Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros - futures io
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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros


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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros

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  #301 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
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@Solidus

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf
https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx
https://www.tradovate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Tradovate%20All%20In%20Rates%20043019.pdf

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  #302 (permalink)
 mediaboy 
Durham, NC
 
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techa View Post
Had to contact TD Ameritrade today. It's under /MES:XCME. made my first profitable trade (on paper)

Trade it live ... why paper trade? Thats for learning your platform.. thats about all it can do for you.
Finally we have a small product - get some skin in the game ASAP

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  #303 (permalink)
 barabas 
Chicago IL USA
 
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mediaboy View Post
Trade it live ... why paper trade? Thats for learning your platform.. thats about all it can do for you.
Finally we have a small product - get some skin in the game ASAP

Finally small accounts can sizes up and make better trades

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  #304 (permalink)
 AlexSobol 
Sumy, Ukraine
 
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Commission has really big impact if you try to scalp. At least it's a great product for learning purpose.

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  #305 (permalink)
 techa 
Wilmington, NC
 
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mediaboy View Post
Trade it live ... why paper trade? Thats for learning your platform.. thats about all it can do for you.
Finally we have a small product - get some skin in the game ASAP

Learning Infinity Futures platform the next two weeks. Believe me, as soon as I get a hang of their platform, I plan on it!

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  #306 (permalink)
ranger64
Bangkok, Thailand
 
 
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AMP have already adjusted their cost calculator. The 15 cents ALL IN Micro Emini commission for accounts above 25K is not available anymore. Now 39 cents for small accounts and 37 cents for >10K accounts (SC/CQG).

https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

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  #307 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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This may cure my taking loss problems watching $-20 and mentally translate it into-$200 is easier to take

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  #308 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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SMCJB View Post
paying about $1 per round turn to trade a full size, which is just 0.08 ticks!
[


Now that we use clearing for Spot FX, I would tell you that .8 is achievable on a spread. The Micros have turned out to be great for stock indices, despite my initial concerns. However, the spot FX for micro contracts on FX is better from what I see on execution.

Matt Z
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  #309 (permalink)
ranger64
Bangkok, Thailand
 
 
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apac View Post
That also

But I don't trust anything I read on the AMP commission calculator webpage. They have numerous quoted commissions that are 100 times lower than actual. All due to what appears to be incredibly sloppy calculation work, and zero attention to detail.

I started trading the MYM live Friday. Just checked my daily statement, Amp total commissions are 0.39 per side, exactly as stated in their cost calculator.

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  #310 (permalink)
 Grantx 
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Reading UK
 
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Interactive Brokers all in round trip commissions for the new E-mini futures contracts is 0.94 USD.

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  #311 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
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apac View Post
That also

But I don't trust anything I read on the AMP commission calculator webpage. They have numerous quoted commissions that are 100 times lower than actual. All due to what appears to be incredibly sloppy calculation work, and zero attention to detail.

Donít know about your experience but my NQ round trip is 3.6 as listed

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  #312 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
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Can someone confirm if the MYM requires CBOT or CME market data ? Because I see conflicting information online from broker webpages

Do you know to which exchange division the MYM belongs to ? cause Iíll soon get a CBOT exchange seat for IDEM (B-4) division to trade the YM, so wondering if itís going to include the Emicro brother

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  #313 (permalink)
 barabas 
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NapoleonDynamite View Post
Can someone confirm if the MYM requires CBOT or CME market data ? Because I see conflicting information online from broker webpages

Do you know to which exchange division the MYM belongs to ? cause Iíll soon get a CBOT exchange seat for IDEM (B-4) division to trade the YM, so wondering if itís going to include the Emicro brother

https://www.cmegroup.com/cme-group-futures-exchange/micro-futures.html


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  #314 (permalink)
ranger64
Bangkok, Thailand
 
 
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CME Market Data
Bundle- ALL CME Markets
$15.00 (non-pro)

CME/Globex
$5.00 (non-pro)

CBOT/Globex
$5.00 (non-pro)

NYMEX/Globex
$5.00 (non-pro)

COMEX/Globex
$5.00 (non-pro)

I only subscribe to CME and CBOT top of the book level 1 data, which is 1 USD monthly each. YM and MYM are CBOT, so either 1 USD level 1 or 5 USD with market depth. Are you buying or leasing a seat? How much are you paying?

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  #315 (permalink)
Kalisto
Geneva, Switzerland
 
 
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Buying, this division happens to be dirt cheap
https://www.cmegroup.com/company/membership/membership-and-lease-pricing.html

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  #316 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
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Hey, thought I'd post this here... I trade the currency Micros and was feeling rather jealous about the (relatively speaking) low round turn costs of the new Micros, but was pleasantly surprised to see my statement today... enough that I had to investigate, and found this:



AMP has dropped their pricing significantly; previously it was all-in $2.06/RT for currencies... now with fees and such they are about $0.66/RT all in. Cool

Just FYI. OK back to your regularly scheduled Micros programming.

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  #317 (permalink)
 tpredictor 
North Carolina
 
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Can you explain ? Which membership option is it?


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  #318 (permalink)
 techa 
Wilmington, NC
 
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Rrrracer View Post
Hey, thought I'd post this here... I trade the currency Micros and was feeling rather jealous about the (relatively speaking) low round turn costs of the new Micros, but was pleasantly surprised to see my statement today... enough that I had to investigate, and found this:



AMP has dropped their pricing significantly; previously it was all-in $2.06/RT for currencies... now with fees and such they are about $0.66/RT all in. Cool

Just FYI. OK back to your regularly scheduled Micros programming.

I just called Infinity Futures yesterday and was a bit shocked to hear the all in R/T for micro was $2.44. I'm going to be checking with Ninja Trader this morning, but I think theirs is $1.22.

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  #319 (permalink)
 techa 
Wilmington, NC
 
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Rrrracer View Post
Hey, thought I'd post this here... I trade the currency Micros and was feeling rather jealous about the (relatively speaking) low round turn costs of the new Micros, but was pleasantly surprised to see my statement today... enough that I had to investigate, and found this:



AMP has dropped their pricing significantly; previously it was all-in $2.06/RT for currencies... now with fees and such they are about $0.66/RT all in. Cool

Just FYI. OK back to your regularly scheduled Micros programming.

I got scare off of considering AMP because a couple of the reviews stated issues with getting their money withdrawn.

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  #320 (permalink)
 Rrrracer 
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techa View Post
I got scare off of considering AMP because a couple of the reviews stated issues with getting their money withdrawn.


I hear ya. Unfortunately I've never been in a position to withdraw money LOL... when that time finally comes I will move on and support a broker who supports FIO.

Sorry for the derail guys.

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  #321 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
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I tried MES at IB today

0.47 per side

..........
peace, love and joy to you
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  #322 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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New poll:

Trading the new E-micro's [which product(s) and why]

Total votes: 1405
 


Please vote & discuss.

Mike

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  #323 (permalink)
 Big Mike 
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Tip


I have updated the title of this thread to better reflect its content, given the launch of the CME Group's E-Micro products.




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  #324 (permalink)
 AlexSobol 
Sumy, Ukraine
 
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I'm not a fan of sim trading. It's doesn't give you feeling of losing/gaining money. I start trading MES because I don't feel comfortable with runners. Instead of making 3-4 ticks I wanna make 3-4 points. Psychology is not so easy.

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  #325 (permalink)
 loantelligence 
Syracuse, NY
 
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.47 per side......what is the total cost from the Broker....round turn....1.00, 2.00, 3.00??

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  #326 (permalink)
 Grantx 
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Phillip Capital:



*CQG cost is for the SierraChart Data version. There is a minimum of $10 per month that pays for the first 100 sides. After that, it is .10 per side.

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  #327 (permalink)
robz
Vilnius, Lithuania
 
 
Posts: 5 since Apr 2019
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Hi,

I noticed that daily volume on let's say MES (Micro e-mini S&P 500 futures) is almost 10 times higher than the open interest of the same future. Are you using these for day-trading or just warming up before building positions?

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  #328 (permalink)
Jason Berry
Split + Croatia
 
 
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I'm using it as a hedging instrument when the SnP is too big. It's a way to get a more precise hedge. It might be pedantic, too precise, as in the imprecise hedge is relatively small but that's how I have been using them.

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  #329 (permalink)
g0trade
charlotte, nc
 
 
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Using MES for scalping and adjusting deltas on my position as the market moves. Easy to do and less hedge cost.

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  #330 (permalink)
roio
Calumet
 
 
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I love it after blowing a few accounts over the years 5000 aand 2500 in ES. I can now use larger stops let my entries play out. I have not placed a option trade in two weeks, no more time decay. My goal is only 50 - 100 dollars a day what i need to replace my salary. With the recent volatility I getting that using one mes contact easily.

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  #331 (permalink)
 ramado 
Sao Paulo, Brazil
 
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Hey Big Mike,

Thanks for this poll.

There is one additional question that I believe would be interesting to see in a future related poll.

"Are you trading the new Micro E-mini in place of the regular E-mini?"

There may be traders who are trading both the Micro and the Minis. And traders who are trading the Micros only.

In my case, I migrated to the micros, which give me a lot more flexibility in position sizing, and a more refined risk management.

Thanks,
Rogerio



Big Mike View Post
New poll:



Please vote & discuss.

Mike


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  #332 (permalink)
 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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As a test I traded MES today with IB.
Spread and liquidity seems to be OK.

21 trades. Commission 19.74. Round trip commission per trade 0.94.

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  #333 (permalink)
 techa 
Wilmington, NC
 
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roio View Post
I love it after blowing a few accounts over the years 5000 aand 2500 in ES. I can now use larger stops let my entries play out. I have not placed a option trade in two weeks, no more time decay. My goal is only 50 - 100 dollars a day what i need to replace my salary. With the recent volatility I getting that using one mes contact easily.

Time decay was killing me in options too. I switched to futures on paper a few months ago and made my first live trades today. I'm trying to take it slow with one contract at a time as well to get my feet wet and build my confidence. Good luck!

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  #334 (permalink)
 Rural WA State 
Walla Walla
 
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Micro futures have not only allowed me to be able to trade more than one contract at a time(and make more money), but it also saved my bacon yesterday when Prez Trump made his tweet about not putting a tariff on autos. I was short an E-micro and when it started shooting up, my computer decided to lock up. So, by the time I got to my second computer and got to a page I could cover my short, I was down $100. If I had been trading an E-mini, it would have been $1,000! Yes, I was being careless by not having a closer stop loss, but I was testing new routines and just got preoccupied.

Anyway, I just love these Micro Index Futures. I can hold a position much longer without feeling the severe pain I had trading E mini's. This allows my position more time to work and so far I've done better by having this option. Plus as another person said, Sim trading just doesn't have the same feel as real money.

So now I trade Micro futures every day and make or lose $20-30 over 4-6 hours and have a blast. As such, it now falls under entertainment rather than high pressure. Heck a fancy movie can cost this much and don't even talk about going out to eat. Plus I learn a lot and end up getting great ideas. And if I want, by buying more contracts, I can "graduate" to the E-mini level without having to go there.

I predict Micro Index Futures, on a volume basis, will eventually exceed that of the Mini Index Futures. This will generate a lot of nice commissions for the brokers, and isn't that why they are doing this? So, a win-win. Yee-haw!

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  #335 (permalink)
johnsou
lexington ky
 
 
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DO you know what the margins are for IB? I couldn't find on there site.

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  #336 (permalink)
Schultz15
Los Angeles California USA
 
 
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Opened an account with Tradestation this week. They are offering .50 commission on the micro minis. Pretty competitive I thought considering that includes no platform fee and free market data.

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  #337 (permalink)
 Pa Dax 
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Netherlands
 
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johnsou View Post
DO you know what the margins are for IB? I couldn't find on there site.

.47 all in one way....

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  #338 (permalink)
 Skid 
Hammond LA
 
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Does anyone know if you can trade right from the charts with the E-micros on Ninja Trader yet?

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  #339 (permalink)
 tradergino 
Chicago, IL
 
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You mean using Chart Trader? I don't see why not. Works with Market Replay. Setting up live account with Ninja right now.

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  #340 (permalink)
 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
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Does anyone know if you can trade right from the charts with the E-micros on Ninja Trader yet?

Yes, micros and any instrument can be traded from NinjaTrader Chart Trader.

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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  #341 (permalink)
 Skid 
Hammond LA
 
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NinjaTrader View Post
Yes, micros and any instrument can be traded from NinjaTrader Chart Trader.

Looks like I'll be opening up another account with you guys soon.

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  #342 (permalink)
 aquarian1 
Point Roberts, WA, USA
 
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johnsou View Post
DO you know what the margins are for IB? I couldn't find on there site.

two ways
1. right click on the symbol (MES) and select contract info, details

https://contract.ibkr.info/v3.10/index.php?action=CONTRACT_DETAILS&clt=1&detlev=2&site=IB&sess=1558908366&mid=001&conid=362699310

2. enter - but not trigger an order and left-click on the leftmost column and select check margin impact

..........
peace, love and joy to you
.........
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  #343 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
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roio View Post
I love it after blowing a few accounts over the years 5000 aand 2500 in ES. I can now use larger stops let my entries play out. I have not placed a option trade in two weeks, no more time decay. My goal is only 50 - 100 dollars a day what i need to replace my salary. With the recent volatility I getting that using one mes contact easily.

Thanks, what have you invested to earn $50 - $100 a day?

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  #344 (permalink)
kazz
London
 
 
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Rural WA State View Post
Micro futures have not only allowed me to be able to trade more than one contract at a time(and make more money), but it also saved my bacon yesterday when Prez Trump made his tweet about not putting a tariff on autos. I was short an E-micro and when it started shooting up, my computer decided to lock up. So, by the time I got to my second computer and got to a page I could cover my short, I was down $100. If I had been trading an E-mini, it would have been $1,000! Yes, I was being careless by not having a closer stop loss, but I was testing new routines and just got preoccupied.

Anyway, I just love these Micro Index Futures. I can hold a position much longer without feeling the severe pain I had trading E mini's. This allows my position more time to work and so far I've done better by having this option. Plus as another person said, Sim trading just doesn't have the same feel as real money.

So now I trade Micro futures every day and make or lose $20-30 over 4-6 hours and have a blast. As such, it now falls under entertainment rather than high pressure. Heck a fancy movie can cost this much and don't even talk about going out to eat. Plus I learn a lot and end up getting great ideas. And if I want, by buying more contracts, I can "graduate" to the E-mini level without having to go there.

I predict Micro Index Futures, on a volume basis, will eventually exceed that of the Mini Index Futures. This will generate a lot of nice commissions for the brokers, and isn't that why they are doing this? So, a win-win. Yee-haw!

Are you day trading the micros or swing trade them? I would like to try them but, living in London, are 6 hours ahead. Hey back from work about 7pm so could trade from 8pm to 11pm which is 2pm to 5pm Chicago time. Is this a good time to trade when thinking about spreads and liquidity?

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  #345 (permalink)
 dstrader 
Chicago, USA
 
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techa View Post
I got scare off of considering AMP because a couple of the reviews stated issues with getting their money withdrawn.

fwiw... I've been a AMP Futures customer for many years. Never had any issues. Customer service has been great also, I'm always surprised by the reviews here. Not my experience.

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  #346 (permalink)
 dstrader 
Chicago, USA
 
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Schultz15 View Post
Opened an account with Tradestation this week. They are offering .50 commission on the micro minis. Pretty competitive I thought considering that includes no platform fee and free market data.

Thanks for pointing this out, just noticed this on their web site. Finally, Tradestation being a bit more aggressive on pricing.


This is the link: https://www.tradestation.com:443/pricing/
"Single-Tier Plan
Trade futures for $1.50 per contract, per side and CME Micro e-mini index futures for $0.50 per contract, per side with no software fees, free market data and free premium tools."

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  #347 (permalink)
 cory 
the coin hunter
virginia
 
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dstrader View Post
... no software fees, free market data and free premium tools."

The have seen the light. I still remember paying them $250/m for feed and software and plug in security dongle to verify you are a legitimate user. Moving the dongle from computer to computer was a big hassle I stopped the subscription after it broke and I couldn't pull the part out.

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fugu
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dstrader View Post
Thanks for pointing this out, just noticed this on their web site. Finally, Tradestation being a bit more aggressive on pricing.


This is the link: https://www.tradestation.com:443/pricing/
"Single-Tier Plan
Trade futures for $1.50 per contract, per side and CME Micro e-mini index futures for $0.50 per contract, per side with no software fees, free market data and free premium tools."

Real time cme futures market data is 40 bucks. Can you point me to the free market data? I can only see free stock market data. Trading stocks is 5 bucks per site. Competitive to me looks different.

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  #349 (permalink)
 illogsamples 
Amsterdam, the Netherlands
 
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fugu View Post
Real time cme futures market data is 40 bucks. Can you point me to the free market data? I can only see free stock market data. Trading stocks is 5 bucks per site. Competitive to me looks different.

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

Also, do you get to use tradestation or is it some online ''cloud'' platform?

Tried to learn it myself but could not and brokerage sites make me dizzy.

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  #350 (permalink)
 SMCJB 
Legendary Market Wizard
Houston, TX
 
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Interesting observation at 10:07 on June 13th
ESM9 Volume 698558
ESM9/U9 Spread Volume 123921 which is 17.7% of the outright volume

MESM9 Volume 110362
MESM9/U9 Spread Volume 7 which is 0.0% of the outright volume
Obviously very different dynamics involved in these two contracts!

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 1upTrader 
Seattle, Washington
 
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Today, MES has dropped to 1/5 its previous book size. The spread is a full point.


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 WoodyFox 
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1upTrader View Post
Today, MES has dropped to 1/5 its previous book size. The spread is a full point.


Volume sometimes gets wacky during Contract Rollover. We have no history of this for the MES, but I'm sure its playing a part.

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 snax 
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Not only that, /MESM9 volume finished at about 201K today, making it slightly more heavily-traded than front-month Comex Gold Futures (/GCQ9) !!!

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 SMCJB 
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SMCJB View Post
Interesting observation at 10:07 on June 13th
ESM9 Volume 698558
ESM9/U9 Spread Volume 123921 which is 17.7% of the outright volume

MESM9 Volume 110362
MESM9/U9 Spread Volume 7 which is 0.0% of the outright volume
Obviously very different dynamics involved in these two contracts!

Similar situation today 57k ES spreads and only 11 MES spreads. In fact right now at 8:51 ESM9/U9 is 395/400 (57k/38k) and MESM9/U9 is 400/410 (177/200) so basically 400 choice!
Little surprised there isn't more rolling in the MES.

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  #355 (permalink)
 josh 
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Random thought -- if markets continue to expand, which is what inevitably happens in a growing economy, do you see a situation in the future where the Micros overtake the Minis in terms of volume traded? The notional value of an emini is 50x the index. At today's levels this is about $150K.

Back when the ES was introduced in 1997, the notional value was about $50K. Though today's notional is only 3x what it was then, it's still quite a jump. Imagine if the S&P doubles in 10 years -- you'd be looking at a $300K notional per contract, which is getting a bit rich.

Another way of saying all this ... a 10-handle move just 10 years ago was a "normal" type of day, and I remember when a 20-handle day felt like a big move. Well, that was at ES 1200 or so, IIRC.

So, I could very well see the Micros, with their $15K notional value, nicely moving into the role of primary vehicle over the coming decade.

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  #356 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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josh View Post
Random thought -- if markets continue to expand, which is what inevitably happens in a growing economy, do you see a situation in the future where the Micros overtake the Minis in terms of volume traded? The notional value of an emini is 50x the index. At today's levels this is about $150K.

Back when the ES was introduced in 1997, the notional value was about $50K. Though today's notional is only 3x what it was then, it's still quite a jump. Imagine if the S&P doubles in 10 years -- you'd be looking at a $300K notional per contract, which is getting a bit rich.

Another way of saying all this ... a 10-handle move just 10 years ago was a "normal" type of day, and I remember when a 20-handle day felt like a big move. Well, that was at ES 1200 or so, IIRC.

So, I could very well see the Micros, with their $15K notional value, nicely moving into the role of primary vehicle over the coming decade.

Your theory lacks the growth that the markets have experienced not only in their index size and value but what people actually hold. For example, $401K funds are now in an all-time high; hedge funds have more funds than they ever held in history, and every person of legal age can now buy stocks on the phone. So size does matter.

As a result of this growth, the money that institutions move around is quite "heavy", and they need highly liquid contracts of high notional value to move around, and that is what ES provides. Most of the ES movements comes mainly from cash adjustments to portfolios, hedging, and algos that are also heavy in size. Since the large SP futures is non-existent practically, I think we will see sizeable growth in the ES over the years. It does not mean that there will not be periods where ES could see less volume, but as a long term trend, I see it's expansion.

BTW, the more I observe the MES, the more I conclude that the MES is just "food" for arbitrage of algorithmic traders.

Matt Z
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  #357 (permalink)
 illogsamples 
Amsterdam, the Netherlands
 
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Matt,

Could you expand a little about your last alinea regarding the MES?

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  #358 (permalink)
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
 
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illogsamples View Post
Matt,

Could you expand a little about your last alinea regarding the MES?

Sent using the futures.io mobile app

If you take a look at most of the micros versus the eminis, you will notice a difference of one tick many times.
This creates an arbitrage where you can sell one contract and buy the other.



These are not retail strategies that retail can take advantage of due to latency and in-depth programming. I am not sure how retail gets affected by this, but in a perfect world, they should always be one to one. Spreads are an additional cost to overcome.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #359 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
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josh View Post
Random thought -- if markets continue to expand, which is what inevitably happens in a growing economy, do you see a situation in the future where the Micros overtake the Minis in terms of volume traded? The notional value of an emini is 50x the index. At today's levels this is about $150K.

Back when the ES was introduced in 1997, the notional value was about $50K. Though today's notional is only 3x what it was then, it's still quite a jump. Imagine if the S&P doubles in 10 years -- you'd be looking at a $300K notional per contract, which is getting a bit rich.

Another way of saying all this ... a 10-handle move just 10 years ago was a "normal" type of day, and I remember when a 20-handle day felt like a big move. Well, that was at ES 1200 or so, IIRC.

So, I could very well see the Micros, with their $15K notional value, nicely moving into the role of primary vehicle over the coming decade.


Very insightful thinking. The micros are awesome. I just wish the RT costs were less.

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  #360 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I started this new Micro E-mini trading journal last night.

My goal is 1% per day trading with the new CME Micro E-mini contracts: MES, MNQ, MYM.

I am starting with $1000 live funds and will try to take it to $5000 in 165 trading days (8 months) with just 1% per day.

At that point I will strop trading the micros and will use the regular ES, YM, NQ E-mini contracts.

I will use a maximum of 1 contract per $500 in my account.

Starting out, I will try to get 1% or "just" $10 per day and grow that. My total daily profit at 8 months should be $50 per day.

This may seem small, but remember that $10 is the equivalent of $100 on the ES. $50 is the same as $500 in the ES.

Here are my reasons for starting the journal:
  • Show that people don't need the combines of TST, OneUp, LeeLoo, Earn2Trade, etc in order to get started trading.
  • Make the public accountability high enough that I follow all my rules!
  • Show that SLOW GROWTH is still highly profitable long term

You are welcome to follow along to see how it goes. I promise to be fully transparent.

Steve

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  #361 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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CME holding free Micro E-Mini 5-day trading contest

https://www.cmegroup.com/futures_challenge/challenges/183/landing?utm_source=par..._content=maincta07012019

Starts July 14

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  #362 (permalink)
Danzig
Houston,Tx./U.S.
 
 
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I also signed up for the CME emicro challenge.

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  #363 (permalink)
 ZCars 
Birmingham/UK
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation/Prorealtime
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sstheo View Post


I started this new Micro E-mini trading journal last night.

My goal is 1% per day trading with the new CME Micro E-mini contracts: MES, MNQ, MYM.

I am starting with $1000 live funds and will try to take it to $5000 in 165 trading days (8 months) with just 1% per day.

At that point I will strop trading the micros and will use the regular ES, YM, NQ E-mini contracts.

I will use a maximum of 1 contract per $500 in my account.

Starting out, I will try to get 1% or "just" $10 per day and grow that. My total daily profit at 8 months should be $50 per day.

This may seem small, but remember that $10 is the equivalent of $100 on the ES. $50 is the same as $500 in the ES.

Here are my reasons for starting the journal:
  • Show that people don't need the combines of TST, OneUp, LeeLoo, Earn2Trade, etc in order to get started trading.
  • Make the public accountability high enough that I follow all my rules!
  • Show that SLOW GROWTH is still highly profitable long term

You are welcome to follow along to see how it goes. I promise to be fully transparent.

Steve

Good luck, Steve. Maybe not possible to find opportunities every day? So weekly goals will be less pressure? Maybe leverage more at the beginning and use multiple entries and no stops (well, max loss stop strategy). Be flexible and let the some of the position run/ leave as a swing.

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davetal
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I traded ES Micro for 2 months now and i think its a great learning experience, I dont see much of slippage like people mentioning in the forum

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 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
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ZCars View Post
Good luck, Steve. Maybe not possible to find opportunities every day? So weekly goals will be less pressure? Maybe leverage more at the beginning and use multiple entries and no stops (well, max loss stop strategy). Be flexible and let the some of the position run/ leave as a swing.


Yes, I agree. Good observation on the daily goal. My implied true goal was a running AVERAGE of 1% per day. The spreadsheet I post in my journal has an average column across the top.

Additionally, I will start to use a second position soon and try for larger winners.


.

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  #366 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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https://www.cmegroup.com/futures_challenge/challenges/183/landing?utm_source=par..._content=maincta07012019

Click the link above to enter the 5 day challenge from CME.

You can trade up to 10 contracts each of MICRO es, ym, nq, and rty. Also known as: MES, MYM, MNQ, M2k.

You have a simulated $100k account and can trade a max of 40 contracts simultaneously until Friday.

Prize money awaits the traders with the biggest balance at the end of the week. I could not find any other trading rules.


.

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  #367 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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As of this moment, the leaderboard says there are 1,416 participants.

Here is the leader board after the first 20 minutes:




What caught my attention is that right out the gate is appears that most traders are wrong in their trades. Only 12 of 47 traders are profitable out the gate. That is about 25%.

Let's see how things change over the next 5 days.

My goal is to be in the top 50.



.

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 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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Yeah!

After 30 mins of trading I went from place 272 to 11-16-isch.

Was 4 X 10 contract long at start, but swapped to 4 x 10 short.

Trading is fun in competition. Especially when it doesn't involve real money!

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  #369 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
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Good luck with this.

I wonder how many will trade this simulation with the full number of contracts that the sim balance of 100k will allow, rather than the much smaller size that they could trade in real life. Will the eventual winner will be someone who controls his/her risk and shoots for consistency or someone who goes for the big win and shoots for the moon. Hmmm.



Still, I hope that anyone who is in it finds some good from it in terms of experience, one way or another.

This is definitely no criticism of anyone's choice to participate. It will be a challenge that is hard to succeed at in the face of all the competition. And it may help popularize the micros, which will benefit many traders.

It will be good to follow the results, and I will applaud the winner.

Bob.

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  #370 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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After 45 min I was in the number one spot. That was fun.

Some guys are NUTS when they trade, and I will gladly give up my spot. I have a life to live. Currently at # 28.

But I will keep trying this week. Just have to hang on... Perhaps everyone else will self-destruct...


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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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davetal View Post
I traded ES Micro for 2 months now and i think its a great learning experience, I dont see much of slippage like people mentioning in the forum

I think the MICROS are a great tool for learning, making the leap from simulated trading to live trading and as possible hedge when trading the regular mini sized contracts.

Volume so far is impressive.

My favorite is the MNQ ( MICRO mini) as the reg. mini nasdaq could be a bit much for traders with accounts smaller than 10k.

The same support / resistance levels we publish daily for the large contracts, apply for the MICROS as well.

PM with any questions about Cannon Trading (800) 454-9572 (310) 859-9572. Trading commodity futures, forex and options involves substantial risk of loss. The recommendations contained in this post are of opinion only and do not guarantee any profits. These are risky markets and only risk capital should be used. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results.
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  #372 (permalink)
 TraderTS 
Texas, USA
 
Experience: Advanced
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CannonTrading View Post
I think the MICROS are a great tool for learning, making the leap from simulated trading to live trading and as possible hedge when trading the regular mini sized contracts.

Volume so far is impressive.

I am looking for a second brokerage firm and currently visiting Los Angeles... So is it possible to request an appointment for a personal tour of the firm? This Friday July 19th around 10:30 am ET?


Find the missing piece of the puzzle... Let's be amazing, be awesome in trading today!
iTS
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 CannonTrading   is a Vendor
 
 
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TraderTS View Post
I am looking for a second brokerage firm and currently visiting Los Angeles... So is it possible to request an appointment for a personal tour of the firm? This Friday July 19th around 10:30 am ET?

Be happy to, please PM me and we can set it up, chat on the phone first and have you over for coffee and a visit.

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 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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Posts: 20 since Dec 2017
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Hi sstheo, I thought I was doing well being at position 6 in 30 minutes. From your print I see you have beaten me at 45 minutes, you are number 1!

At least weíre on the same page!

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  #375 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
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OneEye View Post
Hi sstheo, I thought I was doing well being at position 6 in 30 minutes. From your print I see you have beaten me at 45 minutes, you are number 1!

At least we’re on the same page!


There are some very aggressive and awesome traders in this CME competition.

I quickly dropped off the top ten down into the 40's but have clawed my way back now to #22.

Fun stuff.

Keep up the great work!

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  #376 (permalink)
 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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I agree. In a competition with:

- no commissions
- an actual downrisk of zero
- a chance on $2500 price money,

Taking irrational risks and / or overtrading is the best bet to bring home that $2500.

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  #377 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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OneEye View Post
I agree. In a competition with:

- no commissions
- an actual downrisk of zero
- a chance on $2500 price money,

Taking irrational risks and / or overtrading is the best bet to bring home that $2500.


You are a humorist for sure. But the hallmark of a true comedian is the subtle truths they weave throughout the narrative. CME makes the participants watch videos about futures trading, but they don't actually promote good trading.

Why?

We are chickens in a den of foxes! LOL. They want us to take irrational risks and overtrade.

This being said, they could have done a real service to the Micro contract traders by encouraging them to "trade responsibly" (sounds like a beer commercial!) by setting up the contest like this:
  • Reach $3000 by the end of 5 days (just to keep them moving)
  • The trader with the lowest risk-adjusted return wins.

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  #378 (permalink)
 bobwest 
Site Moderator
Sarasota FL
 
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OneEye View Post

Taking irrational risks and / or overtrading is the best bet to bring home that $2500.


sstheo View Post

We are chickens in a den of foxes! LOL. They want us to take irrational risks and overtrade.

This being said, they could have done a real service to the Micro contract traders by encouraging them to "trade responsibly" (sounds like a beer commercial!) by setting up the contest like this:
  • Reach $3000 by the end of 5 days (just to keep them moving)
  • The trader with the lowest risk-adjusted return wins.

Too right.

Trading volume makes the business of exchanges and brokers pay off. This is not inherently bad, but traders should recognize where their interests lie, and hopefully there can be a meeting in the middle.

But this contest, while it will be entertaining and it may help introduce the micros, is also probably going to reward some takers of long shots and high risk. The slow-and-steady type traders, who win in real life, will likely not do as well, and some bad lessons may be taught.

Not that it won't be fun to watch, but from the sidelines, not in it (for me anyway.)

Bob.

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  #379 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
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I am at spot #11 at the end of day 2. 1400+ people signed up, but about 500 appear to be actively trading.

I agree that this is fun, but teaches some bad risky habits.

Still, it is encouraging to know that I have learned a little bit in my many years of trading.

My goal was to finish in the top 50, but my new goal is to finish in the top 10.





.

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  #380 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
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This is just for fun. The risks taken are extremely high.

I got creamed last night and dropped to #71. But fought may way back valiantly today...






.

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  #381 (permalink)
 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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sstheso, really excellent results!

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  #382 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
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OneEye View Post
sstheso, really excellent results!

Thanks. You are kind. This has taken a lot of time, but I got to discover that there are some really amazing traders out there and that I still have MUCH to learn.

The contest ends at 12 NY time tomorrow.

It will be tough, but I actually think I might be able to finish in the top 10.

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  #383 (permalink)
 Nostar123 
Atlanta
 
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sstheo View Post
This is just for fun. The risks taken are extremely high.

I got creamed last night and dropped to #71. But fought may way back valiantly today...






.

Pretty awesome two Futures.io members are in top 10!. Fingers crossed I can place at least top 3 but ANYTHING can happen tomorrow and the amount of luck needed is insane. Just this morning i was in 150th place!

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  #384 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
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Nostar123 View Post
Pretty awesome two Futures.io members are in top 10!. Fingers crossed I can place at least top 3 but ANYTHING can happen tomorrow and the amount of luck needed is insane. Just this morning i was in 150th place!

Congratulations!!! You have had quite a run.

Yes, there is a big luck factor here since proper risk management doesn't seem to be part of the equation as we all sprint madly toward the finish line.

$2,500 may be yours tomorrow afternoon!

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  #385 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
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And FIO's very own @Nostar123 placed #2 out of 1400+ entrants!

Great work man! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

(I ended in the #13 spot)

Fun competition. Now back to some real trading with proper risk management.

I am trying to take the very same CME Micros from $1000 to $5000 (see my journal). Lots of work to do.


.

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  #386 (permalink)
 Nostar123 
Atlanta
 
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sstheo View Post


And FIO's very own @Nostar123 placed #2 out of 1400+ entrants!

Great work man! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

(I ended in the #13 spot)

Fun competition. Now back to some real trading with proper risk management.

I am trying to take the very same CME Micros from $1000 to $5000 (see my journal). Lots of work to do.


.

Thank you! I definitely broke some trading rules but you pretty much had to go gung-ho from the start to even think about making top 10. Overall, it was a very unique and fun experience!

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  #387 (permalink)
 snax 
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago
 
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sstheo View Post


And FIO's very own @Nostar123 placed #2 out of 1400+ entrants!

Great work man! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

(I ended in the #13 spot)

Fun competition. Now back to some real trading with proper risk management.

I am trying to take the very same CME Micros from $1000 to $5000 (see my journal). Lots of work to do.


.

Nice trading @sstheo and @Nostar123!

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  #388 (permalink)
 OneEye 
The Netherlands
 
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Posts: 20 since Dec 2017
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CONGRATULATIONS to both Nostar123 for second place in the contest, and for sstheo for the second place of all the FIO traders!


At some points this week I thought the markets where not moving at all, so pulling $12,435.25 and $8,349.25 in 1 week is awesome!



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  #389 (permalink)
 sstheo 
Holladay, Utah, USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts
Broker: AMP/CQG
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OneEye View Post
CONGRATULATIONS to both Nostar123 for second place in the contest, and for sstheo for the second place of all the FIO traders!


At some points this week I thought the markets where not moving at all, so pulling $12,435.25 and $8,349.25 in 1 week is awesome!




Nice celebration for us. Thanks.

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  #390 (permalink)
 hen322 
San Francisco CA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS, Jigsaw
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Trading: Micro ES, ZN, Stocks
 
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OneEye View Post
CONGRATULATIONS to both Nostar123 for second place in the contest, and for sstheo for the second place of all the FIO traders!


At some points this week I thought the markets where not moving at all, so pulling $12,435.25 and $8,349.25 in 1 week is awesome!



I was right below sstheo. Nice job guys!


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  #391 (permalink)
 shortcreeker 
salt Lake city Utah
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninjatrader
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Instead of signing up for the CME competition I decided to participate in the futures.io journal challenge and to trade the MES (ES Micros) with a live account and journal every trade. This has been working really well and gives me a sense of how my strategy is working and as it is a live account it means allot more to me than a trade in a sim account. After identifying and live testing a successful trading strategy on the Micros I will move to the full ES contract...with the experience and confidence that trading live brings. Here is the link to the futures.io journal challenge

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  #392 (permalink)
neil
Cambridge, UK
 
 
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NinjaTrader View Post
NinjaTrader Brokerage.

Rather than ask us to run compatibility software such as 'Wine' to enable the Imac user to utilise Ninjatrader, could you not build an Imac specific Ninjatrader platform?

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 NinjaTrader  NinjaTrader is an official Site Sponsor
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neil View Post
Rather than ask us to run compatibility software such as 'Wine' to enable the Imac user to utilise Ninjatrader, could you not build an Imac specific Ninjatrader platform?

The underlying technology NinjaTrader is built upon (Microsoft .NET) does not run on a Mac.

Disclosure: This communication is sent to you by NinjaTrader, LLC, a software development company which owns and supports all proprietary technology relating to and including the NinjaTrader trading platform.
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hurleydood
San Diego, California/USA
 
 
Posts: 27 since Jun 2012
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The underlying technology NinjaTrader is built upon (Microsoft .NET) does not run on a Mac.

According to Microsoft, Microsoft .NET also runs on Linux and MacOS.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/macos-prerequisites

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  #395 (permalink)
 addchild 
Bay Area California
 
Experience: None
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hurleydood View Post
According to Microsoft, Microsoft .NET also runs on Linux and MacOS.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/macos-prerequisites



Dot net Core runs on mac and Linux. Dot net FRAMEWORK, on which ninjatrader is built, does not.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

.
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  #396 (permalink)
hurleydood
San Diego, California/USA
 
 
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addchild View Post
Dot net Core runs on mac and Linux. Dot net FRAMEWORK, on which ninjatrader is built, does not.


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

They could get there faster with Avalonia .NET UI framework which supports WPF and SharpDX. https://avaloniaui.net/

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  #397 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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addchild View Post
Dot net Core runs on mac and Linux. Dot net FRAMEWORK, on which ninjatrader is built, does not.

Aside from that, the task of porting over a large and complex program to an entirely different operating system would be something of a nightmare, even if you could throw a load of programmers at it, and if you were willing to spend a lot of time on it. (What is a "lot"? It took NT several years to get NT8 running well on Windows, in the upgrade from NT7. Porting to an entirely new environment would be a huge job.)

For a task this large, there would have to be a very large financial incentive to go to the Mac, one that would more profitable than just letting Mac users run NT using one of the usual ways to run a Windows program on the Mac. Not a decision I would make.

I don't speak for NT, of course. I'm just a guy typing on a web forum.

I don't think you're going to see this conversion, though. That's a pity, because being able to run something as native code on any machine just by recompiling has long been a sought-for goal, but one that isn't here yet.

Bob.

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  #398 (permalink)
 josh 
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Georgia, US
 
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It's really straightforward IMO: if you want to run trading software, you must run Windows. Bottom line. I don't like it either.. I ran Sierra Chart in a VM for some time on my linux machine, and eventually got tired of the limitations inherent with that, and just set up two machines, one Windows for trading only, and my work/everything workstation running Linux. Throw in my work MBP and I'm running all 3 major OSes most every day

Porting anything that is so heavily UI-centric like trading software is not really so much a port as a total rewrite. Native applications are themselves a bit of a dying breed--the web (and mobile, by extension) became the new platform of choice for modern applications several years ago. Just look at the new TT web -- TT took on a multi year project to rebirth X Trader as a web platform.

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  #399 (permalink)
 Nostar123 
Atlanta
 
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https://www.cmegroup.com/futures_challenge/leaderboard

I think you need to create a cme account first though

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  #400 (permalink)
 FuturesTrader71 
 
 
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Hello traders,

Can you help us push the Micro-CL contract on CME/NYMEX by voting in this poll? I started pushing the micro indices back in 2012 and it took too long to get it done. We want to show them that there is demand for micro-energies.

Vote here:


I will be meeting with directors at CME later this week.

Appreciated!

FuturesTrader71

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