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Long and Short Positions at the Same Time?


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Long and Short Positions at the Same Time?

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  #1 (permalink)
Nashville, Tennessee
 
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tderrick's Avatar
 
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I can't believe I haven't run across this idea until now. It works in Market Replay, but I'm not sure
if the exchanges would allow it....

Is it possible to have an overall long or short position going, but then scalp along the way either long
OR short?

I love to trade ping pong edges in tight consolidation. However, the macro trend may still be valid.

So I guess the question is - Can you have a long contract going then short a scalp along the way,
of course with a separate contract?

How long have I been trading ?

NQ in particular ..

AMP / CQG

grazie


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


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  #3 (permalink)
virginia
 
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open a sub account then you can put on an opposite trade.

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  #4 (permalink)
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Could try futures pairs trades, or with options can be done with the same underlying.

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  #5 (permalink)
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Hi tderrick

I think this is a duplicate thread.

See below links





As you can see one option I mention (and others) is that NT lets you SIMULATE being short and long at the same time (whether you are trading Live or SIM) without needing to bother your broker. So you could trying Simming this strategy first in NT Simulation mode.

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  #6 (permalink)
Cyprus
 
 
Posts: 68 since Jul 2013


tderrick View Post
So I guess the question is - Can you have a long contract going then short a scalp along the way, of course with a separate contract?e

Wash trades is considered in the US criminal activity.

"No person shall place or accept buy and sell orders in the same product and expiration month, and, for a put or call option, the same strike price, where the person knows or reasonably should know that the purpose of the orders is to avoid taking a bona fide market position exposed to market risk (transactions commonly known or referred to as wash trades or wash sales). Buy and sell orders for different accounts with common beneficial ownership that are entered with the intent to negate market risk or price competition shall also be deemed to violate the prohibition on wash trades. Additionally, no person shall knowingly execute or accommodate the execution of such orders by direct or indirect means."

https://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/market-regulation/CMEGroup_RA1308-5.html

Exceptions are not clear.

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  #7 (permalink)
Nashville, Tennessee
 
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steve2222 View Post
Hi tderrick

I think this is a duplicate thread.

See below links





As you can see one option I mention (and others) is that NT lets you SIMULATE being short and long at the same time (whether you are trading Live or SIM) without needing to bother your broker. So you could trying Simming this strategy first in NT Simulation mode.


grazie,

I looked at those threads and it appeared the concept there was to take long term positions opposite
each other with different brokers. I would assume to bail on the one that fails.


My question is - one broker, with two contracts having opposite positions at some point.

An example being - Long over all for a daily swing in markets throughout the day, but then
coming across a consolidation area that can be both bought and sold at the range edges until
the direction is resolved.

As I stated, this is allowed within Market Replay / Ninja.

I suppose I will just try it tomorrow. I will know quickly if I get that lovely NT rejection crash sound.

I mean, they are separate contracts. Why would you not be able to have one contract to buy and one to sell?

We shall see ...


AJ
Nashville, Tennessee


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  #8 (permalink)
New Zealand
 
 
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I don't think this is legal in the US.

It is commonly called a hedge position. Where you have a long and short position in the same market at the same time.

These were common in the Forex cash market a few years ago and then they too were regulated out.

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  #9 (permalink)
Nashville, Tennessee
 
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kamicrazy View Post
I don't think this is legal in the US.

It is commonly called a hedge position. Where you have a long and short position in the same market at the same time.

These were common in the Forex cash market a few years ago and then they too were regulated out.


yes... I have seem this mentioned on futures.io (formerly BMT) before.

As I would not be using the concept as a hedge situation, just trading a separate time frame / situation, I
could see how larger players could use the opportunity to manipulate the market.


AJ
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  #10 (permalink)
New Zealand
 
 
Posts: 72 since Jun 2011
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It doesn't matter if you intend to trade different time frames.

If you have an overall long position you intend to hold overnight and then enter into an intraday short position you will simply exit your long.

This is due to regulations surrounding the handling of contracts to prevent a situation where you hold both positions.

You need two accounts to do this and as someone has already posted it could still be illegal.

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