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it depends on your trading style. If it is chart-based the moves look pretty much the same.
If you trade off the DOM profitable the ES you probalby still will lose money as soon as you switch to the NQ.
Sure, orderflow moves price but orderflow materializes differentely in all the instruments.
If you think of volatility as "less competition" then one could argument that there is more unefficiency = opportunity.
In this sense, if you have the right timing you could get out more of the NQ than the ES.
(At least if you do not have the need to trade 100´s of contracts)
Disadvantage is that the opportunity window closes very fast.
While the ES is ticking up down up down up down, you picking in your nose and thinking about closing the trade or not,
the NQ could already have taken half of your unrealized profits.
I have coded my entries into an algo. I find the NQ spreads and slip can kill an otherwise great backtested strategy. The same strat on ES has almost no slip but the nature of the ES doesn’t set up great for its use. YM has much better spreads and enough liquidity to get a few contracts into and out of the market without slipping my way into the gutter! Just my two cents.
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60
I really prefer NQ. It takes a lot of getting used to. It travels more price distance intraday, and faster which means more opportunity if you are a scalper or intraday trader. Atr dosent really tell you total distance traveled, say distance between zig zag points or oscillations. When I first came to NQ it, it looked wild and chaotic compared to many instruments. Over time and close observation and many trades on a high quality sim like Ninjatraders I was able to find techniques that worked and then optimized the hades out of them over time before I ever went live..to the point where it was just automatic or intuitive, all on a high quality dom. I prefer the volatility and you can find things that correlate and sequeneces that that lead it. Being a composite the way to think about it is nq is the result or a critical mass of components doing something like reversing. When a critical mass of heavily weighted components turn often point of control for that wave or leg will snap to price as the exiting into the move creates the highest traded level..thats a heads up. Then which side of the poc defends, cap or coil. Thats usually co ordinated with a tickq reversal..say upticking stocks dominating in an up trend to downticking stocks dominating, and maybe even a fang or faangm move. Same is true for any index, indices, etf etc. Big difference between individual stocks and composites. There is also something called a hi low ticker which stacks the instruments hitting new intraday highs and lows..as one side of that starts to dominate it pulls..say along w tickq then you have say two votes for a direction and nq will tend to follow as the sequences play out. NQ and futs used to lead now they are closer to their underlying instruments than in the past., the only thing leading them is the internals and the shifting from say intraday highs to lows and a big tick move..initial move is exiters/profit takers/coverers etc but if it sustains just a hair then say ..fang may turn then you have a chance of nq or qqq or whatever turning as well. Any composite is a result...last response in line..and of course you can trade those techically but it helps to be just in front of what they do. ES is ok, its much slower, it just depends. Would suggest these days starting with the mini's, it's cheaper even though the commission ratio is a bit higher, you can loosen up a bit and let them run further. Really boils down to your style and personality and which one you prefer. If you sim the heck out of both of them and look closely at your stat's you migh be able to determine which is best for you theoretically. You don't want to be on the wrong side of a big quick futures move especially nq. You really have to be on your toes. Personally I couldnt trade nq without a very fast, stable platform and very good dom and chart trader, as well as looking at things that make it up and lead it like tickq, hi/low tickers, faang..maybe a leading index, qqq etc. Helps to know "time zone tendencies, wave and pattern "force" and couple it with if x occurs do x1 if y occurs do y1, imagine different scenarios and take the one that confirms...helps to know what its going to tend to do in real time but also what the leading factors are doing. As they say..some things work some of the time... if its working jump on it..like a black jackplayer with a favorable deck card count.
I believe you're the first NQ trader I've seen who really stresses internals. Makes sense, though.
When I first came to NQ it, it looked wild and chaotic compared to many instruments.
That's kind of my perspective. I know ES. I have followed it for years. I know how it generally moves, what's normal and what not.
Where ES may respect a level more accurately, NQ seems to often overshoot or undershoot levels, i.e., less precision. Reminding me a bit of how I experienced CL in the past when I dabbled in that market.
I'm paying more attention to NQ and want to increase my understanding of it, but it's definitely an instrument which can easily defeat you if you don't know what you're doing.
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60
Helps to also have some mental "templates" to "view" through especially with nq. Something like.."price tends to move from confluence to confluence in waves and patterns in certain time zones thru the day. What confluences?..well vwap, and 50% or ranges, both the days and the big leg or wave you are in at any moment. Point of control being another and often moves to the other two. Also the opening 1 min range etc. Why does price move to those because traders are there, thus orders. They trade away from them, to them and around them..in front of them..more traders = more orders means more "gravity" or "pull". This means more targets, entries, exits, buys, sells etc at and around the confluences. Those rule over ma's. If you think about there is always an ma in some time frame on some price, but they are "incidental" oompared to those mentioned above. If a "popular" ma is alligned or confluencing it will have more "gravity" ..because more traders are there. NQ is fast and initially looks random and wlld but really its not. Its the best mover with more opportunity but can be very volatile off a catalyst. Once again, takes al lot of observation and it really has to fit with your personality/abiltiy/inclinations/platform. Some traders will watch say Nq, ES, YM and maybe a few others and they will take the one that is behaving best..steepest trend, whatever. I prefer to just focus on nq and maybe es. Whatever it is. first one has to see it, something...then be able to trade it. Two distinct skill sets. Once again some things work some of the time and you can have an edge but there still will be a randomness to the distribution of the winners within your edge. One can know everything there is to know about say nq and still not be able to trade it. Which one's best? NQ, ES etc....the one you are able to see and trade best.
Hi @chartmojo2, this is not a criticism, just a comment, but do you realize how difficult it is to read huge blocks of text like these? I'm sure that what you have to say is worthwhile, but I'm not going to slog through it.
If you break up these solid block paragraphs into several distinct ones, just hitting the Enter key a couple of times after completing a major thought, it will be much more readable, and will lay your thoughts out better, too.
I apologize if this comes across as critical or negative, which is not my intention. But on the internet, what's called a "wall of text" is generally not going to be read. A little attention to the formatting will work much better.
Just a suggestion.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60
Thx will keep that in mind. That is the short version. Thanks Bob I appreciate the advice/tip. Tip's get you places. Also like the DQ quote! As Daddy used to say..."they say you only go around once son, but I say if you go really fast you might just get around twice".
. But the background is interesting, if you're into this sort of thing.
