your getting bent over the barrel with those fees I would switch to ninja trader even a free membership would be cheaper then that

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf

and check the elite section to see if there are any discounts for switching to ninja

-P

I understand what you are saying @SunTrader, but I think I have to politely disagree with your comment about the number of contracts not being important.

I think it is important, and managing multiple contracts is a completely different skill-set than managing 1 contract. Knowing when to lean into a setup with more contracts is one skill, knowing how to maximize your risk/reward with multiple contracts is a whole other skill. How many should you hold for 1R, how many runners, should you scalp the majority of your position? Should you swing the majority of your position? By what logic do you come to this conclusion?

This is what I was meaning to get across by my original post, and I think I assumed that risk-management at the account-level was already taken care of, but as others have pointed out, maybe I shouldn't assume that, this is a good point.

Cheers!

Think you are missing the main point that so many have mentioned.

The number of contracts (standard, mini, micro whatever) is not what is important. The percentage of your trading capital exposed per trade, and in total if other markets are traded simultaneously, is what matters most.

I agree with the range of 1-2% limit. Which would mean a 10k account allows for $100-$200 of leeway. Trading ES doesn't leave much room for slippage/move against you before needing to exit regardless of trading 1 or 2 and forget 3 or more contracts. Though that same amount is plenty for micros. Seems a no-brainer which to go with and stay with until trading capital is much higher no matter how many of this or that.

Snax, I think you are confusing things a little - What SunTrader is sayin is one should never risk more than 1-2 % of the trading capital - I pesonally would say max 1% - Knowing you entry price, your stop loss and you trading capital you can calculate number of contracts. If this turn out to less than 1 contract skip the trade.

What you are talking about is when to close one or more of the contracts and let the other ones run to some higher profit level, but this is assuming that you make a profit - if the trade turns against you this aspect never come into play. For any trader to have a chance to be a trader in the long run your maximum loss per trader should be respected and not bended to have some ways of dealing with wish full thinking profit.

Having said above Micros ( provided they have the liqidity - which MES has) is more flexiable in this respect, and you can optimize better.

TraderMich

agreed, the 1-2% trading capital is what I was referring to as risk-management at the account-level, and I should have made a better effort to clarify this. If you are considering trading the /ES then I assumed that a reasonable protective-stop is within 1-2% for some number of contracts, (again, i shouldn't have assumed) and if you translate to multiple /MES contracts there is a lot of space to scale up due to the 1/10 size. You can always scale down to 1 contract in order to reach a far-away protective-stop in order to preserve the amount of risk for a trade you want to take.

Agree that you should skip the trade if the risk is too great, and again, I didn't mean to make an argument about that, I only wanted to point out that managing multiple contracts is a whole new problem to solve once you've traded 1 contract at a time in the past.

Cheers!

I finally become profitable when I started to trade more contracts.

It is almost impossible to pinpoint consistently entries and exits.

When I gave up to achieve this and started top scale in and out of positions, things finally changed

The only effective way to learn trading of futures is to be able to trade a lot size that you can split to 3. Hence, before you even consider moving to full ES contract you will need to master that skill. Your goal should be to learn how to:

1. Identify the entry.
2. Define risk.
3. Take profit on the 1/3 of the position and move the stop to breakeven.
4. Let the trade mature to your 2nd target (take 2/3 off at that point) or let the trade take you out at b/e if market goes against you.
5. Once the 2/3 is taken off at your 2nd target allow your last remaining 1/3 run to the best possible profit.

Learning this skill is essential because it allows you to pay for the trade (remove the 1/3 and get a risk-free trade) and practice the execution of your skill by managing the remaining targets.

Morning everyone.

Always rememebr that everyone has to develop their own way of doing this stuff. Just like I never listen to anyone telling me what I should buy/sell, I developed my own style over many, many years. My first trade was a 14. I researched, I did homework and I fought to make the trade even though parents, their broker, etc said I was crazy. The stock gained over 600% over the next few years and I was put in charge of my parents investing. The only thing that matters to me is that you are making money and are comfortable doing what you are doing. Yes, I will go up to 6% of buying power in undefined risk trades. That doesn't mean you should. Maybe 2% is better for you. Maybe you are only comfortable with defined risk trades. Only you know that. And what we all do should only say that there is more than one way to skin the cat.

Best wishes,

Tim

I copied your suggestion to my trading journal. This is what I used to do back when I started out on sim with ES. I felt like a Rockstar. Then when I put real money in, I saw how very differently I reacted to losses. It has been a winding road to get to the place where I can see me doing this in the near future with micros. For now I am saving to increase my funded account and continue practicing with one lots on my entries. Likely I will move up to two lots initially so I can condition myself to not take the bigger hits too personally. But your suggestion is where I would like to see myself eventually progress. Then after gaining confidence with that, to eventually go with 6 lots broken into thirds.