I've heard many answers such as .. You have to make your own experience , you have to study hard , you have to attend many webinars , conferences , courses, and you have to build your own strategy does not help the winning system of another trader ... etc, etc, etc, etc. .
Mmm, I do not believe that .. I think the most accurate way is to find a system that works and make it work the right way system , I do not seek the Holy grail but if I seek the Holy Man ... one who knows the way , who can be a guide because he knows these roads .. one profitable trader ...
But .. Where do I find them? Where to find that person and he want to share and teach his trading methodology ? If more than 80 % of traders are losers... And most questions where to turn when you get the same answers and perhaps many of them have failed to be successful ...
Yeah, I know , it's the looking of all newbie.. I have not lost hope .. be profitable is a long way from waste of time, money and energy .. yet few very few of us make it, among the thousands .. after following all the advice ..
I do not know if this post is a reflection or a hope that the Christmas miracle happens ..
Where to turn? where to study? Which trading academy ?
There is a Holy Man here?
Merry Christmas to all!!
Sony108
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I sincerely hope you find your "Holy Man", but I have to tell you, finding a mentor that knows what he's talking about is just one step in the process. Unfortunately there is only one path and its a long and difficult one. Everyone here who has "made it" has been through a very long and difficult process. There will be times that you want to give up, you have to just keep going. In addition to the method there is the psychology. You can read books and learn from others but at the end of the day you aren't trading against anyone in the market except yourself. The best advice I can give anyone is to stay in the sim as long as you can before you risk your capital. Because once it's gone it's gone. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible, it certainly is possible but I just felt like setting expectations.
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Well said.. I agree with all of this. And let me add that even if you find a mentor, there is a great chance you will not be able to follow their method because you have not tested it enough(lack of trust in it) or it does not fit your persona..
Unless you have about 3 years to pursue this full time while having no income, it is my opinion you are destined to fail. Even then, you will have to dig very very deep within your soul to make it in this business.
Follow @WolfieWolf advice. Stay in SIM until you can double an account by risking no more than 2% on any trade. When you can do that twice.. you are ready to tackle live trading and all of the challenges it brings..
All the best to you in trading,
Wolf
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I'm sorry, but there probably isn't a Holy Man here, or anywhere.
However, there are many successful traders in the world; some post on this forum. Some suggestions:
1. Get an elite membership on futures.io (formerly BMT). If you can trade, you can pay the 100 bucks. It really is worth it.
2. Browse around the site and sample some of the threads here. Check out the different methods and look for something that clicks for you.
3. If you haven't already, get a trading platform (many are free on a trial basis) that lets you make simulated trades. Try some of the methods you like in simulated trading.
4. Unfortunately, simulation only goes so far. Until you put yourself at risk with real money, you don't face the psychological pressures of real trading. The problems that traders have is not necessarily that their methods are no good (there are many, many workable methods), but that risk of loss or potential for profit scramble their brains and make them forget all their methodology. Get a method that makes sense to you, and then find out about how you respond to profit and loss. Improve on both the method and your psychological responses.
5. Repeat until it works.
6. However, do not risk money you can't easily afford to lose. Because you will lose some even if you're good. If you can't afford losses, stay with sim even though it is only a limited version of trading until you can accumulate the money to afford very modest risk, and then limit risk to what you can afford.
7. @Big Mike is always suggesting people open a trading journal here to document their trades and to be accountable. This is one way to face both the method issues and the psychological issues without going broke. You may (or may not) want to try it. But think about it.
8. Work, risk and loss (as well as gain) are a part of the process. Do not imagine that a trading academy or web site or super-trader or guru will do it for you. (Question: if someone had a sure-thing way to make millions of dollars in the market, why would they bother to sell it to anyone, instead of just using it themselves?)
OK, this got to be a long response, and I don't want to sound like I know what you should do, because, of course, I don't. But look at some of these things and do what makes the most sense to you.
Good luck.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
The following 5 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
Nope...no holy man here or anywhere....mentors are good but eventually you need to internalize a method for yourself.
My suggestion....go to forex as your first trading instrument. Watch price move around for a course of months. Put on a couple of trades using the smallest size possible. See what happens. Figure out how you could have executed and managed the trade differently. Try it again.
You may consider trading using multi day strategies as opposed to day trading. You'll probably last longer.
Write everything down. Get in the habit of keeping detailed stats about all aspects of our trades. This will be your saving grace when you experience draw down.
Most importantly, don't quit your day job....now or perhaps ever. Don't trade the rent money.
PM me if you want more details.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, Leonardo da Vinci
Most people chose unhappiness over uncertainty, Tim Ferris
The following 4 users say Thank You to PandaWarrior for this post:
I've heard many answers such as .. You have to make your own experience , you have to study hard , you have to attend many webinars , conferences , courses, and you have to build your own strategy does not help the winning system of another trader ... etc, etc, etc, etc. .
Mmm, I do not believe that .. "
If you do not believe that...the market will make you believe that. Of course, the market charges a premium for the lessons.
However, if you can achieve the first paragraph you wrote, you already found your holy grail.
mykee
The following 2 users say Thank You to mykee for this post:
I'm really very grateful and happy for your feedback.
watching the time you took to answer a newbie like me, for the sole purpose of sharing their experiences and help. it makes me happy that there are people with the heart to help others .
Thank you very much !
Wolfiewolf : True, finding a MENTOR is an important first step , well knowing that methodology applied and adapted to the own trading may have a good chance of success, of course with thousands of hours of practice and study ... and I agree it is a very hard the trading road .
I'll take your advice very seriously , especially the stay in SIM .. Thanks Alot !
supermht : thanks for your advice and yes ... very many hours at the monitor.
Traderwolf: Thank you for every one of your tips, I understand what you tell me, about mentor and to follow their way of trading. I´ll follow in SIM risking 2% of each trade. I will follow to @WolfieWolf.
Thank you very much.
bobwest: ok, I'll do what you advise to me, I will become a elite membership, but how to know which methods are good?
About SIM I agree with you, it helps a lot practice in SIM, but it has nothing to do with the real trading is the day and night. I am aware I'll have to lose money to be profitable .. Ill try that money I'll have to lose is the lowest possible.
Thank you so much for your time and help.
PandaWarrior: Thx! I have very little experience but it was about 3 years in SIM in forex, could never find the way .. I was aimless and alone. I have made some technical analysis courses and have even been in a trading room( YM Trading) - .
I made the mistake of which you me mention, never wrote my trading, this not happen again.
Never do trading with the money I need, and would not let me work to do trading .. My head could not bear the pressure of having to trading for a living.
Thank you very much for volunteering for PM for details.
I am very grateful.
mykee: thanks for replying the post. I know I have to study a lot, but me alone, would be very difficult, harder than it already is.
Thx!
Again, I want to thank to every one of you, and I hope someday to return such generosity.
keep in touch!
Sony108
PD: Sorry my drafting errors, my English is not very good.
The following user says Thank You to Sony108 for this post:
loco es muy simple, compra bajo y vende alto
o vende alto y compra bajo
como? mira un gráfico y date cuenta solo
atención :eso es muy difícil de hacerlo en forma consistente a largo plazo
donde esta la clave? en vos, adentro tuyo
maradona, messi ....
1)pensá muy bien para que querés hacer esto? tendrás que poner toda la carne en el asador para lograrlo, si te dicen que tardarás en lograrlo x años, que valor de x no aceptarás?
2)la única manera de no cometer los mismos errores que los demás es tratar de aprender de la experiencia ajena
si miras como un coche atropella a alguien tal vez veas que hay peligro en cruzar la calle, lee los journals de la gente de aca
lamentablemente me temo, que como todos los demas, vas a decir, dejame a mi que yo lo voy a sacar.
lee durante 6 meses estos threads de bm y despues decidi si vale la pena
empeza por aquí
All the price action in the world, all the indicators in the world, all the money management and technical analysis in the world is great.... but at the end of the day, what you are really doing is just trying to trade better …
futures.io (formerly BMT) now has over 4,000 registered members. In only 9 months since inception, we've amassed about 500 new traders a month into our community. And we're growing more rapidly every day, meaning we grew …
You guys know how much I love the futures.io (formerly BMT) CollectiveMA and the futures.io (formerly BMT) Envelope Expansion Fib Bands. I think they are great tools.
But, I also think they are not necessary to be successful. In fact, I don't think …
english version
man it is simple, buy low and sell high
or sell high and buy low
how? watch a chart and find it yourself
atention :this is very difficult to do it in a consistency way for long term
where is the key?inside you
maradona, messi ....
1)thing very well why do you want to do this? y must to do almost everything to get it, if somebody tell you that you neex X yeras to get it, what value of X do you not accept it?
2)the only way to no repeat the same mistakes that others is try to learn form the others experiencies
if you see a person get dead for a car maybe you learn that it is a dangerous to cross the street
read the journals from people here
i ma afraid ,as everyone else did, you tell, let me , i can and i will get it
read for 6 month the threads from bmt and after that , decide if it have value to go for it
I love Tastytrade too, but you would have to be a fool to trade like Tom Sosnoff, especially with respect to futures. He is still short some ES that he started selling in the 1600's and has added more to raise his average sale price to around 1720. A normal trader, who is not worth hundreds of millions like Tom, can not trade this way.
Furthermore, he has mentored his daughter for a year and she is only break-even. Tom takes contrarian investing too ridiculous extremes. (In fact, every mentoring segment on Tastytrade has ended in failure so far - Amanda, the two 22 year olds, X-trader, etc..)
Tastytrade is great entertainment and you will learn a lot about options, but Tom and Tony are not great traders. They have recently outlined some good strategies, like the Big Dawg Butterflies, that they have begun to trade. These are excellent. But Dan Sheridan, and others, have been doing this type of trade for 10 years.
A newer option trader would be better off finding a couple of Dan Sheridan free videos on the CBOE website and implementing one of his strategies on one index or ETF and learn how to trade it, every month or every week.
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I am aware Tom is much the bearish trader and takes contrarian investing to extremes. But he has much the staying power unlike many of us traders when it comes to trading the futures not just 'cause of his net worth but because he hedges his loosing positions. I recall he had mentioned he'd covered much if not all of his 1600 ES positions and like the contrarian he is, continues to bet the market will go down. Though I am not in total disagreement that Tom's trading style is for everyone however, I do have to point out neither Tom nor Tony have ever suggested anyone should mirror them for what they do.
Then again I must confess I haven't been as much of an avid listener of the tastytrade show as I used to be being only because I feel I've outgrown the information on trading options from tastytrade. For futures, which is what I trade mostly these days, I follow the Shadowtrader with Brad and Peter. It's yet another prespective and style of trading. As a side note, before I ever got turned on to tastytrade I too was a big fan of Tom Sheridan. He's very big on trading big ratio butterflies and such but I just take more to trading condors and vertical spreads and jadelizards (Liz & Jenny) when it comes to options.
Tom and Tony may not be the greatest traders but they sure helped turn my P&L around from a negative to a nice positive in a span of two trading seasons. All I am saying is that you just have to keep an open mind and take with you what works for you. All these shows and mentors have their pros and cons. I think tastytrade is a great starter for any novice trader even though, Tom's daughter and Amanda and other novice segments of the tatrytrade show haven't quite been the success story that other segments have turned to be.
I'm all for free videos and mentoring and such but it's limited stuff. I started that way too! It's all meant to rope you in for many $$$. As a matter of fact, if freebies were meant to be that much informative, no mentor could turn to profit.
The following 2 users say Thank You to tlopez51 for this post:
You are the holy man. Only you can design your destiny. You only need to make one choice and that is - Are you willing to give 100% of yourself to understanding the markets? If so, then inevitably everything will fall into place naturally given time.
R.I.P. Joseph Bach (Itchymoku), 1987-2018.
Please visit this thread for more information.
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There is enough good info in the free videos to develop a reasonable trading plan without paying for mentoring. I don't use Sheridan Mentoring, I've only looked at his free videos.
I like the Shadow traders too.
Tom is currently short ES from the low 1700s. Taking hundreds of points in heat in futures is ridiculous. Hoping it will come back is not a trading plan.
Don't get me wrong, I love the entertainment of Tastytrade and they do have some good educational content. I've been watching everyday since they started. I just don't think they are good mentors. None of their mentoring students have been profitable yet. That is a fact.
The following 2 users say Thank You to gfmatt for this post:
Yeap that's true and quite agree but not so certain every novice trader will be able to conclude the same at first. I know that for me no matter how good the videos were they always left many unanswered questions. That's how one can easily begin to get into trouble.
I know tastytrade is not the all be all but Tom's strategy that the ES is toppy and seeing 1700 again is not too far fetched. Many are predicting we'll likely see 1500 before we get to 1900. Don't get me wrong but as for me I am more bullish than bearish but the highly cautious bull and just the same hedged short on the market just a few points below where we are at.
Also, a while back the tastytrade show had a segment where they would mentor Chicago's finest. If you recall, the cops weren't that shabby and often would do quite well. Not sure why that was but then much harder for the Amanda's to do as well. Perhaps they need to bring back the "Trading with Cops" segment.
The following user says Thank You to tlopez51 for this post:
I think a Holy man may accelerate your learning process but not turn you into a profitable trader through instruction alone.
It's a cliche now but I really feel trading is more of a sport or an art then a scientific endeavor. You can teach someone the rules of a game, but you can't teach them how to be good at it. Nor can you be taught to be a great artist, no matter how many books you read or seminars you attend
The following user says Thank You to Risk Surfer for this post:
I disagree. The problem with position trading is that you don't get a lot of looks at the ball. The other stuff you said was good, though.
I am going to come back to this and write you up a little guide. Basically you are going to need structured practice that creates a feedback loop of improvement along with monitoring your metrics. If you come at this from a mystical perspective you will fail.
The following user says Thank You to ValueFocused for this post:
... one who knows the way , who can be a guide because he knows these roads .. one profitable trader ...
