Scalping ES, need help - Emini and Emicro Index Futures Trading | futures io social day trading
futures io futures trading


Scalping ES, need help
Updated: Views / Replies:1,653 / 48
Created: by ALC77 Attachments:2

Welcome to futures io.

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

futures io is the largest futures trading community on the planet, with over 100,000 members. At futures io, our goal has always been and always will be to create a friendly, positive, forward-thinking community where members can openly share and discuss everything the world of trading has to offer. The community is one of the friendliest you will find on any subject, with members going out of their way to help others. Some of the primary differences between futures io and other trading sites revolve around the standards of our community. Those standards include a code of conduct for our members, as well as extremely high standards that govern which partners we do business with, and which products or services we recommend to our members.

At futures io, our focus is on quality education. No hype, gimmicks, or secret sauce. The truth is: trading is hard. To succeed, you need to surround yourself with the right support system, educational content, and trading mentors – all of which you can find on futures io, utilizing our social trading environment.

With futures io, you can find honest trading reviews on brokers, trading rooms, indicator packages, trading strategies, and much more. Our trading review process is highly moderated to ensure that only genuine users are allowed, so you don’t need to worry about fake reviews.

We are fundamentally different than most other trading sites:
  • We are here to help. Just let us know what you need.
  • We work extremely hard to keep things positive in our community.
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts.
  • We firmly believe in and encourage sharing. The holy grail is within you, we can help you find it.
  • We expect our members to participate and become a part of the community. Help yourself by helping others.

You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

Reply
 2  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 

Scalping ES, need help

  #41 (permalink)
Fort Worth, TX
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP Futures, CQG data
Favorite Futures: none
 
Posts: 49 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 140 given, 25 received


phantomtrader View Post
You might take a look at this guy's trades (mark101rrrr) on Jigsaw Leaderboard. It's quite remarkable. So I guess it can be done. I scalp the CL for 1 tick early in the day before the market opens. But I don't trade it as well as this guy does. Many of his trades are 0:0 time in/out. I've asked about it - no answer from anyone to date. It may be an auto bot on the MT4 or 5 platform. I mapped over 100 of his trades, reviewed them in replay - I made a video of replay so I could slow it down to see if there was anything on the Jigsaw DOM which would give some insight into the strategy. Occasionally, I saw something. Most of the time, not. In any case, you should take a look - you can download the details of all his trades.

I think it's curious that no one other than myself has asked about it - at least to knowledge, no one has.

https://www.jigsawtrading.com/leaderboard/

@phantomtrader You are right. You and I have had this conversation about mark101rrr in PM recently. I really do think he has something automated set up. I am not trying to fully automate anything so I really doubt I can get to that level, nor will I be trying to!

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ALC77 for this post:
 
  #42 (permalink)
Fort Worth, TX
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: AMP Futures, CQG data
Favorite Futures: none
 
Posts: 49 since Feb 2017
Thanks: 140 given, 25 received


Trambo View Post
Really interesting thread here and some great contributions.

I can’t really offer much in the way of advice as I’m still not profitable but I’ve basically just stopped pursuing this technique.

I’m also a Jigsaw user and came from the bonds trying to implement John Grady’s technique and training. I’ve had a number of stop starts for a number of reasons but more recently I’ve been attempting very small scalps in the ES - basically as Pete talks about in his pretty famous scalping video.

I was also spurred on by hearing how successful Gary Norden is at this - but remember he’s been doing it for decades and I think looks at thinner markets than the ES. The ES is a complex beast with a number of different participants after different things. Volatility recently seems to be well above what I personally can keep track of and I found that if I say and watched I could read things pretty well but the second I got involved I’d have to market myself out to contain losses.

The one tick drill isn’t meant as a strategy for actually trading and Pete is pretty clear on this, even when you talk to people who employ techniques similar to this it’s usually within a wider strategy. I found on a sim I could make it work to a degree but due to toxic fills, volatility and poor reading skills combined I personally would get chopped up.

I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I couldn’t do it. I spent a couple of weeks doing the observation skills and came out just trying to leg into momentum moved, this is what stands out naturally to me, but I still find it really hard in the ES, so I’ve headed back over to the bonds where I can keep up - although volatility there is good right now, although I’ve been considering looking into spread trading rather than outright s, truth be told though I feel I’d just be method hunting if I did that.

Don’t beat yourself up over it by the way - you’re DOM skills have probably improved massively through this even if you do decide to pursue an alternative strategy.

I’d be really interested to hear what Pete’s advice would be, I just tried tagging him here but not sure if it worked, maybe reach out to him. One thing I’d say is head over to the Jigsaw trading room and just ask, they really are a good bunch with vast experience in the ES and with the ladder - stick around and you’ll learn a ton, particularly when the market is quiet or at the end of trading when people can get into chatting about your query rather than having to focus mainly on trading.

Regards.

You are correct. Gary Norden does trade thinner markets than the ES. His 2nd book (And End to the Bull) is what lead me to want to become a scalper.

I'd love to see Pete's famous scalping video but I'd have to pay him another $349.00 for the Advanced Order Flow Training Pack and I'm just not sure it's worth that much to see that video.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to ALC77 for this post:
 
  #43 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Wiltshire, United Kingdom
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw daytradr
Favorite Futures: US Equity Index Futures
 
matthew28's Avatar
 
Posts: 694 since Sep 2013
Thanks: 1,359 given, 1,158 received



ALC77 View Post
I'd love to see Pete's famous scalping video but I'd have to pay him another $349.00 for the Advanced Order Flow Training Pack and I'm just not sure it's worth that much to see that video.

He might be talking about this one, or not. But worth watching if you haven't seen it as you are interested in scalping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqn_tG6STHY

Trading, ideally structured, is a vehicle for expanding consciousness, not damaging it. - Brett Steenbarger
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to matthew28 for this post:
 
  #44 (permalink)
Glasgow, Lanarkshire Scotland
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Jigsaw Daytradr
Broker/Data: Working my way around them all
Favorite Futures: ZN, ES
 
Posts: 52 since Apr 2016
Thanks: 57 given, 46 received

Matthew is correct - that's the video I mean. It's worth noting however that Pete isn't talking about scalping there he's talking about looking at correlated markets to trade the thinner markets.

There is another video here which is really useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJH-zli3AZk

I did buy the advanced course - it's good value I think having watched it a number of times, but the scalping video that is included is I think just another version of what is above, everything you need is in those two videos I think so don't feel you need the advanced course video JUST for the scalping video, it's good to have of course but the course has a number of other really worthwhile videos for when you feel ready for it.

With regards to Gary - I think an End To Bull is a fantastic book, I read it regularly. I remember him saying in a video with Pete he was "ok" at the Dax so I didn't realise he was trading it as much as he trades the FTSE. I've not tried either and probably won't to be honest.

My results from trading the One Tick Drill and subsequently the ES scalp are on journalytix, I've also recorded all my trades on video which I'll get around to sticking on there too at some point so happy to chat about it further if it helps.

Cheers.
Trambo

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to Trambo for this post:
 
  #45 (permalink)
North Carolina
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, Tradestation
Favorite Futures: es
 
Posts: 644 since Nov 2011

There are a lot of problems with your plan but the primary one is you have completely underestimated the difficulty of what you are trying to do.

You think you are doing something unique from other retailers but you have not developed any proprietary systems, specialized software, ways of viewing the market, or indicators.

I could go into deep into the myriad of technical reasons for why what are you are trying to do is difficult and how you are not prepared. However, I think it might be better to take a step back and evaluate where your strengths are. For example, why do you think this method can be profitable or should be profitable in the first place?

Reply With Quote
 
  #46 (permalink)
Corpus Christi, Tx
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: DDT / Rithmic / Kinetick
Favorite Futures: 6E, NQ
 
Posts: 69 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 3 given, 185 received

If you are trading for ticks you want an instrument that gives you the most ticks per time. This is not the ES. While the ES moves 3 ticks the NQ or YM will move 10 - 12 ticks. Not sure why you think there is an advantage in looking at the YM in order to trade the ES but if it is because it is easier for you to see what you think are opportunities in the YM, although there may be a timing correlation in the effort to push one way or another but there will certainly not be a bang for the buck correlation. If you can read the YM then trade the YM.

Most people who have been doing this for awhile will probably agree that achieving consistent profitability is the hardest road they have ever traveled. Watching You-Tube videos and buying fancy software is easy to do and because there is nothing easy about any of this, any impressions you have developed based on your experience so far are likely not going to serve you well over the long haul.... assuming there is a long haul... which statistics argue is not likely.

Because you are new at this and don't really know what you are doing it would be wise for you to question all of your assumptions. Why? Because you don't know what you are doing. The sooner you accept that the sooner you'll start to make progress. There are many journals on IO with novice traders going into great detail each day and speaking with authority about market minutia concerning Opens and Closes of the worlds markets, fiscal policy and of course Market Profile and Fib levels.... and they have a losing day, and week, and month...and then they blow away in the wind. Would you choose as a mentor someone who doesn't have more experience than you and has never traded profitably? Well, at this stage in however long this is going to last for you, whenever you make a trading decision that is exactly what you are doing. Acting on the opinion of someone who has yet to demonstrate they can make this work. And therein lies one of the reasons this is so difficult. How do you make progress then? You'll need more time and the funds that will be required than you expect. You need tenacity. You need luck. And you need to put into this every ounce of energy and commitment you can muster. When you are frustrated and feel like all that you are doing is beating you head against a brick wall then you should take heart because that indicates you are on the right road. It's not going to be easy.... what most novice traders fail to accept is that this also means it is going to be hard.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to glennts for this post:
 
  #47 (permalink)
Agoura Hills, CA USA
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation
Broker/Data: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: Futures & Equities
 
Posts: 23 since Apr 2019
Thanks: 3 given, 23 received


ALC77 View Post
I am attempting to scalp the ES for 1 tick at a time. I am using YM as a correlation to ES. I don't use charts at all. I am only using Jigsaw DOMs of ES and YM side by side (John Grady style) with a time and sales of the ES. I am trying to not be like the typical retail trader so that's why I am not using charts or indicators. I am trying to trade what I see right NOW like I hear so many successful people talk about. I have journaled and figured out my biggest problem, but I don't know how to solve it. I keep getting the direction wrong in the immediate term. I see it's going up with volume, I go long, get filled, and then much more often than not, I get ran over for 2+ ticks if I can't get out in time. What can I add or do different to make it over the hump with the biggest problem area for me? I know the YM is a great correlation but it moving much faster than ES makes it very difficult for me to keep it all in perspective. I'm getting tired of seeing red, day after day.



I would switch strategies and attempt to swing trade or at least hold all day. Intraday trading systems and super small targets generally do not backtest well or perform over a longer amount of time. Keep in mind one tick of profit doesn’t pay for slippage, commissions, and losing trades. Also, question the “common knowledge “ that rising volume is a bullish pattern.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to numberjuani for this post:
 
  #48 (permalink)
Indianapolis, IN
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Favorite Futures: ES & CL
 
Posts: 14 since Oct 2017
Thanks: 11 given, 14 received

PriceLadder and need more..


Trambo View Post
Matthew is correct - that's the video I mean. It's worth noting however that Pete isn't talking about scalping there he's talking about looking at correlated markets to trade the thinner markets.

There is another video here which is really useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJH-zli3AZk

I did buy the advanced course - it's good value I think having watched it a number of times, but the scalping video that is included is I think just another version of what is above, everything you need is in those two videos I think so don't feel you need the advanced course video JUST for the scalping video, it's good to have of course but the course has a number of other really worthwhile videos for when you feel ready for it.

With regards to Gary - I think an End To Bull is a fantastic book, I read it regularly. I remember him saying in a video with Pete he was "ok" at the Dax so I didn't realise he was trading it as much as he trades the FTSE. I've not tried either and probably won't to be honest.

My results from trading the One Tick Drill and subsequently the ES scalp are on journalytix, I've also recorded all my trades on video which I'll get around to sticking on there too at some point so happy to chat about it further if it helps.

Cheers.
Trambo



Good to find other JigS traders who took the advance course(which is the Price Ladder course by Alex through Axia Futures). All the Price Ladder videos are good. I have watched them couple of times, and it takes a while to sink in. A lot of screen time is required, it's one thing to watch and then follow their drills, takes serious amount of screen time. After putting in screen time and observing the ladder I still think it wasn't a complete process. Don't get me wrong, you learn a lot and that core learning is important to understand the markets and the interaction between buyers and sellers. But I think they didn't cover areas where to expect those plays to happen. Like the absorption, momentum breakouts, reversals, they start with 'We are watching this key area, and expecting a price rejection, and following the market velocity......' they never tell how to identify those key areas before the trading day begins.

Looking at their other courses where they have training around FootPrint charts and VolumeProfile might help complete the entire process. The other course seem to be expensive though.. so not really leaning towards spending that much. I was able to find a lot of free videos put out by them and get a good handle to use Foot Print while executing it on the Price Ladder.

This video helped in understanding the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5shoVj3igCQ

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to akuush for this post:
 
  #49 (permalink)
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker/Data: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 20 since Aug 2016
Thanks: 143 given, 40 received


ALC77 View Post
I am attempting to scalp the ES for 1 tick at a time. I am using YM as a correlation to ES. I don't use charts at all. I am only using Jigsaw DOMs of ES and YM side by side (John Grady style) with a time and sales of the ES. I am trying to not be like the typical retail trader so that's why I am not using charts or indicators. I am trying to trade what I see right NOW like I hear so many successful people talk about. I have journaled and figured out my biggest problem, but I don't know how to solve it. I keep getting the direction wrong in the immediate term. I see it's going up with volume, I go long, get filled, and then much more often than not, I get ran over for 2+ ticks if I can't get out in time. What can I add or do different to make it over the hump with the biggest problem area for me? I know the YM is a great correlation but it moving much faster than ES makes it very difficult for me to keep it all in perspective. I'm getting tired of seeing red, day after day.

A lot of great advice on this thread.

The first principle of trading is that you will have to figure out for yourself how you are going to trade that will fit your personality and risk tolerance etc. As everyone says, "it will take a lot longer than you think, and it will be a lot harder than you think". That doesn't mean you can't succeed, it will just be slow and hard.

I am attaching a simple break even analysis model in excel for you to play with. You will notice real quick that if you are going to target small tick wins you are putting yourself into a situation that you cannot make many errors in your trade decisions.

Best regards and good luck in your journey.

“The major work of the world is not done by geniuses. It is done by ordinary people, with balance in their lives, who have learned to work in an extraordinary manner.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley
Attached Files
Register to download File Type: xlsx Break Even and Profitability Analysis Model.xlsx (12.8 KB, 8 views)
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users say Thank You to mbondiett for this post:

Reply



futures io > > > > Scalping ES, need help

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Upcoming Webinars and Events (4:30PM ET unless noted)
 

futures io is celebrating 10-years w/ over $18,000 in prizes!

Right now
 

$1,000 in Amazon Gift Cards being given away right now from GFF Brokers

Right now
 

$250 Amazon Gift Cards with our "Thanks Contest" challenge!

Right now
 

Show us your trading desks and win over $5,000 in prizes w/Jigsaw Trading

August
 

Webinar: Suri Duddella (TBA)

Elite only
 

Webinar: Richard Bailey (TBA)

Elite only
     

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Custom Scalping strategy - Need help sairamss Hire a Consultant or Programmer 0 June 7th, 2019 12:31 PM
Scalping in paper trade mode TO EASY?! I need the opinion of an established trader. donovanshane Traders Hideout 49 January 12th, 2015 08:45 AM
Need Some Advice about Scalping ES chemfan76 Emini and Emicro Index Futures Trading 13 April 16th, 2014 08:28 PM
I need some simple set ups or "rules" on scalping, for a poker player turned trader donovanshane Commodities Futures Trading 12 April 29th, 2013 08:41 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:13 AM. (this page content is cached, log in for real-time version)

Copyright © 2019 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts