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M6E and volume for beginners
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M6E and volume for beginners

  #1 (permalink)
Elite Member
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M6E and volume for beginners

Hello everyone,
My plan was to start scalping futures with M6E due to the smaller $ amount per tick so I don't blow up my account (at least not as quickly ). I definitely want to size my risk based on my account size and control my emotions. But the volume seems dead compared to ES or NQ.

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/e-micros/e-micro-euro.html

Only 15k contracts today on September period (almost nothing on December).

I don't expect it to be as liquid as ES, but I am not sure if this is even suitable for scalping. Am I missing something?

Should I be focusing on Forex micro lots instead? For me that would mean using a different platform and Forex instead of futures.

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  #3 (permalink)
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MaxT View Post
Hello everyone,
My plan was to start scalping futures with M6E due to the smaller $ amount per tick so I don't blow up my account (at least not as quickly ). I definitely want to size my risk based on my account size and control my emotions. But the volume seems dead compared to ES or NQ.

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/e-micros/e-micro-euro.html

Only 15k contracts today on September period (almost nothing on December).

I don't expect it to be as liquid as ES, but I am not sure if this is even suitable for scalping. Am I missing something?

Should I be focusing on Forex micro lots instead? For me that would mean using a different platform and Forex instead of futures.

DO NOT TRY AND SCALP M6E. I trade it very often. It will not work. One reason you didn't mention is commission cost vs tick size means a breakeven on M6E is 5-6 ticks. Also the lack of vol will make it hard to exit where you intend.

I trade M6E on a weekly timeframe. Therefor a few ticks of slippage doesn't matter. If you try to scalp M6E you could easily lose every trade just because you won't get filled where you intend.

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  #4 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
DO NOT TRY AND SCALP M6E. I trade it very often. It will not work. One reason you didn't mention is commission cost vs tick size means a breakeven on M6E is 5-6 ticks. Also the lack of vol will make it hard to exit where you intend.

I trade M6E on a weekly timeframe. Therefor a few ticks of slippage doesn't matter. If you try to scalp M6E you could easily lose every trade just because you won't get filled where you intend.

Makes sense. I guess that volume is typical for M6E. I didn't realize it wasn't suitable for scalping.
Guess I'll have to practice with Forex micro lots.

Thank you for the information!

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  #5 (permalink)
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MaxT View Post
Makes sense. I guess that volume is typical for M6E. I didn't realize it wasn't suitable for scalping.
Guess I'll have to practice with Forex micro lots.

Thank you for the information!

M6E is perfect for if you want to learn how to trade on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Because the cost and margins are so small I found it easier to take and hold a trade longer.

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  #6 (permalink)
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tturner86 View Post
M6E is perfect for if you want to learn how to trade on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. Because the cost and margins are so small I found it easier to take and hold a trade longer.

Got it. Great info! Thanks!

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  #7 (permalink)
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MaxT View Post
Guess I'll have to practice with Forex micro lots.

I've never traded spot but I suspect that the micro lots will also have relatively similar spread widths as the various futures products. And why make the hassle of opening another book? I would suggest that its possible to adapt most futures strategies from one product to the next. Run your numbers and include the aforementioned commish ratio and an estimated slip. You can increase the risk and reward ranges with the smaller leverage, and then see what the commish and slip expense looks like in the larger range. Slip estimates should be approx twice as large for stop orders. Think in terms of converting a 1-2 tick slip expectancy on the full size to a proportional value on the micro.

Also, you can use the 6E chart and volume for planning trades. They exhibit a tight correlation in most conditions, but be careful at news time. Use the DOM to get a read on the micro's spread. Not just the width, but excursion of the bid ask in relation to the full size product. And use charts that plot bid, ask and mark to get a feel for it.

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i can't think of any benefit m6e gives over spot forex. However, there is a benefit to trading 6e if you have a large enough account size.

6e benefits are the commission to pip ratio which is pretty much 1 pip (tick) for commission and you get to do volume analysis. Both of those benefits aren't really present with m6e considering the spread and lack of volume.

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  #9 (permalink)
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Itchymoku View Post
i can't think of any benefit m6e gives over spot forex. However, there is a benefit to trading 6e if you have a large enough account size.

6e benefits are the commission to pip ratio which is pretty much 1 pip (tick) for commission and you get to do volume analysis. Both of those benefits aren't really present with m6e considering the spread and lack of volume.

fwiw, and if I'm not mistaken, as I don't deal with spot fx, the tax treatment of spot forex profits is different from futures. You pay additional Social Security /self employment tax on Spot FX (on top of the regular profit tax), and only 60/40 on futures.
JB

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Jaba View Post
the tax treatment of spot forex profits is different from futures. You pay additional Social Security /self employment tax on Spot FX (on top of the regular profit tax), and only 60/40 on futures.

Please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but it varies greatly from country to country (I mention it only because this is such an international forum): over here, forex (and other) trading is entirely tax-free - no income tax and no capital gains tax - if it's done via spreadbetting. Which makes a huge difference to us, of course.

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