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Broadening Horizon
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Broadening Horizon

  #1 (permalink)
Wiltz, Luxembourg
Posts: 11 since Jun 2019
Thanks: 11 given, 9 received

Broadening Horizon

Hello everyone ,

When I first started out, an experienced trader advised me to stay away from indicators if I'm serious about my trading - and I haven't looked at them since for past 3 years at all . (I only have volume profile & footprint in my trading station , if they count as indicators)

Not only did I myself stayed away from lagging indicators , but I'd look down on others' indicator practices too . Recently I've been realizing that my closed mindedness so far may have cost me missed opportunities .

Sometime ago a trading buddy told me to test a indicator based system . I didn't take it seriously by my skeptic nature , but didn't want to be impolite to his face either so said I'd give it a try sometime . It was sitting on my pc for a while & one day out of curiosity - decided to give it a try .

To my surprise it held it's ground , I've tested it over ES & CL so far because that's what I primarily trade - and results have been good . My usual trading involves a lot of tiny observations & ongoing analysis , I'm somewhat impressed by the beauty & simplicity it can provide to the nature of trading . It has rules when to stop trading the system in market & also a tweak on functionality , I believe the creator was aware of indicators' inherent lagging nature .

I'm realizing maybe I've lost money because of my closed mindedness so far . I want to be more open minded to their study & application from now on . My understanding is - grasping any indicator's nature properly & adhering to certain strict rules, one might make an indicator based system work after all. If one such can exist , probably there're others out there too .

Now I'm interested in studying & learning as much as I can about designing indicator based systems & knowing about their nature so to be able to design something to offset their inherent shortcomings . Any suggested list for study would be much appreciated .

I don't know how the likes of Kevin Davey or algo firms design a system - if somebody can shed some light on whether I should go for his courses that'd be helpful in deciding further course of action .

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  #3 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Chicago Illinois USA
Trading Experience: Advanced
Broker/Data: IB, ToS
Favorite Futures: /ES, US Equities/Options
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The initial advice from your friend may not have been all bad. Perhaps slightly limiting due to strict context, but not totally incorrect.

ALL the pretty images, from the simple to the complex, that people display on their charts are derived from the same six data points. Four of those data points are, high, low and close. Volume and time being the only non price data. Price is KING. To that extent your friend is/was right.

Most people are visually oriented. Thus, there is a huge appeal to create, believe and follow beautiful images...they look almost magical at times.

My advice to you is to stay grounded in the current beliefs about price and make small explorations into "indicators". Do NOT consider algorithmic trading, ever. Make ridiculously small intellectual inquiries about individual visual applications. MOST all correctly designed low latency algo type systems are a confluence or a hierarchy of non-colinear indicator applications. Non-colinear means not generated by the same "math" data points. Indicators are generally created to show possible perceived RELATIONSHIPS between price, volume, volatility, momentum, and time. Some people can demonstrate verifiable "edge" based on these derivative views....but many are simply full of shit.

A reasonable "method" might start squarely with whatever price evaluation you currently use. this level, I'd consider selling. Price is KING. So second might be a volume indication. Is there measurable changes that say something is happening with the relationship between price and volume? Volatility, Momentum, and Time would be a few of the other possible considerations.

Slow and certain are the guide words.

All the best.


Valid indicators CAN be a tool to help evaluate buy/sell decisions, but as routinely considered they are often an emotional or psychological trap.

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