Market Internals Vs Price Action, what can be seen from them? - futures io
futures io futures trading



Market Internals Vs Price Action, what can be seen from them?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated by ab456
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one ab456 with 3 posts (1 thanks)
    2. looks_two Rad4633 with 3 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 tigertrader with 2 posts (2 thanks)
    4. looks_4 GridKing with 2 posts (3 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one rickey with 2.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two GridKing with 1.5 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 tigertrader with 1.0 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 trendisyourfriend with 1.0 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 6,810 views
    2. thumb_up 12 thanks given
    3. group 10 followers
    1. forum 14 replies
    2. attach_file 1 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 100,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Market Internals Vs Price Action, what can be seen from them?

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 891 received

Can Market Internals show me something before Price Action, all input greatly appreciated.

$UVOL-$DVOL $TICK(I can see scalping off tick) $ADVN-$DECN $TRIN TRIX I cant get a heads up before Price Action with internals, Am I missing something? Maybe the time frames make a huge difference?

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Rad4633 for this post:

 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Is anyone actually making money?
182 thanks
Micro account vs Funded account (combine)
53 thanks
Are sharks watching on the other side?
30 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
24 thanks
Life sacrifice loneliness trading futures
20 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
San Diego, CA USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
GridKing's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,650 since May 2011
Thanks: 584 given, 880 received


It's a loaded question to answer IMO, in trying to keep it simple, I would say that Market Internals can be extremely useful in two ways....1) you are always looking for divergence (does the move and direction make sense? ... If you have a breakout above resistance , are key components matching what you are seeing? What sectors are showing strength to support the move? Are financials, Techs, whatever the flavor of the day etc... showing the same or are they being sold into the breakout, what are you seeing to support the move? Where as price action alone is a break above resistance , resistance becomes support or not....) 2. Useful when choosing your entry , exit , let's say you use an RSI on your chart as a comparison, if it's pegged at 100 are you going to jump in and buy? Same goes with $Tick and many others, it may save you a few cents, it may save you much more, it may show you a different picture all together .... these are all just like gauges in your car, the more you have that you know how to read and understand, the more you know what is going on under the hood... but if you say heads up as in predicting or seeing into the future .... waste of time and energy

hope that makes sense and is helpful...

"Successful trading is one long journey, not a destination" Peter Borish Former Head of Research for Paul Tudor Jones speaking on conversations with John F. Carter
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to GridKing for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,882 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,511 given, 4,955 received

In my opinion, all these indicators are lagging . On the other hand, if you have an open position and would like to know if you can hold on some more then looking at these internals can help you assess the situation.

Now, if you want to develop your skill of anticipation to address the 'before' element of your question then volume is the key. Before any move can take place volume must be present. Price can only move one tick up or down if volume becomes appreciable. To be sure, just look at your most profitable setup(s) along with a volume ladder or the Footprint, you'll quickly realize that volume precedes all moves.


Rad4633 View Post
Can Market Internals show me something before Price Action, all input greatly appreciated.

$UVOL-$DVOL $TICK(I can see scalping off tick) $ADVN-$DECN $TRIN TRIX I cant get a heads up before Price Action with internals, Am I missing something? Maybe the time frames make a huge difference?


Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Philly, Pa
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, ZB
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,255 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 6,573 given, 34,882 received


Rad4633 View Post
Can Market Internals show me something before Price Action, all input greatly appreciated.

$UVOL-$DVOL $TICK(I can see scalping off tick) $ADVN-$DECN $TRIN TRIX I cant get a heads up before Price Action with internals, Am I missing something? Maybe the time frames make a huge difference?

As "Ole Blue" eyes said: "You can't have one without the other"

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Philly, Pa
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES, ZB
 
tigertrader's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,255 since Jul 2010
Thanks: 6,573 given, 34,882 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
In my opinion, all these indicators are lagging . On the other hand, if you have an open position and would like to know if you can hold on some more then looking at these internals can help you assess the situation.

Now, if you want to develop your skill of anticipation to address the 'before' element of your question then volume is the key. Before any move can take place volume must be present. Price can only move one tick up or down if volume becomes appreciable. To be sure, just look at your most profitable setup(s) along with a volume ladder or the Footprint, you'll quickly realize that volume precedes all moves.

...about as cliche ridden and anachronistic as your moniker!

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to tigertrader for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 891 received


GridKing View Post
It's a loaded question to answer IMO, in trying to keep it simple, I would say that Market Internals can be extremely useful in two ways....1) you are always looking for divergence (does the move and direction make sense? ... If you have a breakout above resistance , are key components matching what you are seeing? What sectors are showing strength to support the move? Are financials, Techs, whatever the flavor of the day etc... showing the same or are they being sold into the breakout, what are you seeing to support the move? Where as price action alone is a break above resistance , resistance becomes support or not....) 2. Useful when choosing your entry , exit , let's say you use an RSI on your chart as a comparison, if it's pegged at 100 are you going to jump in and buy? Same goes with $Tick and many others, it may save you a few cents, it may save you much more, it may show you a different picture all together .... these are all just like gauges in your car, the more you have that you know how to read and understand, the more you know what is going on under the hood... but if you say heads up as in predicting or seeing into the future .... waste of time and energy

I see your point, thank you.. Today I had 6 new charts up.... way to much to process along with my normal 3 different time frame screens PA charts. What I did was try to over think each chart to come up with the correct PA direction. I did like the tick the rest not so much.

hope that makes sense and is helpful...


trendisyourfriend View Post
In my opinion, all these indicators are lagging . On the other hand, if you have an open position and would like to know if you can hold on some more then looking at these internals can help you assess the situation.

Now, if you want to develop your skill of anticipation to address the 'before' element of your question then volume is the key. Before any move can take place volume must be present. Price can only move one tick up or down if volume becomes appreciable. To be sure, just look at your most profitable setup(s) along with a volume ladder or the Footprint, you'll quickly realize that volume precedes all moves.

I agree with you on volume I have yet found a vol chart that doesnt give false signals, big spikes means reversals etc, can you share which vol chart you use this would be helpful, I studied better volume for 3 mths couldnt make it read same ever time


tigertrader View Post
...about as cliche ridden and anachronistic as your moniker!

You made me google and think on this one ur first response is where Im at do I just need to stop and watch PA alone and master it? (Im decent now,heard there was 5 stages to becoming a trader 5th stage you just get it, Im knocking on door number 5 looking for final piece) I do use bollinger, along with a 5sma and the bollinger 20sma. I have support/res lines on my chart as PA forms them , sorta went away from pivots except R4/S4. I use 15min,3200tick and a trending 4 range charts thats it.Sometime I glance at a512T...

Suggestions Guys...Any input always appreciated

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Greensboro NC
 
Experience: None
Platform: TOS/ NT Dorman
Trading: ES TF CL
 
Rad4633's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352 since Sep 2011
Thanks: 2,651 given, 891 received


GridKing View Post
It's a loaded question to answer IMO, in trying to keep it simple, I would say that Market Internals can be extremely useful in two ways....1) you are always looking for divergence (does the move and direction make sense? ... If you have a breakout above resistance , are key components matching what you are seeing? What sectors are showing strength to support the move? Are financials, Techs, whatever the flavor of the day etc... showing the same or are they being sold into the breakout, what are you seeing to support the move? Where as price action alone is a break above resistance , resistance becomes support or not....) 2. Useful when choosing your entry , exit , let's say you use an RSI on your chart as a comparison, if it's pegged at 100 are you going to jump in and buy? Same goes with $Tick and many others, it may save you a few cents, it may save you much more, it may show you a different picture all together .... these are all just like gauges in your car, the more you have that you know how to read and understand, the more you know what is going on under the hood... but if you say heads up as in predicting or seeing into the future .... waste of time and energy

hope that makes sense and is helpful...

my first reply didnt post to you,so here it is. You seem to always make me think about something I hadnt thought of before like watching leading sectors, but still wouldnt my PA show me what they are doing? divergence I need to watch more, it could give me a heads up. Just when u think ur close the gap widens and more testing begins geez....

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
San Diego, CA USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: ES
 
GridKing's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,650 since May 2011
Thanks: 584 given, 880 received

In response, I can only speak for myself and some of the things I have observed or picked up along the way, but I think everyone should use what works for them. But there is a great deal of information available to get an idea of the bigger picture , if that is what you seek. If the market is moving up on defensive stocks (those that may take less of a hit during hard economic times) does the upward trend have staying power? If on the other hand, there is money flowing into small caps and more speculative assets (risk on) there may be another story being told...

here are some suggestions if you'd like to know more about market internals and getting the big picture ....

Stock News & Stock Market Analysis Videos on IBD TV - IBD - Investors.com daily video

Money Flows: Selling on Strength - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

SentimenTrader Home (subscription required , free 14 day trial )

Market Breadth Definition | Investopedia



Market Summary - Free Charts - StockCharts.com


StockCharts.com Blogs - Don't Ignore This Chart!

http://www.sectorspdr.com/sectorspdr/sectortracker/

"Successful trading is one long journey, not a destination" Peter Borish Former Head of Research for Paul Tudor Jones speaking on conversations with John F. Carter
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to GridKing for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Victoria BC/Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Investor RT, Ninjatrader,
Broker: DTN/CQG/Rythmic
Trading: ES ,Currency Futures, Oil , Gold
 
Posts: 42 since Nov 2011
Thanks: 96 given, 29 received



Here is a small example of how I use market internals when trading ES. The attached image is of 3 charts, top is $DJIA, middle $TICK and bottom is bonds, When trading ES I find that DJIA leads ES by a few seconds to about a 1 minute or so, and the Tick vol does as well. I use these 2 for a market trend direction, on a 1 min ES chart, ( or not if no change is occurring ) and the bonds which move the opposite way usually, as a confirmation that the trend is real and continuing. It takes some screen time to grasp what is happening, and is not to be used a quick-I-can-trade-it indicator. It really works best when a trader is taking the big picture into account. There are some really good writers on this ( big picture) subject here, Josh is one I have seen, and if you chase down those threads, they can write much better than I. Big Mike is also on this issue every where on this site, e.g. you don't need another indicator. So I'm giving you some ideas, but these are not trading indicators per se.
Hope it Helps,

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Shamal for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Emini and Emicro Index > Market Internals Vs Price Action, what can be seen from them?


April 6, 2013


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Relative Rotation Graphs w/Julius de Kempenaer

Elite only
 

Every journal equals ten meals for the hungry

Now
     



Copyright © 2020 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts