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Mini FDAX - FDXM from Eurex


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Mini FDAX - FDXM from Eurex

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  #101 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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jtrade View Post
You find the entire daily range tradeable ?

I'd be interested to see one of your (traded) 5 second FDAX charts, if you care to post one - & is your daily goal still 2R (10 points), or so ?

My Pal do not confuse the daily range and the daily price movement together. They are 2 very different things.

Sure I can post nice pictures for you and show some statistics but I can tell you that you have to widen your picture a little a bit more. What does not work for you definitely does not mean it will not work for others. It is just you man.

We all have our differencies and we see things from different angles.

My 90% focus is in execution and minimizing my own errors. Setups and things like that are not so important (<10% maybe). These of course are not anything exact numbers but tells something about the priorities and weights.

Just wanted to see how wide stops you are setting for your initial losses. IMO you do not have to complain yourself setting daily goals too high

Peace !

btw. im trading from 2 tick range bars they fits better to my trading methods and strategy. Inlitial stoplosses between 8 to 16 ticks. Im talking about FDAX.

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  #102 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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Scalpguy View Post
We all have our differencies and we see things from different angles.

I certainly agree with you there.

I asked because seeing others' actual trades is what (a great part of) this forum is all about.

Otherwise it's hard to tell who's just talking the talk (not saying that's you, btw, 'cos I simply have no idea).....

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  #103 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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jtrade View Post
I certainly agree with you there.

I asked because seeing others' actual trades is what (a great part of) this forum is all about.

Otherwise it's hard to tell who's just talking the talk (not saying that's you, btw, 'cos I simply have no idea).....

no problem at all.

I personally do not put ppl into any categoria. I am thankful for any information you give me. What I am going to do with this information it depends...

Anyway FDXM is a great new tool for Dax traders and it seems it is received very well. Will see how it develops in future.

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  #104 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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jtrade View Post
I have started trading the Ger30 CFD via Ninjatrader Brokerage...

Switched this week to FDXM.

Volume today as of 09.20 Central Time (last price > volume today > % change > 14 day ATR) :



This will become the European NQ (I sure hope so...).

Edit - 0900 CET (London Open) 13 Jan 2016, then just over 1 hour later :



Almost 5,000 contracts traded during first "full" hour.

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  #105 (permalink)
mess7777
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Very promising to see this is starting to gain some traction. It is very exciting for those of who are freaked out by the size of the current DAX contract.

Thank you for sharing.

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  #106 (permalink)
Angel Pinillos
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Very promising to see this is starting to gain some traction. It is very exciting for those of who are freaked out by the size of the current DAX contract.

Thank you for sharing.

Hello there!!! new at trading, very exciting world indeed!!!

Trying to trade mini FDAX, would like to share experiences. Anyone trading mini-FDAX?
Happy Trading!!!

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  #107 (permalink)
 gboos 
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Still having faith in 'mini FDAX' is a great product ?

Volume wise it is not improving anymore. Spreads is all over ridiculous and not getting better. Even some CFD broker have much better spreads. It's just a self-service for some you already hate.

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  #108 (permalink)
Tommip
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Exacly like gboos - few trader's migrate to mini from ,,big'' one ...and thats all.
Best way is to combine new product's of 2015 - Mini Kospi and mini dax.Kospi is closed market - only IB give access to it while almost every broker got mini dax.Result ? Mini Kospi is almost two times more liquid then Mini Dax on many days.CFD on Dax is way better then Dax on Eurex.0.9 point - it is my all cost on CFD while on Fdax spread itself could be 2 or 3 points.

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  #109 (permalink)
inverter633
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good movement chart better..mdax

whether it is better than the mini Nikkei? I still have not tried 225 n

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  #110 (permalink)
 hoolio 
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inverter633 View Post
good movement chart better..mdax

whether it is better than the mini Nikkei? I still have not tried 225 n

Hi Inverter, not sure what you meant by "good movement chart better...mdax" ???

Anyway, I have tried the emini Nikkei. It is very liquid and the order book inside Bookmap (using CQG data) is very good.
In fact, it is not limited to 10 or 15 levels of depth so you can see adding/subtracing a long way from current price.
I would say the claim by AMP that it is as liquid as ES is almost true, but not quite.

The Interactive Brokers depth data is not as good and I would not use that inside Bookmap but their executions are fine.

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  #111 (permalink)
inverter633
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I currently use rithmic,, means I have to switch to CQG? It costs you nothing extra?

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  #112 (permalink)
 pjimmy 
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Well that was an eventful day- traded the brexit but wasnt able to trade the dax so settled for the fxdm (possibly a bad idea). There were a couple of scary looking times: see the charts attached... The first one I wasn't in a trade- the second I was. Luckily had a stop in place and lost a small amount but the price stuck at 9352 for at least a couple of minutes afterwards. Anyone else notice this at their end?

The only thing constant in life is change
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  #113 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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What I see (the 2nd chart) there was a trading break in that plunge so if you was (un)lucky to get a short sell fill before the halt you was able to close your short only 0..190 points higher ie. you were forced to take a big loss. If there is no market (ask depth in this case) you will get no help from your stoploss orders or they will be execute but with a huge slippage.

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  #114 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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I sent an inquiry for the exchage was there any circuit breaks in active or was it only the market participants who halted their trading (not the exchange).

I was following DAX futures (full and mini) and saw this happening but I was not trading that market (FDXM/FDAX) because of too wide and choppy bid/ask spread. That 2nd chart plunge did not happen in FDAX only in FDXM which is good to know too.

Here is how I received this https://algoboys.com/data/charts/ts3430.gif

It was about 190 point plunge within about 1 second. Then it halted for 2 minutes and opened about 190 points higher. So the total movement something about 380 points. Burn Baby Burn!

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  #115 (permalink)
 pjimmy 
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haha, yes it was quite a drop. Please let me know if you hear back from the exchange, would be good to know about any safety net in place. TBH I kind of think that the proof is in the charts though-which suggests there is nothing in place (or they didn't have if turned on).

-Noticed that my dax charts didn't show either of the spikes too.
I'm less than enthusiastic on the dax mini in general- was only trading it cuz broker wasn't letting me trade full dax.
What I've observed so far watching it vs the dax is its a bit thin still.

The only thing constant in life is change
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  #116 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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Scalpguy View Post
It was about 190 point plunge within about 1 second. Then it halted for 2 minutes and opened about 190 points higher. So the total movement something about 380 points.

If you were in a Dax position over night you could have faced 1100 points...
positive or negative!
Quite a very rare event.

GFIs1

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  #117 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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GFIs1 View Post
If you were in a Dax position over night you could have faced 1100 points...
positive or negative!
Quite a very rare event.
GFIs1

Yes this is very much the case. This is not a good market for swing trading (overnight and weekends) because of the big gap risk.

But we also have to remember the lesson from this case the stop loss orders are not 100% sure thing even doing intra trading. As we saw the market can freeze up and the open by a big cap as now happened.

So you have to look your size you are doing. Do not go too big even the margins gives you change to do it.

Or you may be burned badly.

I did not trade it because of bad spread and choppy/thin depth

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  #118 (permalink)
 jakejake 
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Could anyone comment on how this trades vs the normal DAX contract? Thanks!

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  #119 (permalink)
 podski 
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The FDAX is quoted in half points and the FDXM is quoted in Full points. Overall it is a little more lumpy from time to time.
  • During times when the market is thick (lots of trades ... high liquidity) it trades very much like the FDAX.
  • During times when the market is thin (before 09:00 am CET , lunchtime in Europe and after 17:30 CET) .. it is lumpy. By this I mean that the liquidity is low so market makers pull their orders before any trades are made. You will see the price move without any trades being made (WHAAAT??). Yes .. this happens as the FDAX carries the big stick and the FDXM price is established at all times by market makers (who are in fact paid by the exchange to do this job). The effect of this lumpiness is that you could have pretty large slippage during these times. 10 points slippage is not impossible.

However ...

The fact that the overall size of the contract is smaller is a big feature. It allows you to get into the "I don't care" position size. "I don't care" .. ..often credited to Al Brooks and quoted live on a futures.io webinar ... is the position size that you need to have at all times to ensure that you trade the market structure that you see on the chart, not the P/L number that you see on the DOM.

I am more successful ... by far ... trading the FDXM than the FDAX for that reason. Slippage and commission costs included.

Summary:
  • If you trade a high enough timeframe and you manage your risk, you can of course trade profitably on the FDXM.
  • If you are learning to trade or refining your plan, the smaller size will keep you alive longer ...

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  #120 (permalink)
 TradingTech 
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Interesting approach to the mini-DAX. They've done something right with this contract for sure as volume continues to improve. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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  #121 (permalink)
 FKtrader 
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podski View Post
The FDAX is quoted in half points and the FDXM is quoted in Full points. Overall it is a little more lumpy from time to time.
  • During times when the market is thick (lots of trades ... high liquidity) it trades very much like the FDAX.
  • During times when the market is thin (before 09:00 am CET , lunchtime in Europe and after 17:30 CET) .. it is lumpy. By this I mean that the liquidity is low so market makers pull their orders before any trades are made. You will see the price move without any trades being made (WHAAAT??). Yes .. this happens as the FDAX carries the big stick and the FDXM price is established at all times by market makers (who are in fact paid by the exchange to do this job). The effect of this lumpiness is that you could have pretty large slippage during these times. 10 points slippage is not impossible.

However ...

The fact that the overall size of the contract is smaller is a big feature. It allows you to get into the "I don't care" position size. "I don't care" .. ..often credited to Al Brooks and quoted live on a futures.io webinar ... is the position size that you need to have at all times to ensure that you trade the market structure that you see on the chart, not the P/L number that you see on the DOM.

I am more successful ... by far ... trading the FDXM than the FDAX for that reason. Slippage and commission costs included.

Summary:
  • If you trade a high enough timeframe and you manage your risk, you can of course trade profitably on the FDXM.
  • If you are learning to trade or refining your plan, the smaller size will keep you alive longer ...

Thanks a lot for this info.
I will appreciate if you or any other MINI DAX trader let me know the commission you pay per 1 mini dax contract RT and the same quetion for full DAX contract?
and how much it cost the monthly Eurex Data market?
Best Regards

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  #122 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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  #123 (permalink)
 podski 
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FKtrader View Post
Thanks a lot for this info.
I will appreciate if you or any other MINI DAX trader let me know the commission you pay per 1 mini dax contract RT and the same quetion for full DAX contract?
and how much it cost the monthly Eurex Data market?
Best Regards

You will find the precise costs that I pay at the link below

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf

For the data feed, I pay $23.00 per month


P

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  #124 (permalink)
JJLC
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About a year ago I operated this product with NTBrokerage and I am very happy I am

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  #125 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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After some months trading the NQ in the US morning session, I've switched back to the EU morning - it just doesn't work for family life trading in the late afternoon.

I trade 2 lots in a very simple way off a UniRenko chart (the TSJ thread was instrumental in my adopting this approach).

I started with FDAX, but found it unsuitable for the tight stops I like to use : the spread widens too often, too much.. and it's a big contract. So I switched to FDXM, which is steadily increasing volume and I think would be very suitable for someone trading with a bit more "swing", ie. wider stops and targets.

However, in agreement with @sam028 in post # 84, I have this week started to trade the GER30 CFD with FXCM (not available to US traders) : not only lower margin, but tighter spread, given that the spread includes the commission (typical spread is 1 pt, whereas with FDXM it's 1 - 2 + comms). I have also set my chart up for a min movement of 0.5, so it charts just like the FDAX contract.

The commission issue is important, especially as I am only targeting 20 net ticks/pips per day : if I have one of those unpleasant days where I'm down 30 ticks in the first hour, I usually buckle up for a long grind to get back to breakeven on the day. I usually succeed, but it can take 20 trades (I typically make 3-5 trades / day & am done in the first hour). If a trade is costing a tick or thereabouts, that's 40 ticks just to cover the comms for the day. Not the case with GER30 (I think this is HUGELY significant... what am I missing !?).

I will report back in a month or so : I'm still trading the CFD very small (however, I have traded it 20x larger in the past, without fill issues, ie. EUR 10/lot). My chart for this morning below (I stopped early as I noticed a discrepancy between my FXCM and Ninja P&L, currently waiting for both to get back to me. It might be partly to do with my setting 0.5 as my min move for charting GER30 in Instrument Properties...but then again, it might not).

Is it time to switch to NT8 (as long as UniRenko are available - and I see that they are, my charts are VERY simple)... meaning does NT8 interface better with FXCM,as NT7 has always been glitchy in this regard !?????


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  #126 (permalink)
 choke35 
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jtrade View Post
...

However, in agreement with @sam028 in post # 84, I have this week started to trade the GER30 CFD with FXCM (not available to US traders) : not only lower margin, but tighter spread, given that the spread includes the commission (typical spread is 1 pt, whereas with FDXM it's 1 - 2 + comms). I have also set my chart up for a min movement of 0.5, so it charts just like the FDAX contract.

Please move your post to another thread. This one is about the FDAX Mini Future, not about CFDs and their
respective bucket shops.

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  #127 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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jtrade View Post
After some months trading the NQ in the US morning session, I've switched back to the EU morning - it just doesn't work for family life trading in the late afternoon...

Can you really create a CFD position where one point move in index means 25 euros so that you only need to have $2500 for margin and pay $2.47 commissions/round trip (=0.09 points, AMP futures) as you can do with the FDAX futures where the smallest spread can be 0.5 points ?

CFD makers are playing with that 1 point spread in both ends while opening and closing the trade. This is possible because the spread is not 100% transpanent to futures markets where they offset your positions. Their system is what creates the spread for you and it is very easy to play with it.

You can see the difference only by executing the trades in parallel in both systems. You will see the difference !

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  #128 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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choke35 View Post
Please move your post to another thread. This one is about the FDAX Mini Future, not about CFDs and their respective bucket shops.

If I may say so, it IS relevant, because if you want to trade - & especially day trade - the DAX, there is a choice to be made between instruments, of which the GER30 CFD is one, FDXM another... and presently there are good reasons to trade the CFD rather than the mini-futures.

... & not only that, but at the time I posted, it was the only post on your busy thread so far this year

Having a bad day ?

Edit : and for having the temerity to make a logical comparison of the subject of this thread, FDXM, with an alternative, GER30, @choke35 has well & truly choked - in a somewhat aggressive way, not at all in the spirit of futures.io - and banned me from this thread. My first ever forum banning - you really were having a bad day, as I see you do not usually behave this way.

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  #129 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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Scalpguy View Post
Can you really create a CFD position where one point move in index means 25 euros so that you only need to have $2500 for margin and pay $2.47 commissions/round trip (=0.09 points, AMP futures) as you can do with the FDAX futures where the smallest spread can be 0.5 points ?

CFD makers are playing with that 1 point spread in both ends while opening and closing the trade. This is possible because the spread is not 100% transpanent to futures markets where they offset your positions. Their system is what creates the spread for you and it is very easy to play with it.

You can see the difference only by executing the trades in parallel in both systems. You will see the difference !

I agree that both CFDs and cash forex, in the absence of a regulated exchange, pose additional dangers.

I have put up 4 charts side by side : FDAX, FDXM, GER30 via FXCM (who I use as they are still NinjaTrader's partner, at least in Europe) & GER30 of DukasCopy.

The first 3 track very closely and I feel being able to chart GER30 at 0.5 min move is one of the advantages it has over the mini futures. The DukasCopy CFD was all over the place (but maybe because I was tracking via demo, as I do not have an account with them).

CFD & cash fx trading has changed enormously in the last decade, mostly for the better.

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  #130 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
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jtrade View Post
I agree that both CFDs and cash forex, in the absence of a regulated exchange, pose additional dangers.

I have put up 4 charts side by side : FDAX, FDXM, GER30 via FXCM (who I use as they are still NinjaTrader's partner, at least in Europe) & GER30 of DukasCopy.

The first 3 track very closely and I feel being able to chart GER30 at 0.5 min move is one of the advantages it has over the mini futures. The DukasCopy CFD was all over the place (but maybe because I was tracking via demo, as I do not have an account with them).

CFD & cash fx trading has changed enormously in the last decade, mostly for the better.

The thing is to EXECUTE parallel. Real orders throught the systems. Then you can see the difference in practice. Unfornately by just looking the charts is not the same thing.

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  #131 (permalink)
 jtrade 
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Trading: 6B, 6E
 
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Scalpguy View Post
The thing is to EXECUTE parallel. Real orders throught the systems. Then you can see the difference in practice. Unfornately by just looking the charts is not the same thing.

I get what you're saying : so far, I've found the executions equally good ... (although I have not traded FDAX, FDXM & GER30 on the same day). It has surprised me... for once, pleasantly. I expect there is a limit to size before one gets into trouble, but I think up to EUR 20/pip, it's manageable & that's enough for me.

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  #132 (permalink)
 choke35 
Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES, YM, 6E
 
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jtrade View Post
If I may say so, it IS relevant, because if you want to trade - & especially day trade - the DAX, there is a choice to be made between instruments, of which the GER30 CFD is one, FDXM another... and presently there are good reasons to trade the CFD rather than the mini-futures.

... & not only that, but at the time I posted, it was the only post on your busy thread so far this year

Having a bad day ?

Not always a lack of your breeding is based in other people having a bad day ...

Besides: As the thread owner I know pretty well what is relevant. If you have any problem with that you can
open a thread of your own anytime instead of reporting your bucket shop trades here.

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  #133 (permalink)
 Scalpguy 
Helsinki, Finland
 
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Platform: SC and TWS
Broker: IB and AMP/CQG
Trading: ES
 
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jtrade View Post
I get what you're saying : so far, I've found the executions equally good ... (although I have not traded FDAX, FDXM & GER30 on the same day). It has surprised me... for once, pleasantly. I expect there is a limit to size before one gets into trouble, but I think up to EUR 20/pip, it's manageable & that's enough for me.

Thank you for sharing this info

It takes nothing to be a Pig
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