Are sharks watching on the other side? - futures io
futures io futures trading



Are sharks watching on the other side?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated by planetkill
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one lamass with 15 posts (9 thanks)
    2. looks_two josh with 8 posts (84 thanks)
    3. looks_3 planetkill with 8 posts (11 thanks)
    4. looks_4 danh18 with 7 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Blash with 14.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two bobwest with 13.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 josh with 10.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 matthew28 with 6.0 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 3,312 views
    2. thumb_up 226 thanks given
    3. group 234 followers
    1. forum 72 replies
    2. attach_file 5 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Are sharks watching on the other side?

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
San Francisco,CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Think or Sweam
Trading: ES
 
lamass's Avatar
 
Posts: 20 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 35 given, 13 received

Markets are changing constantly. That's given.
But as of late, I noticed catastrophic turn of events. Every, literary every trade i took (out of 12), during 2 days- turned against me.
That has not happened to me for loooong time. I even made real money 4 haphazard illogical trades: still the same- against me. As if someone or Algos are watching and saying: going 4 points here will make him capitulate or give him a margin call.
Yes, i trade with just $400 account: ES and RTY. But then i traded also ESM and M2K and still the same.
I heard that Brokers disclose the accounts to whomever pays for that information daily or can trade against their own clients- should they choose.
However for dozens times over and over i had been able to bring a $400 into $1000-$2000 and then withdraw. Because I had had the experience that no matter how fat account i have- they can manage to empty it- so i started withdrawing each $500-700 i make. So i started making money.
But after a month or so they(whomever they are) as if discovering someone is draining their accounts- changed tactics and voila: Each move i make is a Looser. I can not go even 1 pnt in my direction. If I show you the charts you'll be also amazed.
Is it possible? I know i saw 700 contracts on the RTY or 13500 on the ES but still: how is it possible that I hit each worst spot each time 12 times in a day in a raw? Is the entire Market watching me AGAINST ME? [HELP!!!]
I changed even tactics. Changed expectations. Made live tests. Same result.


Or, if I am such master for spotting the worst while thinking its the best, Can somebody hire me and do the Opposite of me? Then lets split the enormous gains.

Flabbergasted!

Does somebody have the experience that you are watched?
[ And no, I have no paranoia, schizo or bipolar... ]

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to lamass for this post:

 
 
(login for full post details)
  #2 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 48,916 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 31,588 given, 94,561 received

Are you trading real futures or CFD?


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Europe
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeNavigator, BookMap
Trading: ES, CL, 6E, 6B
 
Posts: 357 since Jan 2017
Thanks: 0 given, 292 received


big banks, institutions and hedgefunds are all watching your ultra, micro, baby account and trade against you

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to tr8er for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
New York City + NY/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 124 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 73 received

You can use simulated stop loss and market if touch profit targets so that the broker and exchange do not see your resting orders. With a simulated stop loss, the order only lives on your local chart, and is sent as a market order when the price condition is met. Hedge funds won't know where your stops are so you shouldn't feel that they are manipulating the price just to take your money
lamass View Post
Markets are changing constantly. That's given.
But as of late, I noticed catastrophic turn of events. Every, literary every trade i took (out of 12), during 2 days- turned against me.
That has not happened to me for loooong time. I even made real money 4 haphazard illogical trades: still the same- against me. As if someone or Algos are watching and saying: going 4 points here will make him capitulate or give him a margin call.
Yes, i trade with just $400 account: ES and RTY. But then i traded also ESM and M2K and still the same.
I heard that Brokers disclose the accounts to whomever pays for that information daily or can trade against their own clients- should they choose.
However for dozens times over and over i had been able to bring a $400 into $1000-$2000 and then withdraw. Because I had had the experience that no matter how fat account i have- they can manage to empty it- so i started withdrawing each $500-700 i make. So i started making money.
But after a month or so they(whomever they are) as if discovering someone is draining their accounts- changed tactics and voila: Each move i make is a Looser. I can not go even 1 pnt in my direction. If I show you the charts you'll be also amazed.
Is it possible? I know i saw 700 contracts on the RTY or 13500 on the ES but still: how is it possible that I hit each worst spot each time 12 times in a day in a raw? Is the entire Market watching me AGAINST ME? [HELP!!!]
I changed even tactics. Changed expectations. Made live tests. Same result.


Or, if I am such master for spotting the worst while thinking its the best, Can somebody hire me and do the Opposite of me? Then lets split the enormous gains.

Flabbergasted!

Does somebody have the experience that you are watched?
[ And no, I have no paranoia, schizo or bipolar... ]

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to planetkill for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
Hartford, CT. USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP/CQG, Kinetick
Trading: RTY
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Posts: 686 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 746 given, 774 received

Algo Sharks are always watching. You by yourself are not big enough to be noticed. If a hundred other traders are making the same trade as you, now you are in trouble. You know the sharks are there. Take the trade that they are taking. Otherwise, you are just bait.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to RJay for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
New York City + NY/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini ES
 
Posts: 124 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 18 given, 73 received

I agree with take the trades the sharks take!

Become a trap trader!
If you feel like you're always being stopped out just before a large swing into the other direction, then stop jumping in too soon. Instead spot your entry as you normally do, but do not enter! Instead now wait for the sharks to trap people like you before, then afterwards watch the price reverse and get in at this point

Ez pz


RJay View Post
Algo Sharks are always watching. You by yourself are not big enough to be noticed. If a hundred other traders are making the same trade as you, now you are in trouble. You know the sharks are there. Take the trade that they are taking. Otherwise, you are just bait.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to planetkill for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
SpeculatorSeth
Salt Lake City, Utah
 
Platform: Jigsaw, NinjaTrader8
 
Posts: 525 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 18 given, 505 received

There is a constant evolving metagame being played with technicals. Robots backtest to see what strategies are working recently, and attempt to switch strategies based on what is working. Other robots attempt to determine what will be popular next so they can counter the meta.

So when you have something that works, it's usually a matter of time before the market figures it out. The nature of edge is such that they're always working to arbitrage any market inefficiencies. There's lots of ways that the market adjusts for this. For instance, trades with high probability usually move more when they fail. But a lot of the strategies that tape readers find balance out by having bad draw-downs. So the strategy will work great for 3 months, and then all the sudden you lose every time.

Which is why I just don't think it works long term to trade on pure technicals. You should understand the environment you are in, and why it leads to that particular setup working well. Lately we've had an environment where almost everything works. So I think you know where that goes...

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to TWDsje for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Georgia, US
 
Experience: None
Platform: SC
Broker: AMP+CQG
Trading: ES, HSI, Nikkei
 
josh's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,451 since Jan 2011
Thanks: 6,025 given, 14,321 received

Open two accounts. Take offsetting positions in each of them. Observe that one will be in profit, one will be in loss. Hopefully this cures you from the paranoia that "they" care about you. Yes, liquidity runs are made, and yes, it's to trap traders and find liquidity. But it's not for you -- just for you and others who thought like you did at the time.

But let's back up. The market's job is to facilitate trade. Orders to sell and buy are placed. This moves the market. Algos, who are the dominant force in the market now, do make 'predatory' moves in order to seek liquidity and profit; but, largely, they are merely there to fill orders in response to market conditions. For example, a large fund has an automated system that will sell a holding if the stock drops below its 200D MA. The algo may be a simple VWAP algo ... it may be something like "sell to fill above VWAP; if the market gets below the VWAP by X%, sell at the market (to fill the order even at unfavorable prices)" ... it has a job to do and will do whatever it's programmed to do, to fill the order. That's it. This particular algo is not out to get you.

As a practical rule of thumb (1) place your order to buy or sell, and (2) note where your stop would be. Now (3) cancel your order, and (4) place your order where your stop was going to be as observed in #2.

Reply With Quote
The following 18 users say Thank You to josh for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
Detroit MI/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Multicharts, Custom own
Trading: All Futures
 
Posts: 58 since Sep 2017
Thanks: 28 given, 168 received

The past week the markets have been stuck churning sideways. Do your techniques account for prolonged sideways action? Important to trade current market conditions with the correct type of strategy.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to TraderDoc007 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,733 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 44,722 given, 19,367 received



lamass View Post
Does somebody have the experience that you are watched?

Other people have commented, often with better responses than mine will be. But my only contribution is that your account is just not that important for any of the big players to want to take your money. There just isn't enough money there. Nor for your broker to have any incentive to sell the information about what you are doing. I'm not trying to run you down, because my account is not important enough either.

Unless, as @Big Mike asked, you are not trading in actual futures but in CFD's, then the market just doesn't work the way you suppose. I'm not saying this because I am too rosy-eyed about the market (which is, as we should all know, totally cutthroat), but because you, and I, are not a big prize. I don't think that "they" are after the big accounts either, but why would they want yours? This is a realistic question.

I and every other trader has had a similar type of experience that you describe. One possibility is that you (and I) are in fact the target of evil doing, as you said. Another is that we make bad trades sometimes, even if they are just like the other, successful ones. I have certainly thought about the "do the opposite of what I'm doing" idea, but when I thought about how to implement that I broke down and laughed. What solves the problem is to realize whatever you are doing that puts you in the wrong position, and act differently. If you put a buy or sell order at the same spot that most other traders do, then your order will be matched, of course, but who will then drive price up/down in your direction so you will profit? If you run with the crowd, you will not beat it.

I don't have concrete advice, and perhaps (probably?) you will ignore what I have said. But really, forget the idea that "they" are out for you, and find out what works for you as a trader. Since you have had periods when you have done well, the best thing is to look at what changed in the market that made your trade choices not succeed. Something did. Find that and your issue with "them" will go away, because "they" don't care about you anyway, and don't know you are there, just as they don't know I am there either.

If you are willing to be responsible for your trading, you can find out why it sometimes works and sometimes does not -- a phenomenon we all experience. Then you can change the cycle, which I hope you do.

I do want you to succeed. I hope you will take what I have said seriously and see if you can make some changes and move past these issues.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 18 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Emini and Emicro Index > Are sharks watching on the other side?


July 10, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Every journal equals ten meals for the hungry

Now
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts