man, he is old... market have changed.

What did he say in the last course? let me guess:
1) serious money does not butcher the market like this....this is just short covering/long liquidation etc..
2) I haven't seen serious money in a while
3) I don't trust this low/high etc...
4) we are still one timeframing higher/lower etc...
5) decide what type of trader you are
6) go for a walk
7) expedential effect (he never manages to say exponential right??)

Take the good and leave all the rest! JD is old.


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  #18 (permalink)
king1999
Atlanta, GA
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2012
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SBtrader82 View Post
if you are "converted to his style", be very very careful. Don't be fooled by an old man: ignoring technology, having no formal education and being stucked in the 50s, doesn't mean you are a serious trader.
If you want to watch people who adore James Dalton, give a look to the YT channel "optic trading", this guy was interviewed by Chat With Traders and he was teaching all the same things that JD did.
He even met JD and was coached personally.... what was the result?
he disappeared!!
He stopped publishing videos, he doesn't even answer to comments to his videos.

He is probably selling hamburger in a McDonald maybe thinking "this is just a poor low" in life.

Take the good of James Dalton courses and forget all the rest. Don't overestimate the old man, he is old... market have changed.

What did he say in the last course? let me guess:
1) serious money does not butcher the market like this....this is just short covering/long liquidation etc..
2) I haven't seen serious money in a while
3) I don't trust this low/high etc...
4) we are still one timeframing higher/lower etc...
5) decide what type of trader you are
6) go for a walk
7) expedential effect (he never manages to say exponential right??)

Take the good and leave all the rest! JD is old.

I found this comment just nonsensical.
1. The “optic trading” disappearing from YouTube means nothing. He may have lost interest in posting or may have involved in a car accident. Your speculation about his working at a fast food restaurant reflected more of your self image than anything else I suspect.
2. JD is old and doesn’t understand technology, thus he is kind of obsolete. Well Wyckoff’s stuff was from a hundred years ago, but still applicable to today’s market. We can only evaluate a methodology based on its own merits and how it reflects the market realities, not something as irrelevant as aging.
There is no holy grail in the market. Market profile provides a framework of understanding the market structure based on auction theory. It is a foundation you can build your own setups and trading plan.

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  #19 (permalink)
 
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king1999 View Post
I found this comment just nonsensical.
1. The “optic trading” disappearing from YouTube means nothing. He may have lost interest in posting or may have involved in a car accident. Your speculation about his working at a fast food restaurant reflected more of your self image than anything else I suspect.
2. JD is old and doesn’t understand technology, thus he is kind of obsolete. Well Wyckoff’s stuff was from a hundred years ago, but still applicable to today’s market. We can only evaluate a methodology based on its own merits and how it reflects the market realities, not something as irrelevant as aging.
There is no holy grail in the market. Market profile provides a framework of understanding the market structure based on auction theory. It is a foundation you can build your own setups and trading plan.

Hi, I understand your point.... let me give you some other perspectives:

1) if Optic trading was interviewed by Chat with traders, and got huge visibility. He was even selling courses... if he was still making money trading, he would be capitalizing on his early sucess and still post videos and sell courses. Anyway I don't know maybe you are right, maybe he went to pursue other hobbies.

2) About "market profile providing a framework to understand market".... ok, also Aether provided a framework to understand natural phenomena like gravity and light. Very brillian scientists believed in Aether but there is a problem: aether does not exist. They worked hard to prove its existence, then somebody managed to prove it wrong so nobody talks about aether anymore.
My point is not about market profile being useful or not, to me it is actually very useful. I use it everyday.
My point is that James Dalton approach lacks scientific rigor. He has his own theory about strong hands never buying at exact prices etc... poor lows, poor highs, weak lows, week highs, he always asks "who do you think knows this stuff", let me answer: Everyone!! this stuff is so mainstream now that many platform (Sierra for instance) plots the poor highs automaticaly.
Yet I am not saying that this stuff doesn't work.

My point is that you MUST backtest stuff and you MUST prove it scientifically.
The scientific approach is this: you make two hypotesis about something and then you do the Hypothesis testing by deriving some stats.


Again, let me repet myself I am not saying that James Dalton material is useless, but to me unless you prove it in some way you cannot rely on it.

Actually this would be a great exercise to do: testing all this stuff.
Right now I don't have the time to do it, but I will certainly do it in the future.

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  #20 (permalink)
king1999
Atlanta, GA
 
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SBtrader82 View Post
Hi, I understand your point.... let me give you some other perspectives:

1) if Optic trading was interviewed by Chat with traders, and got huge visibility. He was even selling courses... if he was still making money trading, he would be capitalizing on his early sucess and still post videos and sell courses. Anyway I don't know maybe you are right, maybe he went to pursue other hobbies.

2) About "market profile providing a framework to understand market".... ok, also Aether provided a framework to understand natural phenomena like gravity and light. Very brillian scientists believed in Aether but there is a problem: aether does not exist. They worked hard to prove its existence, then somebody managed to prove it wrong so nobody talks about aether anymore.
My point is not about market profile being useful or not, to me it is actually very useful. I use it everyday.
My point is that James Dalton approach lacks scientific rigor. He has his own theory about strong hands never buying at exact prices etc... poor lows, poor highs, weak lows, week highs, he always asks "who do you think knows this stuff", let me answer: Everyone!! this stuff is so mainstream now that many platform (Sierra for instance) plots the poor highs automaticaly.
Yet I am not saying that this stuff doesn't work.

My point is that you MUST backtest stuff and you MUST prove it scientifically.
The scientific approach is this: you make two hypotesis about something and then you do the Hypothesis testing by deriving some stats.


Again, let me repet myself I am not saying that James Dalton material is useless, but to me unless you prove it in some way you cannot rely on it.

Actually this would be a great exercise to do: testing all this stuff.
Right now I don't have the time to do it, but I will certainly do it in the future.

Sorry to be blunt, but why do you still "use it everyday" if you have no confidence that the market profile works? This kind of conflict can cause all kinds of psychological problems in trading (as I have been there). Yes, I agree that backtest is needed to build conviction. Jim's materials are hard to be backtested through programing, as a lot of concepts are observational and hard to formulate, such as tempo, poor this week that, monitoring for continuation etc. Manual backtests are needed which would be very laborious. I have only done some limited historical walkthroughs as I only use MP to assist in determine price levels for my price action trading based on Al Brooks' materials. Jim Dalton himself only uses MP, but in an interview, he stated that MP can be used along with other technical analysis to increase your odds. One example is that he suggested using MP when price hitting Bolinger band to determine if it will break or reverse.

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