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Are sharks watching on the other side?


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Are sharks watching on the other side?

  #31 (permalink)
bob666s
Auckland + auckland/new zealand
 
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Big Mike View Post
Are you trading real futures or CFD?


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Did lamass ever answer this question? if these're bucketshop CFDs, then we all know why he got picked off...

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  #32 (permalink)
 
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 xplorer 
London UK
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TWDsje View Post
Well I guess the point here is how would you know the difference? Market participants are constantly seeking inefficiencies in the market to arbitrage out of the market. How could you know if it's just a meta shift or if someone was specifically watching and trading against you? The end market behavior would be the same. What worked before would suddenly not work very well.

We only know that it's being caused by meta shifts because we know how the algorithms work, and we know that technical analysis is generally self defeating reducing the expectancy of edges over time as more participants discover them.

I agree with you. Happy that this is discussed also, as long as the topic does not creep towards proving how good one's edge is.

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  #33 (permalink)
Kuuluud
Revali, EE
 
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Blash View Post
Honestly, you are in a business you know very little/nothing about. Hence it's a complete mystery.

You are not going to understand this so I'm going to help you with some analogies.

You can make great dogs and burgers on the backyard grill. You open a sandwich shop and lose money.

You hand wash and wax your vehicle twice a week and detail it twice a month. Cleanest, most gorgeous show ready car around. You open a car wash and lose money.

You shoot hoops in your driveway making 20 of 20. You play one-on-one with LeBron ...enough said.

Trading is about probability. Markets are anticipatory in nature. Risk is Absolute King. Traders know this ....real traders.

I completely agree. Most traders overestimate their skill.

Easy example to understand that most people can relate to is playing competitive computer games. However good or knowledgeable you are about the game, play one game against a professional player and he will completely dominate the game. Their understating of the meta game completely differs. Professionals pay attention on things you might not even consider.

Every day we trading against people who understand risk better, implement better models, have deeper pockets, better infrastructure, better access to quality data.

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  #34 (permalink)
 
lamass's Avatar
 lamass 
San Francisco,CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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133usd View Post
Yeah if you buy the exact top as shown in the chart you posted OP, then your loss is 100% your fault as you held the drawdown to the max. Nobody is looking for your 1 contract trade to snipe off. There are some sniper/sniffer algos that will target large amounts of liquidity once they become available and sitting on the limit order book. That type of algo only trades when visible liquidity is available.

If you have a losing streak, it means you're getting cold and need to be patient on your entries. A lot of other people have already said to simply wait for where you'd place your stop and then enter there. I will also add, trade small in the micros and trade at where your stop would have been, and be able to scale in a few more contracts, as that will create some "wiggle" room. It's really easy to say "let the market come to you" but try to practice it as much as possible.

We feel like someone is "watching" because we are out of sync with the market. Anytime I feel like this, I know to slow down or stop trading and look at my levels from another angle.

Don't trade Mini size on a small account, you'll shoot yourself in the foot doing that.

Thanks fort the reasonable advise! In retrospect, I see where i was irrational. Yet, remains that all trades and positions are watched by big houses. If i can see depth of Level I & II, they can see probably even how much $$ I have, how strong am I to sustain a move against me, or a number of traders. And certainly, wild M, as we had seen lately, has no issue by swinging 10-15-20 pts (ES) to run and destroy those accounts. Also, it remains, that if one is very very Correct- then the M will reward him. I say, very, very because 1 in that case (with small account) needs to be right 2 or 3 layers. The algos, in such wild M conditions, would need to already clean up and destroy quite a bit accounts, satisfy their "appetite" (make gains), and already do that probably 2-3 times- then: 1 can get on with the Correct Flow. My limitations lately, has been that I started to watch the M from a position of 'regaining back my loss'- so I lost the Flow, Unburdened Intuition and Patience. Plus, I violated some of my own rules: and that deserves Punishment!
As I sober out, I still think we are watched and manipulated, that there are hooks, flushes, clean ups, shakes, stop-runs, etc... but 1 can still trade well and cautiously in those conditions. Even profitably. Its a State Of Mind that i slipped from recently. But the conversations had been critically sobering to me as to what is and should be my Job on the M. Thanks to all!

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  #35 (permalink)
 
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 josh 
Georgia, US
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lamass View Post
Yet, remains that all trades and positions are watched by big houses. If i can see depth of Level I & II, they can see probably even how much $$ I have, how strong am I to sustain a move against me, or a number of traders.

This is just not true, and I'm stating this to prevent the spread of more misinformation. No one can see your account size, and they have no idea where your stop is (you, individually). I can guess logically where stops are, because I understand the psychology of the collective. And more sophisticated algos certainly can make very very good guesses. But I have ZERO way to know where your stop is, that you have one, what your position is, or that you even exist.


lamass View Post
As I sober out, I still think we are watched and manipulated, that there are hooks, flushes, clean ups, shakes, stop-runs, etc... but 1 can still trade well and cautiously in those conditions. Even profitably.

This is a positive attitude to have. When you begin to shift the mindset from "they are out to get me" to "they are out to get some people--now how can I get a piece of the action," then you are releasing the ego. This is a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality, and it's necessary for survival. There is no reward, or morality, in siding with the weak who will lose money, because you will have the same fate. In a battle for survival, do you side with the weak who are about to get slaughtered for some self-righteous feeling of virtue, or will you side with the winners, and live to fight another day? In real life we would stand up to forces larger than us if family, spirituality, or some other higher purpose were at stake. This is not the case here. It's trading. It's money. Take the money from the weak, or be one of the weak, it's our choice. (It sounds so seriously savage and I don't mean it to, but it's really just reality)

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  #36 (permalink)
 
lamass's Avatar
 lamass 
San Francisco,CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES
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tr8er View Post
big banks, institutions and hedgefunds are all watching your ultra, micro, baby account and trade against you

Finally a reasonable person here- although he thinks he is facetious. Yes, I was feeling they were after my $600. And after many thousands of $600-ts accounts. And they do it just as an aperitif. Because they can. If I had millions and B$s, I would do the same. Clean up the Plankton- then head for the real meal.

Of course, fractally speaking, so many TimeFrame participators makes the game confusing even more. One can make Money countertrend and loose while "being Right" if the account size get critical or terminate by fear. This is a vast ocean filled with wild Beasts. Derby Demolition. Eat or get itten. I also want to take your money- is the name of the game. So I understand that there is no sympathy here.
I was so stupidly naive at a point that i could not get it, why did the M needs to go 10 pnts down, to just head another 50 up. Or the opposite. But, Now I Know: they are after my little $. There is no little or big $. Lots of retail little $ is a lot of $- daily. That's why it has to be like that. Ridden with traps and dangers.
I'll just need to reevaluate my way of involvement and thinking here. I had many times good profitable runs- then they stop working. And i haven't learned well how to take and deal with losses- in a constructive sustaining manner. Adapting to different conditions is the hardest for me. Probably for most. Peace!

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  #37 (permalink)
 
lamass's Avatar
 lamass 
San Francisco,CA
 
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Trading: ES
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josh View Post
This is just not true, and I'm stating this to prevent the spread of more misinformation. No one can see your account size, and they have no idea where your stop is (you, individually). I can guess logically where stops are, because I understand the psychology of the collective. And more sophisticated algos certainly can make very very good guesses. But I have ZERO way to know where your stop is, that you have one, what your position is, or that you even exist.



This is a positive attitude to have. When you begin to shift the mindset from "they are out to get me" to "they are out to get some people--now how can I get a piece of the action," then you are releasing the ego. This is a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality, and it's necessary for survival. There is no reward, or morality, in siding with the weak who will lose money, because you will have the same fate. In a battle for survival, do you side with the weak who are about to get slaughtered for some self-righteous feeling of virtue, or will you side with the winners, and live to fight another day? In real life we would stand up to forces larger than us if family, spirituality, or some other higher purpose were at stake. This is not the case here. It's trading. It's money. Take the money from the weak, or be one of the weak, it's our choice. (It sounds so seriously savage and I don't mean it to, but it's really just reality)

UR Absolutely Correct!
Thanks!
Peace!

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  #38 (permalink)
 
lamass's Avatar
 lamass 
San Francisco,CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Think or Sweam
Trading: ES
Posts: 20 since Nov 2011
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bob666s View Post
Did lamass ever answer this question? if these're bucketshop CFDs, then we all know why he got picked off...

I trade RTY and ES mini and micro contracts on CME.
Could you please explain how CFD’s are related to those futures to even ask that?

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  #39 (permalink)
bob666s
Auckland + auckland/new zealand
 
Posts: 65 since Jun 2016
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lamass View Post
I trade RTY and ES mini and micro contracts on CME.
Could you please explain how CFD’s are related to those futures to even ask that?

Like futures, CFDs are derivatives of the underlying products, including indices, the only difference being that CFDs are offered by OTC market makers, i.e. bucket shops who take the other side of your trade mostly betting on their "clients" being losers in the long run.

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  #40 (permalink)
toshi
Chiba city, Japan
 
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Blash View Post
Honestly, you are in a business you know very little/nothing about. Hence it's a complete mystery.

You are not going to understand this so I'm going to help you with some analogies.

You can make great dogs and burgers on the backyard grill. You open a sandwich shop and lose money.

You hand wash and wax your vehicle twice a week and detail it twice a month. Cleanest, most gorgeous show ready car around. You open a car wash and lose money.

You shoot hoops in your driveway making 20 of 20. You play one-on-one with LeBron ...enough said.

Trading is about probability. Markets are anticipatory in nature. Risk is Absolute King. Traders know this ....real traders.

You don't even think about Risk. You think about profit. Your brain is infatuated by how much you can make...money money money.

Sorry if I'm rough on you but it is for your own good. I should be in bed right now.

Plan out what you are going to Risk each and every trading day, each trade.

Large account size is a monster advantage. (Not bragging, illustrating, educating) I could lose $400 everyday for over a year and still be in business. This gig is Dog-Eat-Dog my friend. I would never jump in the octagon with Georges St-Pierre. But you do. And wonder why you got beat.

I can say with total confidence, 100%, I stop trading after three trades that don't work. Never in my wildest dreams would I let that number become, 12 in 2 days, as you said.

This business is about being in control of your person. Using emotions as data. Knowing, Trusting oneself.

Nobody gives a flying F_ _ _ about your tiny trades or your orders. Focus on Risk and your high probability Edge learn about probabilities in general... but most of all Focus on yourself. Stop complaining.

Ron

Excellent reply that summarizes Trade understanding. Thanks for it.

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