Asking Suggestions On Next Step After Profit With One Lot Trading-Micros

October 26th, 2019, 01:37 PM

TCCONDE

Hi Techa.

I am a new guy around here but I have been trading for about 55 years and I have real college degrees in this crap. For full disclosure, other than cash, my trading accounts/portfolios are about 30% futures, 60% options, and the rest stocks (the result of naked puts and for covered calls). I was taught to trade onezies (in anything) until I understood the market (as far as I or any human can) and was making a decent profit. If I am looking at defined risk, I typically spend 1-3% of my overall buying power per trade. If it is undefined risk, up to 6% per trade. I am a huge believer in probabilities, and the central limit theorem. The more times I enter a trade with well designed mechanics, the more the results will, over time, take on a normal distribution. For futures, I traded futures options until I had enough of a handle on it to take the plunge. What I am saying is that onezies have their place, like training wheels. But I never go over 5-6% of my portfolio buying power for any trade. BUT, find a broker that offers portfolio margin.

Good luck.

Tim

I'm still working FT at this point and really only have 3 days a week to practice. I started trading micro futures after doing spectacularly with my sim account for a couple of months and then slowly took a painful beating until I forced myself to stick with one contract to work on my entries. Most of my account is still intact and I've learned a lot, the biggest lesson is that losses are a part of it and if I stick to my plan I can eventually progress to multiple contracts. This forum has been invaluable! Thank you for your suggestions.

October 26th, 2019, 01:40 PM

Meklon

Well...I am sure if you follow this path gradually it will take you to the place where your mental focus is comfortable to trade multiple contracts. One more advice for you if / when you will get to the 6 lot trades: When you have multiple contracts that you can scale out in 3rds (i.e. trading 6 or 9), I would recommend to adjust your profit taking patter as following - on the 1st target take 4 out of 6 off and move your stop to break-even or one tick below. Then let your 2 remaining contracts run to the 2nd target and take another one off. The last one will be a runner. This way you profit on 65% of your initial position and reduce the risk immediately still having paid for a cup of coffee even if the trade goes against you.

Cheers,

Mek.

Another copy and paste into my trading journal! Thank you for all of your advice!!!

October 27th, 2019, 03:46 AM

4tison

thx

If you are going to change - do consider Trade Futures 4 Less as you broker, their highest price is 0.20 USD lower than Ninja traders lowest price i.e. 0.4 per R/T per ES contract - you get discount if you trader more than 2000 contracts per month. Day trading margins is the same.

I have been with them for several years - never any problem always good service - So if you are going to change go for the lowest price. - If you trade many contracts, they will also help you in getting membership on the relevant exchanges - then the commission savings really becomes significant.

https://tradefutures4less.com/commissions/

TraderMich

October 27th, 2019, 08:07 AM

TraderMich

If you are going to change - do consider Trade Futures 4 Less as you broker, their highest price is 0.20 USD lower than Ninja traders lowest price i.e. 0.4 per R/T per ES contract - you get discount if you trader more than 2000 contracts per month. Day trading margins is the same.

I have been with them for several years - never any problem always good service - So if you are going to change go for the lowest price. - If you trade many contracts, they will also help you in getting membership on the relevant exchanges - then the commission savings really becomes significant.

https://tradefutures4less.com/commissions/

TraderMich

I will check them out and definitely keep them in mind!

October 27th, 2019, 11:51 AM

techa

I will check them out and definitely keep them in mind!

Ok Good - They have 28 different trading platforms, some many opportunities, I personally use Sierra Charts with data feed from CQG. - This cost 0.05 USD per contract so 0.1 USD per R/T

TraderMich

October 28th, 2019, 01:40 AM

All:
What I am hearing is that if you can't trade multiple lots. why bother? That's great but many people, maybe the majority of people, have accounts that can only trade onezies. To those that have these small accounts, I have an idea for you. Small accounts have a difficult time trading many products. But you need to trade it to learn how it works, where the potholes are and how to avoid them. My thought? Do like I do and trade options in futures. If noithiing else, you can learn different products and trade ES and NQ, or even ZW and ZC and many others. Options on futures are a great training ground and I still do it. You can throw on defined risk trades (butterflies, condors, verticals, whatever) until you get your feet on the ground and make good money in the process. The other day, I sold a strangle in Natural Gas. Nice and wide. On Nov 15, assuming it stays between my strikes, I pocket a good hunk of change. Can't afford a strangle, do an iron condor. All I am saying is that you do not have to trade multiple futures contracts right off. Gain experience with options on futures and when you are really ready, BLAST OFF. One of the maxims of trading that I have nailed above my monitor array is NEVER CHASE A TRADE. I would amend that to NEVER CHASE SUCCESS. You keep trading and learning and success will find you.

CannonTrading · October 28th, 2019, 11:58 AM

Meklon

Well...I am sure if you follow this path gradually it will take you to the place where your mental focus is comfortable to trade multiple contracts. One more advice for you if / when you will get to the 6 lot trades: When you have multiple contracts that you can scale out in 3rds (i.e. trading 6 or 9), I would recommend to adjust your profit taking pattern as following - on the 1st target take 4 out of 6 off and move your stop to break-even or one tick below. Then let your 2 remaining contracts run to the 2nd target and take another one off. The last one will be a runner. This way you profit on 65% of your initial position and reduce the risk immediately still having paid for a cup of coffee even if the trade goes against you.

Cheers,

Mek.

I agree!! if one can do so based on risk capital and mental discipline, I personally think it is an excellent advise.

I wrote the following a few years back on the topic:

Trade management is more important than Market Analysis�.

I have done this so many times before, my colleagues tell me when it happens to them as well as some of my clients�.You have the perfect read on the market. The market actually ends up doing what you thought it would and in a BIG way�yet somehow you managed to LOSE money despite your perfect analysis. To me this is sometimes more frustrating than having a bad losing day.

What happened?
Poor trade management, that�s what happened.
Yes, reading the market well is a much needed quality if you plan on making money rather than contributing donations to the market but more important is how you manage the trade / position once you read the market. Much easier said than done, especially after the fact but here are some tips that I am hoping will assist you in the next time you have a good market read.
By the way, the reason to this quick trading tidbit is the stock market rally we saw today in stock indices. Both my colleague and I �had the right analysis� on this possible rally yet he managed to lose and get stopped out twice while I took a small piece of the rally BUT not nearly as much as I should have�.
1. You don�t have a crystal ball. To think you can buy an ES contract in this volatility and use a 2 point stop in hopes of making 20 points profit is a very low probability event�you would need to buy it at the PEREFECT time for this to happen. Point is, with higher volatility you need to use WIDER stops to give yourself a chance. That may mean using SMALLER trade size.
2. If you are able to, share your read with another trader, it may provide you with a better perspective just by sharing.
3. If you think there is room for a big move or what we call a �runner� - be prepared to for the pullbacks. Use multiple time frames to gain a better perspective and hang in there for the big move, if this is what you think can happen.
4. If you have enough risk capital, try to use multiple contracts, example buying 2 rather than 1. Taking profit on the first part of the position will help you relax and look at what the market is really telling you rather than what you would like it to say. It helps reduce both the fear and the greed.
5. �Plan your trade, trade your plan�
Again these are just some short pointers, written quickly after today�s session in hopes of helping you when you face a similar situation.

November 7th, 2019, 11:26 PM

LadiesAnGentlemen

I finally become profitable when I started to trade more contracts.

It is almost impossible to pinpoint consistently entries and exits.

When I gave up to achieve this and started top scale in and out of positions, things finally changed

I am very interested in what you are saying which is really great.

Would it be convenient at all for you to show us any of your trading screens,
while you are accomplishing the profitable results from your description et al.

You need not post any summary results of any of your trade, K?

Just a live trading screen shot would suffice. Many thx. [email protected]

November 7th, 2019, 11:45 PM

TCCONDE

All:
What I am hearing is that if you can't trade multiple lots. why bother? That's great but many people, maybe the majority of people, have accounts that can only trade onezies. To those that have these small accounts, I have an idea for you. Small accounts have a difficult time trading many products. But you need to trade it to learn how it works, where the potholes are and how to avoid them. My thought? Do like I do and trade options in futures. If noithiing else, you can learn different products and trade ES and NQ, or even ZW and ZC and many others. Options on futures are a great training ground and I still do it. You can throw on defined risk trades (butterflies, condors, verticals, whatever) until you get your feet on the ground and make good money in the process. The other day, I sold a strangle in Natural Gas. Nice and wide. On Nov 15, assuming it stays between my strikes, I pocket a good hunk of change. Can't afford a strangle, do an iron condor. All I am saying is that you do not have to trade multiple futures contracts right off. Gain experience with options on futures and when you are really ready, BLAST OFF. One of the maxims of trading that I have nailed above my monitor array is NEVER CHASE A TRADE. I would amend that to NEVER CHASE SUCCESS. You keep trading and learning and success will find you.

Who do you use for your options futures trading may I ask?

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

January 25th, 2020, 10:32 AM

CannonTrading

1. You don�t have a crystal ball. To think you can buy an ES contract in this volatility and use a 2 point stop in hopes of making 20 points profit is a very low probability event�you would need to buy it at the PEREFECT time for this to happen. Point is, with higher volatility you need to use WIDER stops to give yourself a chance. That may mean using SMALLER trade size.

Hi there,

Just wondering, how many points for a stop loss would you consider wide enough with this volatility?

Thanks!

Asking Suggestions On Next Step After Profit With One Lot Trading-Micros

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Asking Suggestions On Next Step After Profit With One Lot Trading-Micros