Lost & losing hope - futures io
futures io



Lost & losing hope


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one xevanchan with 19 posts (54 thanks)
    2. looks_two bobwest with 11 posts (72 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kazz with 9 posts (6 thanks)
    4. looks_4 MiniP with 8 posts (44 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one JonnyBoy with 10.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two bobwest with 6.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 MiniP with 5.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 xevanchan with 2.8 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 33,117 views
    2. thumb_up 669 thanks given
    3. group 102 followers
    1. forum 207 posts
    2. attach_file 32 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Lost & losing hope

(login for full post details)
  #201 (permalink)
 jamrock 
tampa florida
 
 
Posts: 63 since Sep 2020

if you find yourself posting here in this thread due to your trading then the best advice i can give is to just stop trading and thinking about trading for a few months and come back fresh with new ideas but please just stop trading

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #202 (permalink)
Piper792
LA California
 
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2019
Thanks: 2 given, 1 received

Agree might be time to take a step back and re-evaluate some things. Take a Break> PaperTrade> then maybe a Prop account like TopStep or one of the other ones out there to try to hone some discipline.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #203 (permalink)
 ch123456 
Houston+Texas/United States
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader, Motivewave
Broker: NinjaTrader, Oanda, TD Ameritrade
Trading: CL GC
 
ch123456's Avatar
 
Posts: 92 since Nov 2015
Thanks: 87 given, 98 received


bobwest View Post
This is a good post, but I'm afraid I didn't get my point across too well. Probably because I'm so long-winded and try to get too detailed instead of just addressing a point.



So let me say it in a briefer way:



At the end of the day (or when I close a trade, whichever comes first), my account receives money if I have a profit, and it loses money if I have a loss. These are real funds. I could actually take out the profit, so long as I left enough for the margin requirement. This happens to everyone else, hedger, institution, HFT, retail, no difference.



The money I get is real funds and is taken out of accounts that have a loss for the day. Or, if I have the loss, the money that is taken from me goes into accounts that have a profit. All the debits equal all the credits, exchange-wide. The money is just being moved around the table.



This is zero-sum.



It's not like some other markets, such as the stock market, where value can increase or decrease with the value of the company.



Sure, the total amount that is on the table can and will change as more is brought in from the outside, or more is taken out, and this will fluctuate. But once funds are on the table, they are just moved around.



Remember, we are not actually trading real oil, nor stock indexes, we are trading contracts on oil and stock indexes. The zero-sum nature of our trading, in aggregate, is a mechanical or, you could say, an accounting matter. It's automatic, applies to all accounts equally, and is just in the nature of the way that futures exchanges are set up.



It's not a matter of good or bad, it's not something to have a preference about, it's not theoretical, it doesn't mean retailers have to lose -- it's just a factual matter of how all futures accounts function. And certainly, some traders can win consistently.



Bob.



I have a question with respect to this. Are there a set amount of contracts in the futures market for each individual traded symbol? Or do they create and kill contracts based on demand?


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #204 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,450 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,912 given, 21,581 received


ch123456 View Post
I have a question with respect to this. Are there a set amount of contracts in the futures market for each individual traded symbol? Or do they create and kill contracts based on demand?

You're quoting from a post written over a year ago (this thread is pretty old), but OK:

Suppose you go into the market and put in an order to buy CL (West Texas Intermediate Crude). Someone else takes the other side with an order to sell. They are matched and you now have an open long position. Let's say you only bought 1 contract, although this applies to any number. The contracts are standardized as to amounts and dates of delivery.

When you and the seller had your orders matched, a contract to buy a certain amount of Crude on a certain date was created, and a contract to sell the same amount of Crude on that date was created. Neither contract existed before, and didn't need to: a contract is created by agreement of the parties. (The counterparty for each is actually the exchange, which means you are not tied to the person who took the opposite side of the trade, and are not at risk if they do not uphold their obligations.)

These contracts can then be traded with any other participant in the market. For instance, you can close your position by putting in a sell order. Someone will take the other side of it, and your long position will be closed out on the books. The other person (the buyer) in this case may have opened a new long position, or may have been closing a short by offsetting with a buy. Margin is put up by the parties to cover the mark-to-market debit or credit that is made to each account due to fluctuations in price during the day. The amount of margin is very small compared to the value of the crude that the contract is for, but the oil is not going to be delivered or paid for for some time.

Futures contracts are not assets and don't exist until the actual contracts are entered into. They disappear when closed out. The "open interest" (total contracts in existence) expands and contracts over time based on trading. If contracts are held until delivery, actual physical oil will be bought or sold based on the contracts that are held (x number of barrels at y price,) and actual real oil and real money (quite a lot of both) will change hands.

You or I will have closed out our futures positions (or our brokers will have closed us out) before that happens. (Well, unless we actually possess the actual oil or money and plan to go to delivery. )

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 13 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #205 (permalink)
 TheShrike 
Hi Mom!
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Experience: None
Broker: Tasty
Trading: STONKS
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 
Posts: 528 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 1,575 given, 902 received

You are a very patient man Bob. I salute you.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to TheShrike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #206 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
 
bobwest's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,450 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 48,912 given, 21,581 received


TheShrike View Post
You are a very patient man Bob. I salute you.

I get wrapped up in these explanations and lose track of the time.

I think it's worthwhile to go over these basics sometimes, though. No one arrives at futures trading with all this settled and understood in their minds, and we had to learn it from someone else at one time too.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #207 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Edge Clear
Trading: MES
 
snax's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,580 since Feb 2019
Thanks: 6,297 given, 6,313 received


bobwest View Post
I get wrapped up in these explanations and lose track of the time.

I think it's worthwhile to go over these basics sometimes, though. No one arrives at futures trading with all this settled and understood in their minds, and we had to learn it from someone else at one time too.

Bob.

You certainly continue to teach me a lot @bobwest, I truly appreciate the experience you share on here every day. Not to mention the admin work you do. Cheers!

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to snax for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #208 (permalink)
Wild one
chicago, IL USA
 
 
Posts: 8 since Mar 2020
Thanks: 4 given, 1 received


xevanchan View Post
Well, i'm back. You may remember me "catastrophic loss days". I really.....

BTW before I start...that has got to be one of the cutest Korgy pics I've seen. There's another one floating on the internet of a puppy that just finished a whole jar of jam and passed out the same way.

Okay...There's so much on this topic all over. I have to say to you if you're still around and any other's that are serious. Trading (retail) is a performance profession. It's probably one of the hardest things that I had to learn and still am learning. As someone that worked in the industry and will tell you that even guys like me are a dime a dozen that can't cut it. You'd think it was the opposite right? Well I'll be the first to tell you we are no different than the rest of you. We're human just like everyone else. After about three years I'm finally starting to find the traction that I worked hard for through all the emotions, sweat and tears in some cases. Literally so many times rubbing my greasy face and forehead in defeat, broke down and in total disappointment.

It was the psychological aspect that I couldn't get my head around. We aren't meant to be trading so to speak. I'll add that I had my own psychological hurdles attributable to my own individuality. You may have to find those of your own.There's plenty of info on this and I suggest reading up first to anyone "trading in the zone" forget who wrote it and guessing if the author was real or not. I'll tell you that it applies totally...Just like in professional golf, another part of m background, every player needs a coach. It doesn't matter if you're tiger woods...you need a mentor or a guide. It doesn't matter if that coach can't play a lick against your own game. Do you think Butch Harmon could out play Tiger even in his prime...NOT. It's the guidance and the eye/experience to see what he needed to do do and work on. Second read and listen to any and everything from Dr. Brett Steenberger. I've seen his name flashed on Futures IO already and I can't say enough how much that man has changed my mental aspect. Just listening while I'm driving again and again. I don't even have to be practicing the exercises he recommends. It just resonates after so many times again and again.

I needed a break after pushing so hard for sometime after I did nothing but force myself to learn and break myself down again and again full time, but it did help in ways. I don't recommend this approach to everyone...as I'm a beast for punishment...another nature of mine so I have to be mindful. I'll tell you the best my golf swing was, was after I stopped playing and practicing for a few years. Everything just came together, just connected and I was hitting the ball so solid, drives to chips...even the put. FYI did you know that the swing is the same all the way down the clubs fundamentally. A lot transfers into trading that I take from the game. I don't play or haven't swung a club in over a decade, but it gets to the point that I practiced in my sleep/dreams. Another thing the amateur doesn't realize. I still do to this day...I can't control it. Just happens.

So when I took a break and let my mind relax from the pushing it started to connect naturally, although the pushing did help. I was at a place where the only option was to incorporate a hard stop each and every time into an edge. I mathematically or psychologically deducted that was the only way for me to make things happen...I problem solved. I journaled and made influential posts with word to tape to the mirrors/walls. I trade FX and I find it arguably one of the hardest vehicles to trade against equities and such, but it's all come together and I don't mean that by the end all be all. That is the quickest way to become a relic in trading. The stop I use is so tight that people wouldn't believe possible that I could make the risk/reward ratios. If you told me that I would've said bullshitt you liar.

This is a game of odds and it's not about this trade or that trade. It's the series of trades that my edge brings me. Man, I'll tell you that there's times that I have trades turn around from three or five points and I get stopped out. I'll let it happen depending on how things are for me that week. I still feel kinda lame when I let a seven point gain reverse, but what I'm really after is the ten or more. Although that's something I still work on as I size up more throughout the coming years. So it's the series of trades throughout the week. Not the one and only or even the two or three or whatever. When I get stopped out or seems like I'm going to, I tell myself literally it is what it is. I have no control what-so-ever. IT IS WHAT IT IS...This is my favorite thought.

I just saw this thread and hopefully you are still trading and others like you are reading my experience and find it helpful. Hopefully I didn't ramble and I'm not the most eloquent with the written word. I feel comfortable telling all this here since it doesn't seem like a shitt-hole like forexfactory or something. We're all human.

Good luck

Reply With Quote


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Emini and Emicro Index > Lost & losing hope


Last Updated on September 27, 2020


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing
 

Journal Challenge w/$1,800 in prizes!

April
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts