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Emini S & P 500 Intraday Trading Hours and Margin etc.


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Emini S & P 500 Intraday Trading Hours and Margin etc.

  #1 (permalink)
hifromeddie
San Francisco California
 
Posts: 13 since Aug 2014
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When brokers talk about intraday margin for trading the Emini S & P (ES)...exactly when is Intraday?

I realize that ES has hours from 5pm EST to 4:15pm EST...then there is a 45 minute break.

Is 5pm - 4:15pm (EST) considered "Intraday" where Intraday margins can be used?

Or are Intraday hours something else?

And if someone holds a trade overnight where they need the initial and maintenance margin is that speaking about having trades still opened when the 45 minute break arrives?

For example, at the time of writing this the initial margin for ES is $5060, and the maintenance margin is $4600.

If the broker, for example, is allowing $1295 intraday margin does this mean anytime between 5:00 pm EST - 4:15 EST the ES contracts can be opened at $1295 per contract?

But if not everything is closed before 4:15 pm each contract (that is still open at break time) will need the $5060 initial margin per still opened contract?

Am I understanding this correctly...or am I getting it wrong? I could not find enough info on the internet for the intraday hours to make sense to me .

Finally, I realize various brokers offer different Intraday margins.

But do some brokers keep the margins for ES (for example) at $5060 initial and $4600 maintenance during all hours (overnight and intraday)?

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  #3 (permalink)
 PeakGrowth 
Sydney, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, IRESS
Broker: IB, IQFeed
Trading: ES, SPI, ASX stocks, options
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https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/?f=margin&p=fut1

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  #4 (permalink)
hifromeddie
San Francisco California
 
Posts: 13 since Aug 2014
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Hi PeakGrowth...some of what was on that page answered my question (it said that "Each day at 15 minutes before the close of the normal trading session for a product, margin requirements will revert back to the 100% requirement until the opening of normal trading hours the next day.")

But when is the opening of the normal trading hours the next day? It isn't 5 pm (45 minute later)?

I guess I was thrown off when I emailed one broker who told me intraday hours apply to the hours between 5 pm - 4:15 pm (EST) when I was thinking intraday hours were between 8:30 am EST and 4:15 EST...but he said no.

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  #5 (permalink)
 
mattz's Avatar
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hifromeddie View Post
Hi PeakGrowth...some of what was on that page answered my question (it said that "Each day at 15 minutes before the close of the normal trading session for a product, margin requirements will revert back to the 100% requirement until the opening of normal trading hours the next day.")

But when is the opening of the normal trading hours the next day? It isn't 5 pm (45 minute later)?

I guess I was thrown off when I emailed one broker who told me intraday hours apply to the hours between 5 pm - 4:15 pm (EST) when I was thinking intraday hours were between 8:30 am EST and 4:15 EST...but he said no.

Maybe he meant from 5PM until 4.15 the next day.
Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #6 (permalink)
hifromeddie
San Francisco California
 
Posts: 13 since Aug 2014
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Yes, he was speaking about 5 pm - 4:15 pm the next day as being Intraday hours, and he told me the only time the full 100% margin applies is if a trade is still open when the 4:15 break arrives.

I was thinking the full 100% rate applies during the entire overnight hours until the morning (EST).

But he said no.

So I didn't know if that was only unique to that broker or if all brokers do it that way.

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  #7 (permalink)
 
mattz's Avatar
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hifromeddie View Post
Yes, he was speaking about 5 pm - 4:15 pm the next day as being Intraday hours, and he told me the only time the full 100% margin applies is if a trade is still open when the 4:15 break arrives.

I was thinking the full 100% rate applies during the entire overnight hours until the morning (EST).

But he said no.

So I didn't know if that was only unique to that broker or if all brokers do it that way.

Brokers may very from 4.15 PM EST (or earlier) to 5 EST as far as what they consider end of day trading.
However, if you keep the ES past 5 o'clock EST, then you are subject to the exchange's initial margins.
Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
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  #8 (permalink)
 PeakGrowth 
Sydney, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, IRESS
Broker: IB, IQFeed
Trading: ES, SPI, ASX stocks, options
Posts: 399 since Jun 2015
Thanks Given: 169
Thanks Received: 465


hifromeddie View Post
Yes, he was speaking about 5 pm - 4:15 pm the next day as being Intraday hours, and he told me the only time the full 100% margin applies is if a trade is still open when the 4:15 break arrives.

I was thinking the full 100% rate applies during the entire overnight hours until the morning (EST).

But he said no.

So I didn't know if that was only unique to that broker or if all brokers do it that way.

I believe it's only for that break from what the IB page is saying - however, I trade ETH and seem to be always paying 100% margin for some reason. Though I never really cared because I always have my margin covered more than two fold when I am at my max position size.

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  #9 (permalink)
hifromeddie
San Francisco California
 
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mattz View Post
Brokers may very from 4.15 PM EST (or earlier) to 5 EST as far as what they consider end of day trading.
However, if you keep the ES past 5 o'clock EST, then you are subject to the exchange's initial margins.

I see, but if I open a new ES trade after 5 pm the trade is not subject to initial margins? (That's part of what I am trying to figure out).

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  #10 (permalink)
 
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hifromeddie View Post
I see, but if I open a new ES trade after 5 pm the trade is not subject to initial margins? (That's part of what I am trying to figure out).

Between 5 and 6 EST, the ES market is closed.
So you should open it after 6 Clock and close by the broker's proposed time the next day to be considered a day trade.
Keep in mind that I am a broker in EST time zone, someone from Chicago may quote in CST time.

Matt
Optimus Futures

There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
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