Catastrophic Loss Days - futures io
futures io



Catastrophic Loss Days


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one kazz with 4 posts (4 thanks)
    2. looks_two xevanchan with 3 posts (5 thanks)
    3. looks_3 tpredictor with 2 posts (5 thanks)
    4. looks_4 iantg with 2 posts (6 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one matthew28 with 7 thanks per post
    2. looks_two TheShrike with 6.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 TradingOgre with 6 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Leefjl with 3.5 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 4,413 views
    2. thumb_up 81 thanks given
    3. group 18 followers
    1. forum 24 posts
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Catastrophic Loss Days

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
 xevanchan 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader 8
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: emini ES/NQ
 
xevanchan's Avatar
 
Posts: 160 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 173 given, 294 received

I apologize in advance for all the questions and the long post.
I'm sure posts like this are quite common, but despite trading being my #1 priority, I can't seem to become profitable.

I have a clear edge... some days. I've been trading the ES for months now, using a trend based strategy to scalp. My account always seems to get wiped out by one day of absolutely catastrophic losses, like today- I seem to be a much more competent paper trader than cash trader. I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red, which is something i will have to learn to live with.

My loss days are consistent in that they are always significantly larger than my winning days. Am I the only one who absolutely cannot trade on certain days? With my strategy, the worst days for me tend to be choppy days and days where chop is accompanied by sharp breakouts and then chop again. On these days, even if i see what would typically be a good opportunity, it's usually a fake-out or a reversal/big retrace hits me out of nowhere. I also find it difficult to determine trend exhaustion in these scenarios. It just seems so random, but there has to be a method to the madness.

I generally trade a 2-6 tick target and a 2-3 point stop loss and have also considered my stop loss to possibly be too big.
Over the last few weeks my average win is around 3.75 ticks and average loss around 9.5 ticks, so each stop loss is really brutal. I aim for 2-3 points a day.

I also wonder if the retracements I try to enter in are too small, and I should trade off the 30S chart more than the 100T chart. I usually look for retracements that are at least bigger than my targets, but maybe i should be looking for retraces that are at least a few points.

I find that i miss out on many good opportunities when the DOM is moving too fast for me to set a limit order. Aside from placing a market order, how can I trade in these situations?

Lastly, I would appreciate any tips and tricks or anything useful for me to look into. i'm sticking to my strategy, but i'm open to any valuable techniques or strategies that you use in your trading. I want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious.

I apologize if these are novice questions, but I'm really just lost and don't know what to do in some situations.
I'm attaching a screenshot of terrible trades I made today, though I obviously overtraded a bit after taking the initial loss. Feel free to beat me up over it.

I appreciate all the advice I can get- Cheers!

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture 2.PNG
Views:	331
Size:	97.0 KB
ID:	259944  
Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to xevanchan for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Thinkorswim MACD Thinkscript
ThinkOrSwim
NT8 connectivity by FXI API to unsupported brokers?
NinjaTrader
Multichart NET set signal parameters different than the …
MultiCharts
Simple "runner" code
EasyLanguage Programming
Multichart NET: where can i find esplanation on CustomIn …
MultiCharts
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
How much do you know about Bitcoin?
97 thanks
FIO Journal Challenge - April 2021 w/Jigsaw Trading
38 thanks
The Crude Dude Oil Trading System
36 thanks
I finally blew up an account
35 thanks
EdgeProX from Edge Clear
20 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
 iantg 
charlotte nc
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini (ES, YM, NQ, ect.)
 
Posts: 399 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 76 given, 1,092 received


Hi xevanchan,

The short answer is that you need to kick the tires on your "edge" more. The long answer is that you have to be able to handle all market conditions and not just those that are favorable for your trading strategy.

For example, when the market is moving straight up or straight down, trend follow systems do well. Everyone's first lesson in trading is how to do well on strong trend days, using moving averages and MACDs is akin to learning to program "hello world" for the first time. Can you get all the way there with just this? Absolutely not.

By contrast the opposite style of trading (Ranges) trades on the concept of shorter profit targets and longer stop losses and due to the market having no direction, you will hit your profit target way more frequently than a stop provided that you set your stop reasonably out of the range the market is moving.

So these are the two main types of markets and a very brief description of the basics for trading these. The hard part, that most traders overlook is that you have to be able to quantify when you are in which market, and when one cycle will stop and another will start. This is where you would need to focus to be successful IMO.

Before you trade with money again, see if your system, rules, edge, etc. can pass this test:

How does it perform when the market is trending strong?
How does it perform when it is in a range?
Can you adapt to have different rules to combat each?
Can you reasonably predict when the market will change from one cycle to another?

Once you can crack this, then move to cash trading... Most won't be able to pass this part, so if anything you will save money by staying in SIM.

For the record I am not a day trader, so there are likely others that can offer better advice, but I'll just throw my two cents out there in case it helps.

Ian









xevanchan View Post
I apologize in advance for all the questions and the long post.
I'm sure posts like this are quite common, but despite trading being my #1 priority, I can't seem to become profitable.

I have a clear edge... some days. I've been trading the ES for months now, using a trend based strategy to scalp. My account always seems to get wiped out by one day of absolutely catastrophic losses, like today- I seem to be a much more competent paper trader than cash trader. I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red, which is something i will have to learn to live with.

My loss days are consistent in that they are always significantly larger than my winning days. Am I the only one who absolutely cannot trade on certain days? With my strategy, the worst days for me tend to be choppy days and days where chop is accompanied by sharp breakouts and then chop again. On these days, even if i see what would typically be a good opportunity, it's usually a fake-out or a reversal/big retrace hits me out of nowhere. I also find it difficult to determine trend exhaustion in these scenarios. It just seems so random, but there has to be a method to the madness.

I generally trade a 2-6 tick target and a 2-3 point stop loss and have also considered my stop loss to possibly be too big.
Over the last few weeks my average win is around 3.75 ticks and average loss around 9.5 ticks, so each stop loss is really brutal. I aim for 2-3 points a day.

I also wonder if the retracements I try to enter in are too small, and I should trade off the 30S chart more than the 100T chart. I usually look for retracements that are at least bigger than my targets, but maybe i should be looking for retraces that are at least a few points.

I find that i miss out on many good opportunities when the DOM is moving too fast for me to set a limit order. Aside from placing a market order, how can I trade in these situations?

Lastly, I would appreciate any tips and tricks or anything useful for me to look into. i'm sticking to my strategy, but i'm open to any valuable techniques or strategies that you use in your trading. I want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious.

I apologize if these are novice questions, but I'm really just lost and don't know what to do in some situations.
I'm attaching a screenshot of terrible trades I made today, though I obviously overtraded a bit after taking the initial loss. Feel free to beat me up over it.

I appreciate all the advice I can get- Cheers!


In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to iantg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
 TradingOgre 
Evans GA/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage - Philip Capital
Trading: NQ,ES,6E,CL
 
TradingOgre's Avatar
 
Posts: 550 since Jul 2018
Thanks: 902 given, 1,647 received


xevanchan View Post
I apologize in advance for all the questions and the long post.
I'm sure posts like this are quite common, but despite trading being my #1 priority, I can't seem to become profitable.

How long have you been trying? So many people come to trading thinking that they can be profitable within a very short time frame. Don't expect to earn a doctors wage on an elementary education. Be patient, it takes time.


Quoting 
I have a clear edge... some days. I've been trading the ES for months now, using a trend based strategy to scalp. My account always seems to get wiped out by one day of absolutely catastrophic losses, like today- I seem to be a much more competent paper trader than cash trader. I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red, which is something i will have to learn to live with.

My loss days are consistent in that they are always significantly larger than my winning days. Am I the only one who absolutely cannot trade on certain days?

It's rare for any single strategy to be profitable all the time. What are all of the indicators on your chart doing for you? It's possible that since you are scalping that most if not all of these are too slow to respond to current conditions.


Quoting 
With my strategy, the worst days for me tend to be choppy days and days where chop is accompanied by sharp breakouts and then chop again. On these days, even if i see what would typically be a good opportunity, it's usually a fake-out or a reversal/big retrace hits me out of nowhere. I also find it difficult to determine trend exhaustion in these scenarios. It just seems so random, but there has to be a method to the madness.

You have to be prepared for unexpected reversals. All it takes is for Trump to tweet something and the markets will pop hard in one direction. Usually later in the day one of his aids will speak out and retract what Trump said and the markets will swing back the other direction. I refer to it as a Trump and Dump.

Be aware of how much ES tends to move on any given wave. Yeah, there will always be times it exceeds that, so what. You don't need to catch the entire trend to make good money. Your second trade came in after ES had already made about an 80 tick move since the market open about 10 minutes prior. That's quite a move for ES. When it moves that much wait for a significant pull back before even considering another trade in that direction. In other words, you need to become intimately familiar with how ES moves.


Quoting 
I generally trade a 2-6 tick target and a 2-3 point stop loss and have also considered my stop loss to possibly be too big.
Over the last few weeks my average win is around 3.75 ticks and average loss around 9.5 ticks, so each stop loss is really brutal. I aim for 2-3 points a day.

The fact that your stop is about 2-4 times as big as your profit target is your biggest issue. Recovery time after a single loss will be hard to overcome. You will need multiple consecutive wins to overcome one single loss. Hard to focus on the next trade when one trade just wiped all of your profits and then some.

Find ways to reduce your stop and increase your target. The ways these markets are moving right now you may not be able to reduce your stop size but you can most certainly increase your target. If you don't you will need an amazing hit rate to remain profitable.



Quoting 
I also wonder if the retracements I try to enter in are too small, and I should trade off the 30S chart more than the 100T chart. I usually look for retracements that are at least bigger than my targets, but maybe i should be looking for retraces that are at least a few points.

Why did you take the second trade? ES had just made a significant move up (about 20 points). I don't really see any pull back to trade off of. Looks almost like a FOMO trade (Fear of Missing Out).


Quoting 
I find that i miss out on many good opportunities when the DOM is moving too fast for me to set a limit order. Aside from placing a market order, how can I trade in these situations?

Hot keys can be your friend here or trade directly on the chart by enabling chart trader. It will allow you to right click on the chart where you want your entry then just select the type from the menu. My mind is too slow for the DOM, I like to trade visually.


Quoting 
Lastly, I would appreciate any tips and tricks or anything useful for me to look into. i'm sticking to my strategy, but i'm open to any valuable techniques or strategies that you use in your trading. I want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious.

I apologize if these are novice questions, but I'm really just lost and don't know what to do in some situations.
I'm attaching a screenshot of terrible trades I made today, though I obviously overtraded a bit after taking the initial loss. Feel free to beat me up over it.

I appreciate all the advice I can get- Cheers!

This forum isn't like most forums out there. The people here for the most part genuinely want to help you and see you succeed.

1. Study your charts. Zoom out. Look at how ES moves the first few minutes of a trading day. What happens later? Maybe the key for your trading style is to step aside for a period of time then start trading. Look for times of the day that are more favorable to your trading style and experience.
2. Study your trades IN DETAIL. Keep a journal. Analyze every single trade for what went right what went wrong, etc. Look for key characteristics of the good and the bad trades.
3. Be patient. It takes far more time to learn than most realize.
4. Psychology of trading live is much different than sim trading. This is the most difficult thing for anyone to learn.
5. There is no shame in dropping back to sim for a few days to work out issues you are having. I just did it for the entire week because I had been away from trading for over a month and I am very happy that I did. Took me until today to get back into the rhythm of trading. Trade sim just like you would trade live and analyze every trade.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to TradingOgre for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
 teamtc247 
Fairburn, Georgia
 
Experience: None
 
teamtc247's Avatar
 
Posts: 979 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 644 given, 1,107 received


xevanchan View Post
I apologize in advance for all the questions and the long post.
I'm sure posts like this are quite common, but despite trading being my #1 priority, I can't seem to become profitable.

I have a clear edge... some days. I've been trading the ES for months now, using a trend based strategy to scalp. My account always seems to get wiped out by one day of absolutely catastrophic losses, like today- I seem to be a much more competent paper trader than cash trader. I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red, which is something i will have to learn to live with.

My loss days are consistent in that they are always significantly larger than my winning days. Am I the only one who absolutely cannot trade on certain days? With my strategy, the worst days for me tend to be choppy days and days where chop is accompanied by sharp breakouts and then chop again. On these days, even if i see what would typically be a good opportunity, it's usually a fake-out or a reversal/big retrace hits me out of nowhere. I also find it difficult to determine trend exhaustion in these scenarios. It just seems so random, but there has to be a method to the madness.

I generally trade a 2-6 tick target and a 2-3 point stop loss and have also considered my stop loss to possibly be too big.
Over the last few weeks my average win is around 3.75 ticks and average loss around 9.5 ticks, so each stop loss is really brutal. I aim for 2-3 points a day.

I also wonder if the retracements I try to enter in are too small, and I should trade off the 30S chart more than the 100T chart. I usually look for retracements that are at least bigger than my targets, but maybe i should be looking for retraces that are at least a few points.

I find that i miss out on many good opportunities when the DOM is moving too fast for me to set a limit order. Aside from placing a market order, how can I trade in these situations?

Lastly, I would appreciate any tips and tricks or anything useful for me to look into. i'm sticking to my strategy, but i'm open to any valuable techniques or strategies that you use in your trading. I want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious.

I apologize if these are novice questions, but I'm really just lost and don't know what to do in some situations.
I'm attaching a screenshot of terrible trades I made today, though I obviously overtraded a bit after taking the initial loss. Feel free to beat me up over it.

I appreciate all the advice I can get- Cheers!

I would start with this. Don't go lower than the than a 200 tick chart. Take less trades. Refine your trade setups. Look for retracements with waves of two, no more than 61.8 retracement. Don't take trades any less than 1:1 risk.. Trade with the trend, higher time frame intraday charts. If you're trading retracments you're usually going for measured move targets. This isn't an easy answer, this is like a webinar series and years of practice and failing (experience).

Process oriented goals #1.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to teamtc247 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
 MiniP 
Market Wizard
Columbus OHIO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES,
 
MiniP's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,143 since May 2017
Thanks: 1,104 given, 2,899 received


xevanchan View Post
I apologize in advance for all the questions and the long post.
I'm sure posts like this are quite common, but despite trading being my #1 priority, I can't seem to become profitable.

I have a clear edge... some days. I've been trading the ES for months now, using a trend based strategy to scalp. My account always seems to get wiped out by one day of absolutely catastrophic losses, like today- I seem to be a much more competent paper trader than cash trader. I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red, which is something i will have to learn to live with.

My loss days are consistent in that they are always significantly larger than my winning days. Am I the only one who absolutely cannot trade on certain days? With my strategy, the worst days for me tend to be choppy days and days where chop is accompanied by sharp breakouts and then chop again. On these days, even if i see what would typically be a good opportunity, it's usually a fake-out or a reversal/big retrace hits me out of nowhere. I also find it difficult to determine trend exhaustion in these scenarios. It just seems so random, but there has to be a method to the madness.

I generally trade a 2-6 tick target and a 2-3 point stop loss and have also considered my stop loss to possibly be too big.
Over the last few weeks my average win is around 3.75 ticks and average loss around 9.5 ticks, so each stop loss is really brutal. I aim for 2-3 points a day.

I also wonder if the retracements I try to enter in are too small, and I should trade off the 30S chart more than the 100T chart. I usually look for retracements that are at least bigger than my targets, but maybe i should be looking for retraces that are at least a few points.

I find that i miss out on many good opportunities when the DOM is moving too fast for me to set a limit order. Aside from placing a market order, how can I trade in these situations?

Lastly, I would appreciate any tips and tricks or anything useful for me to look into. i'm sticking to my strategy, but i'm open to any valuable techniques or strategies that you use in your trading. I want to make sure i'm not missing something obvious.

I apologize if these are novice questions, but I'm really just lost and don't know what to do in some situations.
I'm attaching a screenshot of terrible trades I made today, though I obviously overtraded a bit after taking the initial loss. Feel free to beat me up over it.

I appreciate all the advice I can get- Cheers!

I think we all have been in this situation, I to use to scalp a few ticks from the es and it's hard yes it is do able but a few things need to change. You need to be hitting a minimum of 1:2 risk reward. Look at a high time frame check a 1000 tick chart. We have all been there where we want to trade every second and I know I still get caught up in this and certain days I take way to many trades but slow it down and try to think big picture... go with the flow ... and yeah some days are just shitty days I walked away with 7 puts nq today when I was signaled in to 4 trades that would of been 90 pts.... some days are just shitty but keep a journal keep reflecting what's wrong a pick 1 thing to change every week and eventually you will be where you want to.... this is a life long marathon


Good luck


-P

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie"-Miyamoto Musashi
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to MiniP for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
 xevanchan 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader 8
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: emini ES/NQ
 
xevanchan's Avatar
 
Posts: 160 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 173 given, 294 received

@TradingOgre I've been trading paper and live for just about 5-6 months now- the indicators are somewhat redundant and I may just take your advice and remove them- the woodies and wavetrend are supposed to help me identify trends and are supposedly "non-lagging" indicators, but I don't look at them often at all

I looked into my stop loss after reading your post and realized you're right in that my 2x+ stop loss is definitely too large. I'm going to make my stop significantly lower, maybe 2-6 ticks. I also figured that larger targets (6-12) are the way to go, even if I have to sacrifice hit rate. My MFE is consistently larger than my profits.

I made that second trade because my issue with the DOM- I couldn't get in on a retrace because it was moving too damn quick- by the time I executed on a tiny retrace, it was already overextended and the reversal hit me hard. Im sure FOMO played a role as well. The momentum seemed strong but looking back it wasn't a trade I should have taken

Thanks for the tips- I've been keeping a journal and think i'm getting better every week!

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to xevanchan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
 xevanchan 
New York City, NY
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader 8
Broker: Dorman Trading
Trading: emini ES/NQ
 
xevanchan's Avatar
 
Posts: 160 since Sep 2018
Thanks: 173 given, 294 received

@MiniP I appreciate the kind words!

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Started this thread Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to xevanchan for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
Posts: 148 since Apr 2018
Thanks: 166 given, 78 received


iantg View Post
Hi xevanchan,

For the record I am not a day trader, so there are likely others that can offer better advice, but I'll just throw my two cents out there in case it helps.

Ian

Interested to hear that you are not a day trader. This is the route l would like to follow too. What instruments are you trading and what strategy steer you using? Also, do you trade off daily or weekly charts? Thanks, Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kazz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
 matthew28 
Legendary Elite_Member
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Trading: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 994 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 2,499 given, 1,824 received


As others have said. Better Reward:Risk ratio and larger profit targets.
I bet your day pictured went something like this:

Place the first trade and you automatically exit for a point profit.
Price goes up a bit more then comes back to where you had entered so you are pleased that you took a point rather than getting stopped at break even.
Price quickly goes up a dozen points or so and you are kicking yourself and finally get back in long twelve points above your previous long entry, then take a loss larger than your previous win and find yourself negative despite price having gone up like you thought. Then you throw away more money in frustration.

Also "I'm thinking about setting a max loss, but I hate closing in the red". Better to stop and take a small losing day when things aren't working, and know that your average winning day is greater so you can easily make it back tomorrow or the next day. Stopping for the day and switching off can be hard but feeling pleased with yourself afterwards because you followed your loss rules and having the confidence that you can easily make it back with a good day is much better than switching off at the end of the day feeling emotionally drained and like a complete idiot as well.

And decide too on a rule for your trading plan so that when you do reach your Maximum Daily Loss you know whether you will:

1. Switch off the computer and step away and do something else.
2. Step away but keep screen recording for the rest of the session so you can watch it back later and still learn from it.
3. Keep watching the screen and learn from today's price action and market movements (but close your DOM just to be on the safe side and avoid anything impulsive).
4. Sim trade. Personally I wouldn't. If you sim trade and make the money back you will be tempted to carry on next time. If you sim trade and lose more you are just mentally reinforcing probably poor technique.

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
 Leefjl 
Fort Lauderdale Florida
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ToS
Trading: EMini ES
 
Posts: 3 since Jun 2017
Thanks: 6 given, 7 received

I would suggest trying to learn price action. I purchased Al Brooks video and so far it's the best thing I've done for my trading.

Ninjatrader has a free market replay that's great for practice. I can spend a few hours after work to get some screen time.

I also like to listen to trading psychology on Youtube. Search for Mark Douglas to start.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to Leefjl for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
Posts: 148 since Apr 2018
Thanks: 166 given, 78 received


Leefjl View Post
I would suggest trying to learn price action. I purchased Al Brooks video and so far it's the best thing I've done for my trading.

Ninjatrader has a free market replay that's great for practice. I can spend a few hours after work to get some screen time.

I also like to listen to trading psychology on Youtube. Search for Mark Douglas to start.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Thanks @Leefjl couple of questions if you don't mind:

1. What is it about Al Brooks video that you find so useful in particular?

2. Is the market replay part of the basic ninja trader package and is it available for all instruments? I take it that it's a feature for day traders though?

Thanks Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kazz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
 Leefjl 
Fort Lauderdale Florida
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: ToS
Trading: EMini ES
 
Posts: 3 since Jun 2017
Thanks: 6 given, 7 received


kazz View Post
Thanks @Leefjl couple of questions if you don't mind:

1. What is it about Al Brooks video that you find so useful in particular?

2. Is the market replay part of the basic ninja trader package and is it available for all instruments? I take it that it's a feature for day traders though?

Thanks Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

I have his three of Al's books on trend, ranges and reversal. It's a breakdown of his original book. For me it takes a long time to read because you go back and forth reading and looking at the examples.

I find it easier listening to him while he points to the charts.

As for Ninjatrader I believe you can get replay end of day (EOD) data for any instrument. Just get a demo account and use the EOD free connection.

I'll go back a few months so my practice is not influenced by the most recent action.

Lee

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Leefjl for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
 TradingOgre 
Evans GA/USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage - Philip Capital
Trading: NQ,ES,6E,CL
 
TradingOgre's Avatar
 
Posts: 550 since Jul 2018
Thanks: 902 given, 1,647 received


kazz View Post
Thanks @Leefjl couple of questions if you don't mind:

1. What is it about Al Brooks video that you find so useful in particular?

2. Is the market replay part of the basic ninja trader package and is it available for all instruments? I take it that it's a feature for day traders though?

Thanks Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

2. Yes. Market replay data is even available for people who downloaded the free version of NT. It includes all DOM info and time & sales info. Works really well at replaying the market as close to live as possible. Go to Tools -> Historical Data -> click on the tab at the bottom that says "Load"->Then select "Get Market Replay Data". To use it, disconnect from your live data source and connect to the one called "Playback Connection". Set the start and end date you want to use and give it a few seconds to load.

The only drawback is that you have to load each day one by one but it only takes a few seconds per day. I usually wait until Friday evening then download the previous week so I have something to play with on the weekend.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to TradingOgre for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
 iantg 
charlotte nc
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NinjaTrader
Trading: Emini (ES, YM, NQ, ect.)
 
Posts: 399 since Jan 2015
Thanks: 76 given, 1,092 received

HI Kazz,

I used to program intra-day trading strategies a few years back... but am currently only interested in microstucuture research for low latency algo trading. So in terms of longer horizons, I am actually in the opposite space currently. Micro-scalping or even HF would be the best way to characterize the types of strategies that I am currently pursuing.

Ian


kazz View Post
Interested to hear that you are not a day trader. This is the route l would like to follow too. What instruments are you trading and what strategy steer you using? Also, do you trade off daily or weekly charts? Thanks, Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app


In the analytical world there is no such thing as art, there is only the science you know and the science you don't know. Characterizing the science you don't know as "art" is a fools game.
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to iantg for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
Posts: 148 since Apr 2018
Thanks: 166 given, 78 received


Leefjl View Post
I have his three of Al's books on trend, ranges and reversal. It's a breakdown of his original book. For me it takes a long time to read because you go back and forth reading and looking at the examples.

I find it easier listening to him while he points to the charts.

As for Ninjatrader I believe you can get replay end of day (EOD) data for any instrument. Just get a demo account and use the EOD free connection.

I'll go back a few months so my practice is not influenced by the most recent action.

Lee

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Thanks @Leefjl really appreciate your help. Paul

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kazz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
 TheShrike 
Hi Mom!
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Experience: None
Broker: Tasty
Trading: STONKS
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 
Posts: 528 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 1,575 given, 903 received

Stop trading ES on a tiny timeframe chart immediately. You'll lose all your money and you won't learn anything. Look at the micro contracts. You'll actually be able to set a realistic stop and target. Don't sim trade except to understand the platform you're using and trade execution. This is just my opinion but I believe anything other than that on sim is a waste of time. You'll learn exponentially faster about what real trading is all about trading real money. Most of trading is psychological and you will experience none of that on sim.

Yes, you'll make mistakes but the tick value is a lot smaller. Make sure it's money you don't care about and don't mind losing. Don't be afraid to market in on legit opportunities. A few ticks either way shouldn't matter. If it's a good trade you want to be in it. There may be few to no legit trades in any given day. This game isn't about sitting around clicking buttons and then rolling around in a pile of money. Learn to be patient and wait. If you find yourself with a good entry you have to learn to hold it so you can take advantage of a ripping move in your favor. Good profitable trading can be very simple. Trading pullbacks in a trend works, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Hope it helps.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to TheShrike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
 dalebru 
Indianapolis/IN
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SC, NT, ToS, my own
Broker: Stage5, InteractiveBrokers
Trading: ES
 
Posts: 67 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 1,030 given, 110 received


TheShrike View Post
Stop trading ES on a tiny timeframe chart immediately. You'll lose all your money and you won't learn anything. Look at the micro contracts. You'll actually be able to set a realistic stop and target. Don't sim trade except to understand the platform you're using and trade execution. This is just my opinion but I believe anything other than that on sim is a waste of time. You'll learn exponentially faster about what real trading is all about trading real money. Most of trading is psychological and you will experience none of that on sim.

Yes, you'll make mistakes but the tick value is a lot smaller. Make sure it's money you don't care about and don't mind losing. Don't be afraid to market in on legit opportunities. A few ticks either way shouldn't matter. If it's a good trade you want to be in it. There may be few to no legit trades in any given day. This game isn't about sitting around clicking buttons and then rolling around in a pile of money. Learn to be patient and wait. If you find yourself with a good entry you have to learn to hold it so you can take advantage of a ripping move in your favor. Good profitable trading can be very simple. Trading pullbacks in a trend works, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Hope it helps.

What micro contracts? I see one forex one at CME. What am I missing?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to dalebru for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
 TheShrike 
Hi Mom!
Bridgeport, Ct
 
Experience: None
Broker: Tasty
Trading: STONKS
 
TheShrike's Avatar
 
Posts: 528 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 1,575 given, 903 received


dalebru View Post
What micro contracts? I see one forex one at CME. What am I missing?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

M6E and the mini oil QM. I should have specified the oil was a mini not a micro.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to TheShrike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
 Devil Man 
Legendary Capt. Johnny Jameson
Fort Lauderdale
 
Experience: None
Platform: Optimus Flow, NT8. TS
Broker: CQG, Rithmic
Trading: ES
 
Devil Man's Avatar
 
Posts: 811 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,055 given, 1,427 received


TheShrike View Post
Stop trading ES on a tiny timeframe chart immediately. You'll lose all your money and you won't learn anything. Look at the micro contracts. You'll actually be able to set a realistic stop and target. Don't sim trade except to understand the platform you're using and trade execution. This is just my opinion but I believe anything other than that on sim is a waste of time. You'll learn exponentially faster about what real trading is all about trading real money. Most of trading is psychological and you will experience none of that on sim.

Yes, you'll make mistakes but the tick value is a lot smaller. Make sure it's money you don't care about and don't mind losing. Don't be afraid to market in on legit opportunities. A few ticks either way shouldn't matter. If it's a good trade you want to be in it. There may be few to no legit trades in any given day. This game isn't about sitting around clicking buttons and then rolling around in a pile of money. Learn to be patient and wait. If you find yourself with a good entry you have to learn to hold it so you can take advantage of a ripping move in your favor. Good profitable trading can be very simple. Trading pullbacks in a trend works, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Hope it helps.

Words of Wisdom.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Devil Man for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Trading: es
 
Posts: 644 since Nov 2011

@xevanchan

I would advise setting a daily loss limit because if you follow it then you know you will never lose more then x% on any given day. This knowledge makes it more possible to trade aggressively. However, as to whether or not it actually helps you, is based on specific factors of your trades. For example, if you use a tight stop loss then having a run of serially correlated losses can be a significant risk.

There is a trade off between trade selectivity and trade frequency. The mathematics work such that if you trade more selectively then you need to risk more per trade which increases risk of greater drawdown. It also tends to mean that you trade during more exceptional periods which are by definition more risky. If you increase your trade frequency then you risk less per trade but take more mediocre trades-- so trading costs become more predominant.

I suspect you need to become more selective in your trading. One technique I used in the past that seemed to possibly help was to try to identify the best trade in every X period window. If you can capture the best trade ideas of the day then you will not need to take as many trades.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
 Keab 
London UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart/TT/
Broker: LCT/Denali
Trading: SandP futures
 
Posts: 445 since Jul 2013
Thanks: 62 given, 258 received

1) ditch all and any oscillators. They are useless. They are lagging indicators that reflect the past and are basically weighted averages that you outsource your decision making to. In a psychological sense this is their siren like attraction to traders because they handily avoid you having to take any real trading decisions.

2) If you're trading SandP futures you should be using volume as part of your guide. If there is a volume spurt then what does this mean?

3) You can still trade short term but look at 5min/15min/1 hour charts for S/R levels.

4) Learn market structure/price action. I can recommend a bloke on youtube called Mark Douglas who does a great job on explaining how matkets work. I think his videos are titled something like beat the banks or stop hunts/stop hunting. You will gain a greater understanding why markets chop and why they take off.

5) Look at posts made by Dionysius Toaston this site. He owns (I think) a DOM application but more importantly he explains market structure (where people are likely to buy and sell and why) very well.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Keab for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
Posts: 148 since Apr 2018
Thanks: 166 given, 78 received


tpredictor View Post
@xevanchan

I would advise setting a daily loss limit because if you follow it then you know you will never lose more then x% on any given day. This knowledge makes it more possible to trade aggressively. However, as to whether or not it actually helps you, is based on specific factors of your trades. For example, if you use a tight stop loss then having a run of serially correlated losses can be a significant risk.

There is a trade off between trade selectivity and trade frequency. The mathematics work such that if you trade more selectively then you need to risk more per trade which increases risk of greater drawdown. It also tends to mean that you trade during more exceptional periods which are by definition more risky. If you increase your trade frequency then you risk less per trade but take more mediocre trades-- so trading costs become more predominant.

I suspect you need to become more selective in your trading. One technique I used in the past that seemed to possibly help was to try to identify the best trade in every X period window. If you can capture the best trade ideas of the day then you will not need to take as many trades.

However, am l right on thinking that if you trade futures, there is always the risk of a major catastrophic loss due to limit down or up?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kazz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Trading: es
 
Posts: 644 since Nov 2011

If you trade many contracts with a tight stop then a news event that leads to a quick drop in liquidity (slippage) that can cause larger then anticipated losses or, for example, holding through a report release by accident or mistake. The other major risk is holding over closed periods (such as weekends) where the market could gap up or down significantly on events over the closed period such as a weekend. There are other sources of potential large losses or gains such as leaving open orders out by mistake, software bugs, or setting the wrong order type (stop failing to trigger, for example). Some periods such as trading overnight are more risky due to reduced liquidity and higher potential for gaming behavior.



kazz View Post
However, am l right on thinking that if you trade futures, there is always the risk of a major catastrophic loss due to limit down or up?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
 Cloudy 
desert CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, SC, ToS
Broker: AMP, DT, TDA
Trading: CL,NQ,YM
 
Posts: 2,135 since Jul 2011
Thanks: 2,388 given, 1,727 received

Looking at your chart OP, I've been where you're at. Been there done that with the Woodies-CCI. I even got his paperback book with his setups at one point, sidewinders, etc. I would suggest trashing it completely. Woodies is a total fraud who somehow had a long time cult following. ( One of several painful, long ago experiences trying out indicators sharing this with you. )

It may be ok to have your wavetrend oscillator as your only oscillator, but mainly to be aware of divergences which can help guide but never used as an entry alone. The ACME volume levels are fine where it looks like at least some decent s/r or reaction levels.

As others have mentioned, if you're going by candlesticks, then it's good to learn some PA if you hadn't done so already. Brooks is a good start, but just for getting an idea of reading the PA, as I think he fails (maybe on purpose) to teach any viable entry methods. ( if he even trades for real, and now just floats on the trading vendor income stream like the rest of them). The classic 20 MA can help as initial background structure (along with your acme levels) when looking at the PA. Then you can come up with your entries on the bars. My 2c and gl.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Cloudy for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Emini and Emicro Index > Catastrophic Loss Days


Last Updated on December 17, 2018


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

NinjaTrader Indicator Challenge!

Ongoing

NEW BlackBird Features + FOREX Support w/Jeremy Tang @ SharkIndicators

Elite only
 

Our 12-year anniversary w/ $$,$$$ prizes (check soon)

June
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada), info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts