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Trading the SLA/AMT Intraday


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Trading the SLA/AMT Intraday

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  #301 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012

The best traders can put on a trade without the slightest bit of hesitation or conflict, and just as freely and without hesitation or conflict, admit it isn't working. They can get out of the trade -- even with a loss -- and doing so doesn't resonate the slightest bit of emotional discomfort. In other words, the risks inherent in trading do not cause the best traders to lose their discipline, focus, or sense of confidence. If you are unable to trade without the slightest bit of emotional discomfort (specifically, fear), then you have not learned how to accept the risks inherent in trading. This is a big problem, because to whatever degree you haven't accepted the risk, is the same degree to which you will avoid the risk. Trying to avoid something that is unavoidable will have disastrous effects on your ability to trade successfully.

--Mark Douglas

 
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  #302 (permalink)
lajx
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CONTEXT 05/08



So far it’s been a good day, notwithstanding I am losing my focus especially because of the slow activity during the last 30 min approx., therefore I prefer to Stop Trading for today.

Note: that the 5m bar interval the uptrend is intact


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  #303 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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  #304 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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Enter the retracement. Where? Exactly.

Where is the stop going to be? Exactly. N ticks above the DP? N ticks above the high of the retracement low? Where?

Where will the exit be? Exactly. The break of the DL? If not, how much room will price be given? A tick? Two? Four? 14? 20? The last swing low? The halfway level?

 
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  #305 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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  #306 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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  #307 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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  #308 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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  #309 (permalink)
Gring0
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“In the process of maturing and accepting the norms and laws of a society, the modern person ventures very far from his/her natural and healthy state, typically present only in early childhood. This ‘departure’ has to do with the clogging of the body and psyche - fears, tensions, and cramps of all kinds. For only through a system of bans and limitations enforced by fear of punishment does the average person get prepared for life within a society. This is not a value judgement but a statement of fact. We tend to live like this … stumbling through life ‘skewed’. We come to SYSTEMA like this … all of these limits, fears, and tensions preventing our body and psyche from adequately reacting to external stimuli, and get in the way of well-being. These limitations must be eliminated first.”

SYSTEMA Manual - by Major Konstantin Komarov

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  #310 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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Certainly one could argue that some traders lose because they don't understand enough about the markets and therefore they usually pick the wrong trades. As reasonable as this may sound, it has been my experience that traders with losing attitudes pick the wrong trades regardless of how much they know about the markets. In any case, the result is the same -- they lose. On the other hand, traders with winning attitudes who know virtually nothing about the markets can pick winners; and if they know a lot about the markets, they can pick even more winners.

If you want to change your experience of the markets from fearful to confident, if you want to change your results from an erratic equity curve to a steadily rising one, the first step is to embrace the responsibility and stop expecting the market to give you anything or do anything for you. If you resolve from this point forward to do it all yourself, the market can no longer be your opponent. If you stop fighting the market, which in effect means you stop fighting yourself, you'll be amazed at how quickly you will recognize exactly what you need to learn, and how quickly you will learn it. Taking responsibility is the cornerstone of a winning attitude.

--Mark Douglas

 
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  #311 (permalink)
lajx
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Context 06/08

Attached file

Trades.


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  #312 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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Follow-up





Just a few simple rules . . .

 
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  #313 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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  #314 (permalink)
 TheTradeSlinger 
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lajx View Post
Context 06/08

Attached file

Trades.


Killer trade there on holding the 9:53 or so short by using SLA.

Lajx, I appreciate your posts and your morning context updates.

Thanks

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  #315 (permalink)
lajx
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CONTEXT 07/08



TRADES





2L/2BE

I prefer to Stop Trading

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  #316 (permalink)
 TheTradeSlinger 
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lajx View Post

TRADES


@lajx,

What does the red box represent in this chart?

If it's the range, why not wait for trades at the extremes?

Not critiquing you in the slightest, trying to learn how you apply SLA/AMT in that situation.

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  #317 (permalink)
lajx
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TheTradeSlinger View Post
@lajx,

What does the red box represent in this chart?

If it's the range, why not wait for trades at the extremes?

Not critiquing you in the slightest, trying to learn how you apply SLA/AMT in that situation.


Yes, as is shown in the 60 minutes bar time, the red box is a TR, therefore you have two choices, one is to trade reversals in the extremes and the second is to trade SLA only if the TR is big enough.

In this order of ideas and making a kind of review of the trades, this was my thought process when I was trading today.

First trade, after the open the price spikes the Lower Limit of the TR and a zone where the PDL and the ONL are located, notwithstanding the traders are unable to hold below this Area and the price is reversed, however, this reversion is slightly above the 50% of the previous down movement, fact that shows me (at least to me) that there is no enough strength from the traders to keep pushing the price higher; therefore I take the short when the RET is triggered, despite the fact there is a significant Resistance just ahead of the trade I just decide to pay the “price of admission” and let the price tell me if I was Right or Wrong , hence one must be very focus at this point because is usual strong movements in this kind of interest zones. Later on the price was unable to confirmed the RET and the trade was discarded, because it did not do what was expected.



Second trade, HL on a Support area (PDL, ONL and LL of the TR), RET triggered and confirmed, but after a MFE of 7.25 the trade was in BE, (although close with -1 tick).



Third trade, at this point the price was unable to go below the resistance and above the day’s high, and a hinge is formed, later on the price break to the downside and I decide to enter short again because I wanted to know if the traders could break the resistance zone, therefore I decide to pay once again for the “price of admission”. Later the traders were able to make a LL by only one tick and the price rebound almost immediately (maybe the trade should have been discarded earlier but it's done) and later on the trade was discarded. Then based on the PA of the day I defined a congestion area.



Fourth trade was taken after the price broke the congestion area of the day, notwithstanding from the AMT point of view the trade was taken in a disadvantage position, because the trade was not aligned with its principles (trade the extremes) --- I am also learning to trade.



Thanks for watching my work.

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  #318 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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Whether one agrees with the conclusions drawn or not, this is the sort of thinking that one who is interested in trading price should engage in.

Perhaps the most important aspect of it is that the trade was approached. By looking at the hourly interval at least, lajax was able to perceive the potential range. If he had looked no higher than a 5m, much less a 1m, this range would have been missed. As it was, it provided the basis for his tactics. And he could plan everything out long before the open.

Perhaps an equally important aspect of this is the lack of hope. Lajax knew what he wanted to see. When he didn't see it, he exited the trade and moved on without thinking about it, ready for the next opportunity. The thinking can wait until the session is over and the review is done.

After the ease of the past two days, a third would have been unusual, but one can't make assumptions, particularly when one is faced with what would otherwise be a perfectly good setup. Again, one must know exactly what it is he wants to see and judge the market by its own action. If the market decides it's not going to deliver, then that's that. Tomorrow -- or Monday, at any rate -- is another day.

To lajax: how exactly are you entering during this phase? Are you entering N ticks above the low of the ret? If so, how are you defining the "low"? Have you explored incorporating the DP to determine your entry price?

 
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  #319 (permalink)
Schaefer
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Just wanted to remind everyone about the serious airspace down below (Daily chart).

Schaefer


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  #320 (permalink)
lajx
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DbPhoenix View Post
Whether one agrees with the conclusions drawn or not, this is the sort of thinking that one who is interested in trading price should engage in.

Perhaps the most important aspect of it is that the trade was approached. By looking at the hourly interval at least, lajax was able to perceive the potential range. If he had looked no higher than a 5m, much less a 1m, this range would have been missed. As it was, it provided the basis for his tactics. And he could plan everything out long before the open.

Perhaps an equally important aspect of this is the lack of hope. Lajax knew what he wanted to see. When he didn't see it, he exited the trade and moved on without thinking about it, ready for the next opportunity. The thinking can wait until the session is over and the review is done.

After the ease of the past two days, a third would have been unusual, but one can't make assumptions, particularly when one is faced with what would otherwise be a perfectly good setup. Again, one must know exactly what it is he wants to see and judge the market by its own action. If the market decides it's not going to deliver, then that's that. Tomorrow -- or Monday, at any rate -- is another day.

To lajax: how exactly are you entering during this phase? Are you entering N ticks above the low of the ret? If so, how are you defining the "low"? Have you explored incorporating the DP to determine your entry price?


Hi db.

-When you refer to “this phase”, what exactly do you mean?

-I supposed that when you say “entering the low of the RET”, do you refer to a short trade, right? If so, yes I would enter 4 tick below the Bar that eventually triggered the RET. For example here in the green line.



Regarding to “How are you defining the "low"?” it is based on what I consider as a RET, therefore as is stated in my trading plan the low would be determinate in the next scenarios (Green line)




And finally what is the meaning of DP? I never have seen it before

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  #321 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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Hi db.

-When you refer to “this phase”, what exactly do you mean?

This phase of the process you're going through to finalize your plan.


Quoting 
And finally what is the meaning of DP?

Danger Point.

Incidentally, your charts are much cleaner. Are you finding it easier to see what needs to be seen?

 
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  #322 (permalink)
lajx
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Yes, usually is easier to see the PA without so many lines, especially without Trend Channels that in some cases framed my attention in some things that are not relevant enough as the price behavior



DbPhoenix View Post
Have you explored incorporating the DP to determine your entry price?

Regarding to this: how can I start to explore with the Danger Point? Something related with Reversals and S/R?

 
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  #323 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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lajx View Post
Regarding to this: how can I start to explore with the Danger Point? Something related with Reversals and S/R?

Start here:

There are various ways of entering a trade. Entering solely on the basis of one's risk tolerance isn't nearly enough as one can easily rack up loss after loss. One must also exercise at least some minimal competence in reading price behavior. Given that, entering in relation to the danger point is one option. If you haven't read Wyckoff's course, Ctrl+F the course using "danger".

 
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  #324 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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This has nothing to do with trading, at least directly, but Jeez!



 
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  #325 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
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  #326 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012

Even though the higher high was marginal, the trendline had to be fanned (see post 245).

Either way, the SPX is ranging (like we didn't know that ).


 
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  #327 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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@DbPhoenix do you trade? I mean for a living, like as your primary income, from real trading, on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis.

Do you ever make any trades in this thread? Do you ever actually list a trade direction? Do you ever talk about anything other than hindsight charts or theoretical lines on a chart?

Mike

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  #328 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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@DbPhoenix do you trade? I mean for a living, like as your primary income, from real trading, on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis.

Yes, I do.


Quoting 
Do you ever make any trades in this thread? Do you ever actually list a trade direction? Do you ever talk about anything other than hindsight charts or theoretical lines on a chart?

Mike

The purpose of the thread is to explore Wyckoff's approach to tracking and trading imbalances between supply and demand, particularly with regard to the NQ, though those who are more interested in other mean-reverting instruments are welcome to post charts of them. If the thread is in the wrong place, my apologies. It's fine with me if it's moved.

 
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  #329 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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It appears as though this thread is in the wrong place. So I've moved to here and started over. Given the sloppy beginning of this thread (my fault entirely), a new start may be best for everyone, both those who are familiar with the material and those who are completely new to it.

Charts for tomorrow have already been posted. Those who have posted here are just as welcome to post in the new location.

Db

 
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  #330 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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DbPhoenix View Post
It appears as though this thread is in the wrong place. So I've moved to here and started over. Given the sloppy beginning of this thread (my fault entirely), a new start may be best for everyone, both those who are familiar with the material and those who are completely new to it.

Charts for tomorrow have already been posted. Those who have posted here are just as welcome to post in the new location.

Db

There was nothing wrong with the location of this thread. I was just questioning your experience and if you are a sim trader or actually trading cash, because so far there is no evidence you're trading anything at all in a professional manner.

I believe it's extremely dangerous to tell people they can follow a few lines or ramblings from 50 years ago and make money, especially when you provide no proof of your actual trades to substantiate anything you are saying.

Mike

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  #331 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
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There was nothing wrong with the location of this thread. I was just questioning your experience and if you are a sim trader or actually trading cash, because so far there is no evidence you're trading anything at all in a professional manner.

I believe it's extremely dangerous to tell people they can follow a few lines or ramblings from 50 years ago and make money, especially when you provide no proof of your actual trades to substantiate anything you are saying.

Mike

I began trading in '77, retired in '92, began daytrading futures in '98.

As for substantiation, I've provided my trading plan. Those who want to substantiate it can trade it. If it doesn't work for them, that is not unexpected. Few people can trade price without aids of some sort. But some can. My threads are addressed not only to those who can but to those who'd like to learn how to do so.

You mention something in your new thread guidance about paying it forward. That's what I'm trying to do given that I'm much nearer the end of my life than I'd like to be. I had hoped that by now I'd have been able to find someone who could teach this, but that has not been the case. So far. Hence the SLA.

 
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  #332 (permalink)
Iamdom
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Big Mike View Post
There was nothing wrong with the location of this thread. I was just questioning your experience and if you are a sim trader or actually trading cash, because so far there is no evidence you're trading anything at all in a professional manner.

I believe it's extremely dangerous to tell people they can follow a few lines or ramblings from 50 years ago and make money, especially when you provide no proof of your actual trades to substantiate anything you are saying.

Mike

There is never any evidence that anyone posting on a bulletin board is actually trading. It is up to the individual to test what is being said, there is nothing easier then to fabricate proof. I don't understand how this is even relevant.
And he is not asking people to follow lines he is showing people an objective way to track supply and demand. He stresses the need to develop a personalized trading plan and to test it first, i don't see any danger here.

I am not defending his methods but I don't understand how you can say these things, unless you are not familiar with his writings. I do respect your desire to protect members from bullshiters (RIP Jack Hershey).

Personally, I have seen his work on many boards and I think that he has a lot to offer and is genuine.

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  #333 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Iamdom View Post
There is never any evidence that anyone posting on a bulletin board is actually trading.

Personally, I've provided evidence in the form of real-time posts, real time screen captures from my broker, daily broker emails, statements in the form of daily, monthly and quarterly, and more -- for a period of roughly six months (every single day, every single trade). You can find it on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Anyone could do the same if they want. I don't mean calling one or two trades, or even for a couple days, but for a sustained period of time.

Anything can be faked, but given the posts were real time and everyone can receive email notices and/or look at the edit history, it was easy to see they were genuine. Yes it is possible I faked hundreds of statements from IB, you'll have to decide that for yourself based on my reputation in the community.

Raise your standards. Don't waste your time with people that can't prove what they say.

Mike

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  #334 (permalink)
Schaefer
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Big Mike View Post
Personally, I've provided evidence in the form of real-time posts, real time screen captures from my broker, daily broker emails, statements in the form of daily, monthly and quarterly, and more -- for a period of roughly six months (every single day, every single trade). You can find it on futures.io (formerly BMT).................................
....................Raise your standards. Don't waste your time with people that can't prove what they say.

Mike


Don't flatter yourself, your so called, "evidence" would have been shredded to pieces on Elitetrader. Your reputation on this board may be reputable, since you own the board, but other forums, such as ET does not have a very high opinion of you.

I have followed DBphoenix for over ten years, and I've never seen him coerce someone into following his methods (Wyckoff). He's providing a trading plan, and if one is interested, all s/he has to do is to test it, and decide for oneself. That's what I've done, and am glad, that I did. I took what works for me, and discarded what doesn't.

Incidentally, you've worshiped Al Brooks, a lot, and if I recall correctly, he has never, ever provided a real time call on a trade, and never provided brokerage statements. And yet, you have done many webinars with him; please explain.

I'm here on this board, only because of DBphoenix, and thought this board would be different from ET, as such one would be able to discuss trading plans, and strategies freely without having to worry about trolls. And as it turns out, the owner himself turns out to be the biggest troll on this board.

Schaefer

(Student of DBphoenix, Al Brooks, and wrbtrader; none of whom have provided any brokerage statements to me, and I now trade eminis full time).

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  #335 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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ET is full of banned vendors that were kicked out of futures.io (formerly BMT). Not surprising they don't like me. There are other threads on futures.io (formerly BMT) which have full transparency on vendors and futures.io (formerly BMT), feel free to continue there if your wish.

None of them have come remotely close to the level of transparency I've published, and they are trying to sell stuff where I was only trying to get people to stop scalping.

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  #336 (permalink)
Iamdom
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Big Mike View Post
Personally, I've provided evidence in the form of real-time posts, real time screen captures from my broker, daily broker emails, statements in the form of daily, monthly and quarterly, and more -- for a period of roughly six months (every single day, every single trade). You can find it on futures.io (formerly BMT).

Anyone could do the same if they want. I don't mean calling one or two trades, or even for a couple days, but for a sustained period of time.

Anything can be faked, but given the posts were real time and everyone can receive email notices and/or look at the edit history, it was easy to see they were genuine. Yes it is possible I faked hundreds of statements from IB, you'll have to decide that for yourself based on my reputation in the community.

Raise your standards. Don't waste your time with people that can't prove what they say.

Mike

Maybe you had something to prove which is fine but dbphoenix never made claims which require proof. I don't hear him bragging about what a great trader he is. He is offering information or an approach and it is up to the individual to decide whether this information can help their trading. His posts are civil, well written and emphasize the importance of tracking supply and demand imbalances using price action and lines. I really like that he stresses the need to develop a complete trading plan and to test it first. Seems like useful content to me.

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  #337 (permalink)
mosley
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Big Mike, appreciate your efforts at some accountability, at ANY accountability, but you are wasting your time. He and those who follow him will always fall back on the claim that posting real-time trades can be "easily" faked so why bother. Of course real-time trades could be posted in advance i.e., "if price crosses XYZ I will be long on a market order." But that's not going to happen here so accept the endless theoretical discussion for what it's worth, and those who fawn over him will continue to do so. It's no accident that in all these years he has not been able to teach/train a single person who can explain his methodology and post real-time trades to verify success and profitability. It was that way at Traders Laboratory, it was that way at Elite Trader, and it will be that way at Big Mike's Trading.

 
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  #338 (permalink)
 Neo1 
Christchurch, New Zealand
 
Experience: Beginner
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So is this really a vendor thread in disguise?

"Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and error, not by giving rewards or incentives for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as you can"
 
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  #339 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
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Manta, Ecuador
 
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Neo1 View Post
So is this really a vendor thread in disguise?

I don't think so. To me, what he is teaching is ridiculous. But hey I've made some ridiculous mistakes in the past as well, so I was trying to determine if he actually trades since none of his followers from ET were going to ask him.

He uses free charts and never posts a trade best I can tell. Seems like a sim trader to me. Which would make sense and explain why he believes in this method.

Just my opinion. I'm done with the thread for now, to me it seems clear he is not someone should follow.

Sent from my phone

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  #340 (permalink)
 MaddMaxx 
Flower Mound Texas
 
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Wow, that's enough WTF to bring a hardcore lurker out in the open (102 days until today).

I stumbled onto DB over on EliteTrader about 4-6 months ago and followed him over here. Suffice to say, if he wasn’t here futures.io (formerly BMT) would have -1 on the paying membership list.
For the record, yes, I find the material and discussion very helpful, I would even go as far as to credit it with helping me go from getting pummeled day after day to this might actually be possible after all.

With that said, I would like to publicly thank DB for his seemingly endless efforts in giving back. I have failed thank DB before now and for that DB you have my apologies.

@BigMike - no apologies for you, are you having a bad day because your thread “interruption” seems more about you needing to put your ego on display rather than fuel any sort of objective discussion.
Since we are here on the internet and all, I would like understand from your point of view, what’s the problem with the methodology and why? As I am sure you reviewed the material before you made the decision to rudely insert yourself so this should be a no brainer.


Before I forget , marketsurfer called and wants his Midol back.

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  #341 (permalink)
Stewie
Canada
 
 
Posts: 2 since Jun 2015
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This seems like its going to get into a lot of "he said, she said". Simply put, the followers of DbPhoenix or himself is not providing any evidence or demonstration of how they are using the material to trade profitably. Those against him will likewise not be able to provide any viable reason for why it doesn't or can't work.

Given that his approach seems to suggest an easy way to trade profitably, which is quite an outrageous claim, I do think the onus is on the person making an outrageous claim to provide proof. Isn't this how it goes for outrageous claims?

Perhaps those who find his material beneficial could put up some charts and demonstrate how they used the method to trade profitably. Saying his stuff works without showing how they use it is just as good as saying it doesn't work and moving on.

 
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  #342 (permalink)
 Blash 
Market Chamois
Chicago, IL
 
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Big Mike View Post
I don't think so. To me, what he is teaching is ridiculous. But hey I've made some ridiculous mistakes in the past as well, so I was trying to determine if he actually trades since none of his followers from ET were going to ask him.

He uses free charts and never posts a trade best I can tell. Seems like a sim trader to me. Which would make sense and explain why he believes in this method.

Just my opinion. I'm done with the thread for now, to me it seems clear he is not someone should follow.

Sent from my phone

To me part of the problem is one of respect and consideration. @DbPhoenix posts a ton which for the most part I think is good to get involved like that. But if one is going to use the forum to such a great extent which has some kind of a cost involved ...a server has to store all the info generated by all this posting a moderator @Big Mike in most cases I'm sure does some kind of work related to this in the background its only respectful to join for the super small infinitesimal fee of $100. Paid just once that's it for life. This business can be considered (at least I consider it) a root business. Meaning the point is mainly to just create wealth cash money. There is no customer service no warranty work no endless meetings no product blue prints, water cooler conversations etc.....At least for the vast majority of us retail traders. $100 is right next to nothing in this business. Complete peanuts a drop in the bucket. And for someone like @DbPhoenix that sure talks a good game and makes it seem like he has got this all figured out $100 should be very easy to part with and at his current rate will soon be less than 20 cents per post..... for life..... Heck just tonight I tipped the guy who hung two chandeliers in my house $70 because he was one of the sweetest kindest guys around and did great. Point is in this life if you'er generous you will attract generousness if you'er disrespectful and are looking for a free ride just wanting to take take take and not pay for what you are using its not healthy for the soul of a human being. Yes in another setting something other than trading DbPhoenix can be considered very generous in regard to his time and even here to some degree. But the combination of several factors already stated: non-pro free charting software, lacking direct trade results, huge use of the forum as a free member unlike @Schaefer for example who has 9 post since 2012 or @Iamdom who has 6 posts since July 2015 both as free members. Tells the seasoned that something seems fishy. Like a Tom Busby....lol (I'm speaking first hand knowledge here...can you say 103pt ES 3 lot loser spanning over a month with my cash.....lol...lesson learned!!!)

@DbPhoenix I urge you to join futures.io (formerly BMT) as an Elite member for its paltry asking sum and witness freeing yourself in a small way from the fetters of this world.

Ron

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
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  #343 (permalink)
 dakine 
Volcano, HI
 
Experience: None
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I'm saddened to see this happen here. I thought an exchange of free flowing ideas would be welcomed here and SLA discussions would thrive. DB is already paying it forward by posting and discussing his interpretation of PA using Wyckoff's teachings. Raschke even quotes Wyckoff as an inspiration, I guess she must be ridiculous too. So many other threads cjbooth perry come to mind were allowed without question of sim or live results and they were given a webinar series to promote and discuss. Why all the hate he receives is beyond me. Read the material first before you bash it. If it doesn't work for you then move on. I appreciate your posts DB, your teachings have helped me as a trader, maybe its back to the ghost town of TL but it would be a shame.

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  #344 (permalink)
 MaddMaxx 
Flower Mound Texas
 
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Blash View Post
To me part of the problem is one of respect and consideration. @DbPhoenix posts a ton which for the most part I think is good to get involved like that. But if one is going to use the forum to such a great extent which has some kind of a cost involved ...a server has to store all the info generated by all this posting a moderator @Big Mike in most cases I'm sure does some kind of work related to this in the background its only respectful to join for the super small infinitesimal fee of $100. Paid just once that's it for life. This business can be considered (at least I consider it) a root business. Meaning the point is mainly to just create wealth cash money. There is no customer service no warranty work no endless meetings no product blue prints, water cooler conversations etc.....At least for the vast majority of us retail traders. $100 is right next to nothing in this business. Complete peanuts a drop in the bucket. And for someone like @DbPhoenix that sure talks a good game and makes it seem like he has got this all figured out $100 should be very easy to part with and at his current rate will soon be less than 20 cents per post..... for life..... Heck just tonight I tipped the guy who hung two chandeliers in my house $70 because he was one of the sweetest kindest guys around and did great. Point is in this life if you'er generous you will attract generousness if you'er disrespectful and are looking for a free ride just wanting to take take take and not pay for what you are using its not healthy for the soul of a human being. Yes in another setting something other than trading DbPhoenix can be considered very generous in regard to his time and even here to some degree. But the combination of several factors already stated: non-pro free charting software, lacking direct trade results, huge use of the forum as a free member unlike @Schaefer for example who has 9 post since 2012 or @Iamdom who has 6 posts since July 2015 both as free members. Tells the seasoned that something seems fishy. Like a Tom Busby....lol (I'm speaking first hand knowledge here...can you say 103pt ES 3 lot loser spanning over a month with my cash.....lol...lesson learned!!!)

@DbPhoenix I urge you to join futures.io (formerly BMT) as an Elite member for its paltry asking sum and witness freeing yourself in a small way from the fetters of this world.

Ron

It sounds like your implying that if one were to cough up $100 the trolling would go away?

 
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  #345 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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Blash View Post
To me part of the problem is one of respect and consideration.
.....At least for the vast majority of us retail traders. $100 is right next to nothing in this business. Complete peanuts a drop in the bucket. ..
... Point is in this life if you'er generous you will attract generousness if you'er disrespectful and are looking for a free ride just wanting to take take take and not pay for what you are using its not healthy for the soul of a human being. .
..DbPhoenix I urge you to join futures.io (formerly BMT) as an Elite member for its paltry asking sum and witness freeing yourself in a small way from the fetters of this world.

Ron

I get email from Charge.Org all the time urges me to add my click for various causes. I costs me nothing to click for cause. But did I click on all of them? No. The point is I only click only when I want to even if it costs nothing.

 
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  #346 (permalink)
 cygnetnoir 
NYC NY/USA
 
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Blash View Post
Tells the seasoned that something seems fishy.

I've been running into @DbPhoenix on the internet for at least 15 years, and if memory of the usenet days serves, I'd say closer to 20. While I cannot remember if he has always been an explicit proponent of Wyckoff, I do recall that even in his days of using indicators he was still very much what I would consider to have been a "price action" trader. To me, that counts as "seasoned" far more than how long or how much one might have posted to one particular forum or blog.

One might look to Wyckoff, or instead to Livermore, or to William O'Neil, or Nicolas Darvas, or Stanley Kroll, or Victor Sperandeo, or to Linda Raschke, and so on. How long ago any of them were trading or writing about the markets matters only if one believes (as many apparently do) that the markets have fundamentally changed and that price, volume, supply, demand, and let me mention once again price itself has little or no informational value to one trading these markets. But whether the markets have changed at such a fundamental level is not a question for a thread about Wyckoff's methodology, but should have its own discussion elsewhere.

As far as I can tell, the OP is not trying to sell anyone anything. As to whether he trades or not, it matters not at all to me. He is, after all, offering Wyckoff's writings free of charge and sharing his own interpretation of those writings for all to read. It is up to me, as it is to each and every one coming across this thread to decide for him or herself whether reading Wyckoff at all is worth the effort, and if so, then for each to do his or her level best to come to one's own understanding of the text.

I have largely been an infrequent visitor here. There has not been much of interest to me here at futures.io (formerly BMT) (or at any trading forum, for that matter). Of course, there has been some, e.g. @DionysusToast and @FuturesTrader71. But by and large, like most of these forums, there just isn't much value being posted. But I will say this, @BigMike: Having @DbPhoenix's contributions here, especially the discussion of the original Wyckoff course, can only add value and, very likely, readership to your forum.

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  #347 (permalink)
 Tap In 
Bend, OR
 
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There was a guy who stopped posting a while ago who was one of the most prolific posters on futures.io (formerly BMT). His journal was over 1000 pages long. Every day he would post winning trade after winning trade, 30, 40, 50 ticks of profit at a time, often with entries timed perfectly. About every 10 pages he would post a 10 tick loser. He made a point of covering up his daily P&L and number of contracts traded and he never posted broker statements. He spoke with the utmost authority and often treated members with disrespect. Whenever his success was questioned he shot back with all kinds of indignation. And yet, he never got nearly the push back that this OP is getting.

If a person is talking theory I'll listen to them as long as it makes sense. I don't care if they're in sim, live or even trade at all. There might be an idea, a nugget that I can incorporated into my plan, or explore further. This is what idea sharing is about. In the journal mentioned earlier, though I knew the poster was full of shit it lead me to explore market profile and the opening range.

Where I have a problem is when a person claims to be making money or claims all kinds of winning trades without substantiation, because now we're talking fact. This is why I show my full daily charts with trade markers and post weekly and monthly broker statements. There are posters on futures.io (formerly BMT) right now who show nothing but winning trades with no substantiation.

I personally think the Db adds value to the site. He's respectful, eloquent and giving of his time. He's not claiming to be a great trader, claiming trades, or asking for money. I am free to take or leave anything he says. Some might have a big problem with the method he is discussing and question its effectiveness, but we're all big boys and girls. We can decide for ourselves what we take or leave.

 
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  #348 (permalink)
 PrymeTyme 
V/Austria
 
Experience: Master
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tststs

i guess , most people who fail and or put soo much effort in " deciphering" the markets and how to succesfully trade them,
want to make everyone else to belive that indeed , the markets are "rocket sience" just to keep their ego in play..

then one man comes arround and tells you "if you can draw a straight line" which btw. a kid is capable to do and hence "they" dont want to give itself the nakedness to break off and thus , bash and redicule

what a joke

 
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  #349 (permalink)
FilthyMcNasty
Cologne
 
 
Posts: 6 since Apr 2015
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I can just hope, that @DbPhoenix does not stop posting here.

If you just read the thread - or even a few of the gems posted here - then it should be obvious that this is REAL and a REAL help for people trying to find the way. REAL time trades are BS. Instead it is everyones responsibility to test the stuff he so steadily and eloquently presented over years and years.

On the other hand, except oft dragging the people to this forum, there is little business to make for the owner. No one is really interested in the indicators of the Elite section and also I guess that DBP is not interested in holding a webinar explaining that whatever software is essential for his trading - because he uses just his broker platform obviously...

But in general every owner of a platform like this should be happy to have contributors like DBP on board...!

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  #350 (permalink)
 BarfMcGee 
Nashville TN/ USA
 
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Considering the majority of traders lose it is no surprise to me that people gravitate towards this guy. He, in hindsight, is able to perfectly explain the market by simply drawing straight lines. It's just that simple. Of course, it's a terrible way to trade and there is an obvious reason why this guy doesn't post a single trade or even make a bull or a bear case. It's because he doesn't trade or not very well if he does.

Once you start to learn that trading is about embracing uncertainty and defining risks you will start to understand successful trading. It's not about having some perfect formula to decipher and "understand" markets. It's about being able to define a spot as a good trade and execute it from start to finish. This guy does none of that. DB post your trades for a week and maybe you would change some minds. Instead, you're like a religious figure with a mob of fervent and naive followers that want to be led to the holy land of perfect trading and totally knowledge of all market moves. It's a joke to anyone with a clue.

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  #351 (permalink)
FilthyMcNasty
Cologne
 
 
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BarfMcGee View Post
Once you start to learn that trading is about embracing uncertainty and defining risks you will start to understand successful trading. It's not about having some perfect formula to decipher and "understand" markets. It's about being able to define a spot as a good trade and execute it from start to finish. This guy does none of that.

It is really amazing that like on ET those people which do not have a clue about what DBP is really writing about are showing up again and again. The problem is if you read only a bit more then you will find all the topics you mentioned covered...speaking about uncertainty and the optimal spots and risk...

So maybe all those people should read a little more than the first or the last two posts...

It's quite simple but not easy...

Yet again I have to admire DBP for keeping up the motivation to take the time for explaining his stuff - and I hope he will in the future.


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  #352 (permalink)
 BarfMcGee 
Nashville TN/ USA
 
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FilthyMcNasty View Post
It is really amazing that like on ET those people which do not have a clue about what DBP is really writing about are showing up again and again. The problem is if you read only a bit more then you will find all the topics you mentioned covered...speaking about uncertainty and the optimal spots and risk...

So maybe all those people should read a little more than the first or the last two posts...

It's quite simple but not easy...

Yet again I have to admire DBP for keeping up the motivation to take the time for explaining his stuff - and I hope he will in the future.

Considering a large amount of what he posts is in hindsight and with no blemishes, mistakes, and missed opportunities I would say no he shows nothing about the uncertainty of trading. Instead, it's all beautiful hindsight charts that suck in unwitting noobs. The first question you should ask yourself is does his method ever not work? If the answer is no, the person you are talking to is full of BS.

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  #353 (permalink)
FilthyMcNasty
Cologne
 
 
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I agree with you that one should be very suspicious in this business.

But if you read his (free) Ebook and a bit more of his posts, then you will understand I believe that DBP is not the person which fits in the typical snakeoil vendor pattern...

He himself claims that there are not too many people which are successfully applying his method, but I believe that one could if one just does the work...

 
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  #354 (permalink)
Stewie
Canada
 
 
Posts: 2 since Jun 2015
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FilthyMcNasty View Post
He himself claims that there are not too many people which are successfully applying his method, but I believe that one could if one just does the work...

I feel that there are actually two things going on. First he has the roots of Wyckoff and trading price by way of behavior, and this I like. But then he has his SLA system which in some ways completely throws all this to the wayside. It relies waiting for a 1 min RET, and when this presents itself, the best opportunity is usually gone. Today is a fine example where price bounced off the overnight low, and by the time the first RET showed up, the move was done.

If you are trading price, and watching it move, you simply cannot be waiting for 1 minute bars to form a certain way. He has said many times that you have to watch price move. So in an effort to make trading simple by way of SLA, he has actually drastically lowered the win rate in my opinion, and a low win rate is actually quite difficult for a new trader to accept. SLA only works very well on a strongly trending day and how often do we get this? The stat that markets trend 30% of the time and range 70% of the time sounds about right.

If you are following behavior, and you have areas outlined where you will look for a trade, and you see a rejection, the best place to take it isn't after the first RET if that RET doesn't happen within a few points of the level you were watching and if that RET isn't too deep.

 
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  #355 (permalink)
offx1degree
NY
 
 
Posts: 2 since Oct 2009
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When it came to writing in space, NASA began to r and d the space pen. When research skyrocketed, they abandoned the project and went back to using pencils....

Don't understand something, over complicate it... I have made a career out of trading supply-demand imbalances. Not much more complicated than what you see being taught here. This is a methodology, a strategy. No where is there a claim for anything, but. Don't like it, move on. But until you have read the source material and have done the work, your opinion is nothing more than a b.s. opinion.

Timothy Morge has fifth graders trading using one line on chart, can't get much simpler. The results are better than 99% of those on this forum.

If this is not your cup of tea, not complicated enough, move along, there is a pricey piece of software or fancy new indicator that will tell you what price is doing....

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  #356 (permalink)
Surprise
Amman/Jordan
 
 
Posts: 39 since May 2013
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If his method is so sound so whats stopping him from posting examples in real-time - live calls - ? Thats the best way to teach a method . Highlighting potential setups from the past with the benefit of hindsight is useless . Sorry .

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  #357 (permalink)
Surprise
Amman/Jordan
 
 
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Tap In View Post

I personally think the Db adds value to the site. He's respectful, eloquent and giving of his time. He's not claiming to be a great trader, claiming trades, or asking for money. .

Who told you that ? He is a vendor and his work isnt all for free - nothing wrong with that - .

 
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  #358 (permalink)
mosley
Phoenix, AZ
 
 
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FilthyMcNasty View Post
...but I believe that one could if one just does the work...

That's so cool that you believe...

What would be even cooler is if DB said, "Hey everyone, since I nail the market each and every day (just like all my hindsight charts) and am so fabulously wealthy from doing this day in and day out... month after month... year after year... I'm going to put this whole guru thing to rest by posting all my realtime trades for just 1 week. I know over all those years I never did that at Traders Laboratory, same at Elite Trader, but I'm finally going to show how it's done in realtime here at futures.io (formerly BMT). That way you will see it in action, and afterwards we can return to the endless, hindsight theoretical discussions that you all love so much."

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  #359 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
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Surprise View Post
Who told you that ? He is a vendor and his work isnt all for free - nothing wrong with that - .

Please provide some details on him being a vendor. My understanding was that he was not a vendor, if that is not true then I need some proof.

Mike

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  #360 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
Site Administrator
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FilthyMcNasty View Post
If you just read the thread - or even a few of the gems posted here - then it should be obvious that this is REAL and a REAL help for people trying to find the way. REAL time trades are BS.

Real time trades are BS? Wow. I guess actually trading cash and proving your edge publicly is also bullshit. What color is the sky in this alternative universe you live in??

All of his posts are hindsight, or just quotes from old authors. It's basically all theoretical trading. Anyone that actually has been in the business long enough and is an actual real cash trader that depends on his trading for his primary income can tell you instantly that what he is posting is worthless. Worse than worthless, because he attracts newbies that don't know any better to following his perfectly marked up hindsight charts and wasting their time studying a ridiculous methodology.

The fact he doesn't post any trades should tell you everything you need to know. He may be a real nice person, and that's great. But all evidence demonstrates he is NOT a trader.

Mike

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  #361 (permalink)
 DbPhoenix 
Phoenix AZ
 
 
Posts: 470 since Dec 2012


Big Mike View Post
Please provide some details on him being a vendor. My understanding was that he was not a vendor, if that is not true then I need some proof.

Mike

You may want to review our PM exchange on July 14.

 
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  #362 (permalink)
Surprise
Amman/Jordan
 
 
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Big Mike View Post
Please provide some details on him being a vendor. My understanding was that he was not a vendor, if that is not true then I need some proof.

Mike

Hi Mike , he is a vendor at T2W and here's a quote from him there :


dbphoenix View Post
While I appreciate the accolade, it is at least partly undeserved as the book in its entirety is not free, but I don't want to go on with that as we're getting into advertising. The precis that I uploaded to post #1, however, ought to provide enough information for someone who's interested in trading price to get started. Those who take to it easily may well need nothing else, except possibly the Developing A Plan pdf which I've also posted (there's also Tim's work on trading plans; as I remember, we each began these efforts at about the same time, and there are a lot of similarities). Unfortunately, few want to go through the plan process until they've lost considerable amounts of money. But that's always been the case. Aside from that, God knows I've made plenty of posts over the years. At this point, it's a way of paying it forward.

.


 
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 Big Mike 
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DbPhoenix View Post
You may want to review our PM exchange on July 14.

I just did. My understanding at the time was you weren't a vendor. You said you had a book, but my understanding was you posted that book here and it was free?

It seems I misinterpreted what you were saying, and now that I've re-read that exchange it seems that you are in fact a vendor marketing a product/service on futures.io (formerly BMT). And since what you are selling is directly related to everything you've been writing about, you are violating our no self-promotion policy in a huge way. Something I told you clearly we don't allow.

All this time I thought you were a nice guy but just not a trader. Now I realize you are a vendor and your purpose here is to get more business. It makes sense now on why you would never post anything of actual use or anything that would definitively show your skills.

In other words, just another typical vendor. And as such, you are now banned. You are not welcome back under any circumstance.

A note to the loyal followers of @DbPhoenix : Since most of you showed up only after he did, I hope you are in fact real people and not accounts created by him to promote his angle and popularity. Unfortunately, many (many!) vendors in the past take that approach, so it's always a concern. futures.io (formerly BMT) is a drama free zone. This is not ET. If you want to create drama over my decision to ban db, be forewarned that you'll be banned as well.

Mike

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