NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one trendisyourfriend with 4 posts (0 thanks)
    2. looks_two bojangle with 3 posts (1 thanks)
    3. looks_3 forrestang with 3 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Big Mike with 2 posts (0 thanks)
    1. trending_up 14,526 views
    2. thumb_up 2 thanks given
    3. group 5 followers
    1. forum 18 posts
    2. attach_file 0 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?

  #11 (permalink)
 
Lornz's Avatar
 Lornz 
Oslo, Norway
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Trading: CL
Posts: 1,193 since Apr 2010


trendisyourfriend View Post
I would guess many are following this path of tracking HH HL's and LL LH's as they are easily recognizable. This is a pattern that stands out. But if your common sense tells you 50% is probably near reality then the prospect of making at least 2:1 in terms of risk/reward is pretty slim and subject to some variance. Is there a better way to track price without this constraint ?

Well, only the LOD and HOD are the same for everyone... HH/HL & LL/LH are quite different on time/tick/range/volume charts....

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
NT7 Indicator Script Troubleshooting - Camarilla Pivots
NinjaTrader
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Diary of a simple price action trader
26 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
25 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
22 thanks
My NQ Trading Journal
16 thanks
HumbleTraders next chapter
9 thanks
  #12 (permalink)
 
forrestang's Avatar
 forrestang 
Chicago IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja, MT4, Matlab
Broker: CQG, AMP, MB, DTN
Trading: E/U, G/U
Posts: 1,329 since Jun 2010
Thanks Given: 354
Thanks Received: 1,047


Lornz View Post
Well, only the LOD and HOD are the same for everyone... HH/HL & LL/LH are quite different on time/price/volume charts....

True. I think if one can come up with a way to specifically define the TimeFrame of that HH/LL, then it would be easier to track.

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)
 
Lornz's Avatar
 Lornz 
Oslo, Norway
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CQG, Excel
Trading: CL
Posts: 1,193 since Apr 2010



forrestang View Post
True. I think if one can come up with a way to specifically define the TimeFrame of that HH/LL, then it would be easier to track.

That's why I prefer to use charts based on price ranges, easier to spot reversals etc..

Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)
 
zer0's Avatar
 zer0 
Chicago, IL/USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: CTS T4/Sierra Chart
Trading: Futures
Posts: 139 since Jun 2011
Thanks Given: 49
Thanks Received: 205

Agree. Range bars provide a much cleaner and clearer view of your market.


Lornz View Post
That's why I prefer to use charts based on price ranges, easier to spot reversals etc..


Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)
 cpi65 
UK
 
Experience: None
Platform: -
Posts: 154 since Aug 2010
Thanks Given: 12
Thanks Received: 75


trendisyourfriend View Post
Is looking at HH HL's or LL LH's a good way to define market structure ?

I look at HH's or LL's as a probe to test if the current value area still hold but without the overall context of what is the fair price of the moment these HH's or LL's on any given timeframe appear to produce unreliable signals. What do you think ? are there any statistics to back this, i mean if a HH is made have we more chance to see another HH or is it just 50/50 ?

here's a tip;

Under normal market conditions, using HH's / HL's / LL's / LH's in the conventional sense is going to cause you more problems than it solves. In ordinary conditions, try looking for unconventional price action as a framework for your trades. A simple explanation behind this is that swing highs/lows, and what type of orders will be resting there (if any), are easy to spot - and order clusters act like a magnet for price if underlying conditions are static.

In extra-ordinary market conditions, like for example these past two days, conventional price action can work very well. An even simpler explanation behind this is that when the sh!t is hitting the fan, the natural reaction of most short term speculators is to sit on the sidelines... "it's too choppy", or "I'll wait until the reaction is over", whatever. In these circumstances, conventional price action often yields excellent rewards.


so:

ordinary conditions => unconventional price action
extraordinary conditions => conventional price action

hth

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)
 
TheSeeker's Avatar
 TheSeeker 
Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: MT4, StrategyRunner
Trading: ES,EUR/USD,Oil
Posts: 127 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 81
Thanks Received: 73

Looking for "unconventional price action" ... can you be more specific ?

I think that looking for the typical HH+HL respective LL+LH sequence to define trend makes a lot of sense, however, I'd always make sure that price has balanced a bit before a new sequence starts.

Cjbooth's 6E method is all about that stuff, I believe.

Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)
 cpi65 
UK
 
Experience: None
Platform: -
Posts: 154 since Aug 2010
Thanks Given: 12
Thanks Received: 75


TheSeeker View Post
Looking for "unconventional price action" ... can you be more specific ?

I think that looking for the typical HH+HL respective LL+LH sequence to define trend makes a lot of sense, however, I'd always make sure that price has balanced a bit before a new sequence starts.

Cjbooth's 6E method is all about that stuff, I believe.

unconventional => the opposite to conventional wisdom.

sorry I can't be any more explicit.

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)
 bojangle 
NYC, NY
 
Trading: ES
Posts: 161 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 30
Thanks Received: 46


trendisyourfriend View Post
That's a good point as not all HH or LL are equals. But how do you define the context ?

context is where price is in relation to where it's been. looking at price now within the picture of where it's been. determining the important, key areas to those timeframes and trading at them and in-between them, reading the strength/weakness of the market, coming up with ideas to trade.

looking at higher time frames and plotting key levels to them - making a roadmap for intraday trading - and trading in a smaller timeframe within that picture.

i trade the 100k volume chart and the 405 min using the 10k volume chart, at important levels to the higher timeframes. but i also trade in-between these timeframe's areas using volume profile s/r + 10k reference (HHs, HL, etc.).

say if price is in a downtrend in the 100k, the market just hit an important support and price is now heading higher, if there is a good chance of price hitting a level that is 7 points higher, then i know that longs have higher probabilities until that level is hit. BUT the 10k could start to show that sellers are coming in by not making higher-highs anymore... doesn't mean it will go down, but it means that sellers are active enough to stop the HH pattern and the market could turn, failing to hit that targeted level, displaying weakness in buying power. that topping action in the 10k would be the equivalent of a turn in the 100k. what pattern IT COULD be making in the 100k, i use that for a trade idea - this is trading price in relation to where it has been, what it has done.


i don't think it's possible to trade one timeframe (this is what i'm calling it, but i'm sure there are many names for it).


i think people say AHG doesn't work, like they say all systems don't work, because they don't understand that it is never a guarantee, never certain. you got to cut the losers short and allow the winners to run. i'm never going to have 100% accuracy and neither will anyone else... it's impossible. you can't enter when a bar's close is above the previous bar's high... you're taking too much risk.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #19 (permalink)
 bojangle 
NYC, NY
 
Trading: ES
Posts: 161 since Feb 2010
Thanks Given: 30
Thanks Received: 46


bojangle View Post
i don't think it's possible to trade one timeframe (this is what i'm calling it, but i'm sure there are many names for it).

i'm wrong in saying this. it is possible, but i would be significantly reducing the probabilities i could easily have on my side if i were trading within the context of higher timeframe action. it's about probabilities.

Reply With Quote




Last Updated on August 7, 2011


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts