Bob Volman - Price Action Scalping - futures io
futures io futures trading



Bob Volman - Price Action Scalping


Discussion in Currencies

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one kevinkdog with 14 posts (35 thanks)
    2. looks_two WilleeMac with 13 posts (4 thanks)
    3. looks_3 mwtzzz with 11 posts (14 thanks)
    4. looks_4 trendisyourfriend with 7 posts (4 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one trs3042 with 15.0 thanks per post
    2. looks_two Big Mike with 7.0 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 kevinkdog with 2.5 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 mwtzzz with 1.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 110,640 views
    2. thumb_up 175 thanks given
    3. group 73 followers
    1. forum 118 posts
    2. attach_file 11 attachments




Welcome to futures io: the largest futures trading community on the planet, with well over 125,000 members
  • Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
  • Quality education from leading professional traders
  • We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
  • We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
  • We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community.  It's free and simple.

-- Big Mike, Site Administrator

(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)

 
Search this Thread
 

Bob Volman - Price Action Scalping

(login for full post details)
  #1 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received

I recently picked up the book:

"Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

by Bob Volman.


I'm curious - is there anyone out there using his approach with success (or without success)?


Thanks

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on futures io?
Select custom session template not working
TradeStation
About MC Backtesting Features - Limit Order Fills, Bar Magnifier and IOG
MultiCharts
Does anyone have a cme bulletin eod data for 2018-2020?
Commodities
Polygonio developers and reviews
Trading Reviews and Vendors
S&P 500 from 1789 until today: free data
Emini and Emicro Index
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on futures io
Big Mike in Ecuador
127 thanks
How did you learn to trade?
108 thanks
2020 profit and loss results
40 thanks
The Small Exchange (www.smallexchange.com)
27 thanks
Coronavirus COVID-19
26 thanks
 
(login for full post details)
  #3 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,324 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,007 given, 96,501 received



kevinkdog View Post
I recently picked up the book:

"Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

by Bob Volman.


I'm curious - is there anyone out there using his approach with success (or without success)?


Thanks

Thanks for creating the thread.

I know several people that use his method and are very happy with it. I talked to him a few times to try to get him to do a webinar on futures.io (formerly BMT), but was unable to convince him to do so. He wanted to maintain a low profile. Perhaps one day that will change, and we can educate more people on his methods.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 12 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #4 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received

Thanks Mike. That is good info to know, and makes me more inclined to spend time with his approach.

With any method, I am sure, what you eventually get out of it depends a great deal on how much time you put into it.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #5 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: FUTURES:Anything Fast Paced
 
Posts: 26 since Aug 2012
Thanks: 4 given, 13 received

Hi,

Please keep us informed and if you think the book is a good buy

A summary would be useful too.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #6 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


kingk View Post
Hi,

Please keep us informed and if you think the book is a good buy

A summary would be useful too.

kingk -

Based on what I've read so far (most of the book at least once, some parts twice), it is a very good trading book. He trades the EURUSD pair with a 70 tick chart. 7 unique setups.

I think the key in getting those setups to work is in identifying what Volman calls "unfavorable conditions," and avoiding trades during those times.

My guess is at least 3-6 months of heavy practice is needed to see the possibilities of this method, which is why I was curious if anyone uses the method. Why waste time if it doesn't work? Big Mike says people are successful with it, so that is encouraging for me.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #7 (permalink)
Zurich Switzerland
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: IB
Trading: ES, 6E, CL
 
Posts: 404 since Sep 2009
Thanks: 64 given, 515 received

A summary of the book.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to terratec for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #8 (permalink)
Hong Kong
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Stocks
 
Posts: 32 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 24 given, 4 received

I read the introduction of this book seems it is another book which talk about the price action.
I got Al Brooks's trading book series, just want to know any different in between their method?

Since I got Al Brook's books, is it worth to buy Bob Volman's book as well?

Visit my Facebook Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #9 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


rienno View Post
I read the introduction of this book seems it is another book which talk about the price action.
I got Al Brooks's trading book series, just want to know any different in between their method?

Since I got Al Brook's books, is it worth to buy Bob Volman's book as well?


Similar to Al's first book, but simpler. Much easier to read. Volman focuses on 70 tick bars for EURUSD, while Al favors the 5 minute ES. But, to me the setups are the important thing, regardless of timeframe or market.

Al's method seems a lot more complicated, with many more setups, conditions, etc. Whether the extra complexity is justified, I don't know. Personally, I like simplicity, so overall I favor Volman more.

I think if you studied either book, and worked hard to become proficient, you could probably succeed with either approach. A lot of screen time required, I am sure.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #10 (permalink)
Holland, Michigan
 
Experience: None
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: CQG
Trading: Acoustic Guitar
 
trs3042's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,617 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 23,764 given, 5,614 received


More excerpts from Bob Volman's book "Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

https://infofpas.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/excerpts-fpas-hr-3-6-121.pdf

Enjoy,

Rick

"If you're going to panic during a trade............. panic early."
Reply With Quote
The following 15 users say Thank You to trs3042 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #11 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Broker: TD Ameritrade, Dorman/Zenfire
Trading: CL,ES
 
VinceVirgil's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,752 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2,144 given, 9,218 received


kevinkdog View Post
I recently picked up the book:

"Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

by Bob Volman.


I'm curious - is there anyone out there using his approach with success (or without success)?


Thanks

Very good thread.

Look forward to seeing more.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to VinceVirgil for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #12 (permalink)
Toronto, Canada
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT
Broker: TD Ameritrade, Dorman/Zenfire
Trading: CL,ES
 
VinceVirgil's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,752 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 2,144 given, 9,218 received


kevinkdog View Post
kingk -

Based on what I've read so far (most of the book at least once, some parts twice), it is a very good trading book. He trades the EURUSD pair with a 70 tick chart. 7 unique setups.

I think the key in getting those setups to work is in identifying what Volman calls "unfavorable conditions," and avoiding trades during those times.

My guess is at least 3-6 months of heavy practice is needed to see the possibilities of this method, which is why I was curious if anyone uses the method. Why waste time if it doesn't work? Big Mike says people are successful with it, so that is encouraging for me.

I dont use his method, per se, however, I use Al Brooks as referrence for many of my setups on the CL, and Volmans explanation on price action shares many similarities, tho he uses different terms and trades the EUR/USD.

Follow me on Twitter Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to VinceVirgil for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #13 (permalink)
Alexandria, VA
 
 
Posts: 17 since Jun 2012
Thanks: 33 given, 18 received

I was actually looking into this method last night based on a recommendation in my journal and will be ordering the book soon.

Does anybody know how this would translate to EUR/USD futures (6E). Would the 70 tick chart still be used?

Looking at TOS, the smallest tick chart they have as a default option is 133. I haven't dug deeper to see if there is a way to get to a 70 tick chart on the 6E manually.

Thanks.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #14 (permalink)
Raleigh, NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Interactive Brokers + Kinetick
Trading: CL/GC
 
Posts: 21 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 17 received


MisterGopher View Post
I was actually looking into this method last night based on a recommendation in my journal and will be ordering the book soon.

Does anybody know how this would translate to EUR/USD futures (6E). Would the 70 tick chart still be used?

Looking at TOS, the smallest tick chart they have as a default option is 133. I haven't dug deeper to see if there is a way to get to a 70 tick chart on the 6E manually.

Thanks.

Bob Volman uses ProRealTime.com for charting, and claims that during the most liquid hours the 70 tick chart is approximately equivalent to 30 second chart (120 bars per hour). I started counting the number of bars in each hour since last week (I only count bars between 8am and 12 noon EST, the London/NY overlap) and I found that 9-11 seems to have the most number of bars last week:

Monday 10/15 9-10 (84 bars), 10-11 (94 bars)
Tuesday 10/16 9-10 (92 bars), 10-11 (107 bars)
Wednesday 10/17 9-10 (112 bars), 10-11 (106 bars)
Thursday 10/18 9-10 (85 bars), 10-11 (112 bars)
Friday 10/19 9-10 (106 bars), 10-11 (118 bars)

You can get a free 7 day trial from ProRealTime and compare your (x)-tick 6E charts with its 70 tick charts. Good luck,

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to chaching for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #15 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,324 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,007 given, 96,501 received

It is my understanding the chart size is mostly irrelevant. Trade the size most appropriate for your account and your personal trading style, setups should remain the same on any time frame.

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #16 (permalink)
Altamonte Springs,FL
 
 
Posts: 72 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 481 given, 231 received

The key to understanding the language of the markets is "Price Action"..........

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6E 12-12 (2000 Tick)  10_25_2012.jpg
Views:	1025
Size:	145.5 KB
ID:	92972  
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #17 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader, TOS
Broker: Mirus/ZF
Trading: Currencies, ES
 
zcui's Avatar
 
Posts: 22 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 17 given, 23 received


MisterGopher View Post
Does anybody know how this would translate to EUR/USD futures (6E). Would the 70 tick chart still be used?

I asked him about this before, and here's what he said:
".....If you want to trade the CME then just experiment until you come up with a tick number that looks doable and produces bars of around 2-4 pip in height on average. The 70 tick in my book is nothing more than a nice setting to work with. Recently, I have had many feed back from traders who are doing just fine applying the principles from the book on a 1 minute chart, even on the 3 and 5. The trick is to produce a chart that overall shows nice setups, ranges, trends and pullbacks on an intraday basis, and that also aligns with your psychological make-up. ..."

I didn't have much success with his method. However, every time I asked him any question, I got quick replies and most of them were often 5+ paragraphs long with very detailed explanation. He really tries to help others, and I really appreciate it.

Reply With Quote
The following 9 users say Thank You to zcui for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #18 (permalink)
NC, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: None Yet
Trading: Guitar
 
MrYou's Avatar
 
Posts: 403 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 618 given, 196 received

Any updates from anyone trying his setups?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #19 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received

Not yet, but my plan is to give it a go.
I let the style and I think it's doable but only if I can control myself.

Regards,
Neil.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #20 (permalink)
Tulsa, OK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Jigsaw, Ninja Trader, Sierra Chart
Broker: Ninjatrader/Rithmic
Trading: G&L Tribute Series Rampage
 
omni72's Avatar
 
Posts: 348 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 582 given, 618 received


kevinkdog View Post
kingk -

Based on what I've read so far (most of the book at least once, some parts twice), it is a very good trading book. He trades the EURUSD pair with a 70 tick chart. 7 unique setups.

I think the key in getting those setups to work is in identifying what Volman calls "unfavorable conditions," and avoiding trades during those times.

My guess is at least 3-6 months of heavy practice is needed to see the possibilities of this method, which is why I was curious if anyone uses the method. Why waste time if it doesn't work? Big Mike says people are successful with it, so that is encouraging for me.

Hi @kevinkdog -

Any updates? I ordered the book the other day (intrigued by the low TF and simplicity of the charting described), and was curious about your impressions.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. ~ Seneca
Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #21 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received

I have not pursued his method too much lately. I think some of his concepts are likely sound, but in limited testing I could not find anything that satisfied me.

I may try to incorporate some of his stuff in other projects I am working on (for example, the whole "buy pullback" principle seems to be good), but I doubt I'll ever follow his method exactly.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #22 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post
I recently picked up the book:

"Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

by Bob Volman.

I'm curious - is there anyone out there using his approach with success (or without success)?

Thanks

I use similar (discretionary) methods in crude oil futures. I don't see why implementing one or two of Volman's methods should not work for you. You have to realize that type of strategy pans out over the long term: individual wins or losses don't matter much. What matters is the cumulative effect over time and this cannot be measured in terms of a small number of trades. You will only see the results coming to fruition after many trades. As long as you are accepting of that, it is a perfectly valid way to trade. It is in fact the way that I trade.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to mwtzzz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #23 (permalink)
NC, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: None Yet
Trading: Guitar
 
MrYou's Avatar
 
Posts: 403 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 618 given, 196 received

To add some context, kevinkdog may be referring to implementing the methods for automated trading. Which, from what I understand, automating price action trading methods can be a difficult task.

But I am in the middle of reading this book and so far I like it. Very easy to read and understand. For me its doing a good job of explaining the mystery behind reading price action activity on a chart. With practice I think his setups would be useful for a beginner.

Definitely recommended.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #24 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


MrYou View Post
To add some context, kevinkdog may be referring to implementing the methods for automated trading. Which, from what I understand, automating price action trading methods can be a difficult task.

But I am in the middle of reading this book and so far I like it. Very easy to read and understand. For me its doing a good job of explaining the mystery behind reading price action activity on a chart. With practice I think his setups would be useful for a beginner.

Definitely recommended.


It would not matter to me if it was discretionary or rule based/automated. I'd just have to prove to myself that the methods provided a tangible edge / positive expectancy. I haven't been able to do that...yet.

edit: I'm the kind of person who tests everything, regardless of source. I believe nothing until I test and evaluate it to my satisfaction. Probably many people are satisfied with Volman's explanations in his book, without any additional need for proof. Different strokes for different folks...

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 6 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #25 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post
It would not matter to me if it was discretionary or rule based/automated. I'd just have to prove to myself that the methods provided a tangible edge / positive expectancy. I haven't been able to do that...yet.

It can be done. But only over a large number of trades. On the order of 100 round turns is a good start. The more you do, the more you will see the actual results start to form an expected curve.

It's like in math you have convergent series. A convergent series will approach a number or a curve, but you'll only be able to see it the more iterations you look at. (however, in math you can prove a series, but in trading there is no way to know what the curve will look like - it's entirely empirical.)

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to mwtzzz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #26 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


kevinkdog View Post
It would not matter to me if it was discretionary or rule based/automated. I'd just have to prove to myself that the methods provided a tangible edge / positive expectancy. I haven't been able to do that...yet.

edit: I'm the kind of person who tests everything, regardless of source. I believe nothing until I test and evaluate it to my satisfaction. Probably many people are satisfied with Volman's explanations in his book, without any additional need for proof. Different strokes for different folks...

What does your "i haven't been able to do that...yet" mean exactly? That you have not had enough time to test it or despite some preliminary tests you are not convinced there is an edge to be gained with this approach?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #27 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
What does your "i haven't been able to do that...yet" mean exactly? That you have not had enough time to test it or despite some preliminary tests you are not convinced there is an edge to be gained with this approach?

Definitely some of both. I haven't been able to test things completely, and the preliminary tests I did run didn't show me much.

But, a lot of any discretionary method depends on context ("always take the 2nd pullback, oh except when A or B or occasionally C occurs"), and it is cumbersome to try to program all these contingencies.

So, for me the jury is still out. But that's just me.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #28 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post
Definitely some of both. I haven't been able to test things completely, and the preliminary tests I did run didn't show me much.

Can you provide statistics?

total number of trades:
number of wins:
number of losses:
max drawdown:

Since Volman's method uses a predefined profit and loss, I'm assuming each of your wins is the same dollar amount, as are each of your losses. Otherwise if you could include those stats as well?....

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #29 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


mwtzzz View Post
Can you provide statistics?

total number of trades:
number of wins:
number of losses:
max drawdown:

Since Volman's method uses a predefined profit and loss, I'm assuming each of your wins is the same dollar amount, as are each of your losses. Otherwise if you could include those stats as well?....


Since I did not test exactly what Volman puts forth in his book (for example, I did not use 70 tick charts [only 6 months of that data available in Tradestation], I tested with Euro futures, not Euro forex [testing with forex gets tricky with bid data stream and limit/stop orders], I have to, in fairness to the author, refrain from showing my preliminary results.

If I ever test exactly what Volman puts forth, I will gladly share all statistics.

Like mwtzzz, I'd love to see any comprehensive test results from anyone on this method. It would save me a lot of time!

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #30 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post
Since I did not test exactly what Volman puts forth in his book (for example, I did not use 70 tick charts [only 6 months of that data available in Tradestation], I tested with Euro futures, not Euro forex [testing with forex gets tricky with bid data stream and limit/stop orders], I have to, in fairness to the author, refrain from showing my preliminary results.

If I ever test exactly what Volman puts forth, I will gladly share all statistics.

Like mwtzzz, I'd love to see any comprehensive test results from anyone on this method. It would save me a lot of time!

It certainly depends on how "accurately" someone is able to code a Volman-like trading strategy into tradestation. Even very minor deviatons have the potential to produce markedly different results.

I wrote him myself recently and asked whether he was a discretionary or a system trader and he said he only trades on a discretionary basis.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #31 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


mwtzzz View Post
It certainly depends on how "accurately" someone is able to code a Volman-like trading strategy into tradestation. Even very minor deviatons have the potential to produce markedly different results.

I wrote him myself recently and asked whether he was a discretionary or a system trader and he said he only trades on a discretionary basis.

Absolutely!

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #32 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: oil super computer
Trading: multiple
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 632 given, 197 received


mwtzzz View Post
I use similar (discretionary) methods in crude oil futures. I don't see why implementing one or two of Volman's methods should not work for you. You have to realize that type of strategy pans out over the long term: individual wins or losses don't matter much. What matters is the cumulative effect over time and this cannot be measured in terms of a small number of trades. You will only see the results coming to fruition after many trades. As long as you are accepting of that, it is a perfectly valid way to trade. It is in fact the way that I trade.

What size chart did you use for crude?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #33 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


mongoose View Post
What size chart did you use for crude?


I use a 30minute bar chart and a 2000 volume chart. I use those to get an idea of recent volatility and to know where general areas of price congestion are.

For placing trades I refer more to the price behavior on the electronic ticker.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #34 (permalink)
Malaysia
 
Experience: None
Platform: Free
 
Posts: 105 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 126 given, 20 received

Any place cheaper then amazon to get the book?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #35 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


Azharr View Post
Any place cheaper then amazon to get the book?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Maybe the local library? There is one chapter (excerpt) online for free - you'd have to google for it

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #36 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


Azharr View Post
Any place cheaper then amazon to get the book?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Try:

Half.com: Textbooks , Books , Music , Movies , Games , Video Games
BookFinder.com: Search for New & Used Books, Textbooks, Out-of-Print and Rare Books

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #37 (permalink)
Malaysia
 
Experience: None
Platform: Free
 
Posts: 105 since Aug 2011
Thanks: 126 given, 20 received


kevinkdog View Post
I recently picked up the book:

"Forex Price Action Scalping: an in-depth look into the field of professional scalping"

by Bob Volman.


I'm curious - is there anyone out there using his approach with success (or without success)?


Thanks

I don't get it


Quoting 
After finishing in 1st or 2nd in a worldwide, REAL money, futures trading contest 3 years in a row (with over 100% returns each of those years!), I know these keys to successful trading will help you out. Follow them, and you'll be on your way to being in the 5% of winning traders.


Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #38 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


Azharr View Post
I don't get it

What's not to get? I am always looking for new methods, new techniques, new systems, and new ways to improve my trading. That's one reason why I am up at 5 AM in the morning - research & development takes up more of my time now than actual trading of my existing systems.

In my experience, complacency in trading will get you run over.

I hope this explains my interest in Volman.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #39 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received

So who came first or second in the trading comp referred to in the prior post?

Regards,
Neil.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #40 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


kevinkdog View Post
What's not to get? I am always looking for new methods, new techniques, new systems, and new ways to improve my trading. That's one reason why I am up at 5 AM in the morning - research & development takes up more of my time now than actual trading of my existing systems.

In my experience, complacency in trading will get you run over.

I hope this explains my interest in Volman.

Hello kevinkdog,

I bought the book and received it last week, I am at mid way exploring the range break setup. So far i like it. It is very similar to Lance Beggs approach in some aspects. However Beggs has less setups (only three) goes much deeper in his explanation and there are more scenarios to study which can make a difference as learning from a book is quite a noteworthy achievement. I'd like to ask you, did you test his setups on a chart with similar settings (70t per bar) and did you try to test other instruments?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #41 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Hello kevinkdog,

I bought the book and received it last week, I am at mid way exploring the range break setup. So far i like it. It is very similar to Lance Beggs approach in some aspects. However Beggs has less setups (only three) goes much deeper in his explanation and there are more scenarios to study which can make a difference as learning from a book is quite a noteworthy achievement. I'd like to ask you, did you test his setups on a chart with similar settings (70t per bar) and did you try to test other instruments?

So going back in the other direction,.did you get both of lances ebooks and do you think they are worth the $$$$

Regards,
Neil.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #42 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


NW27 View Post
So going back in the other direction,.did you get both of lances ebooks and do you think they are worth the $$$$

Regards,
Neil.

Yes i have both eBooks.

I have not bought many things since i started trading but i would say Lance Beggs has had a profound impact on my understanding of PA and the nature of supply/demand. Lance has been around since a long time and you can see by the large number of articles he wrote and share freely he knows his stuff. His eBooks go much deeper than simple setups. For me they are worth the $$$$ as you wrote and even more.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #43 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


NW27 View Post
So who came first or second in the trading comp referred to in the prior post?

Regards,
Neil.

That was me.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #44 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Hello kevinkdog,

I bought the book and received it last week, I am at mid way exploring the range break setup. So far i like it. It is very similar to Lance Beggs approach in some aspects. However Beggs has less setups (only three) goes much deeper in his explanation and there are more scenarios to study which can make a difference as learning from a book is quite a noteworthy achievement. I'd like to ask you, did you test his setups on a chart with similar settings (70t per bar) and did you try to test other instruments?

I did not try other instruments. I did not really try the 70 tick chart, because:

1. Since this is forex, every broker will have a different tick count (there is no central exchange with volume). So, if you really want to test 70 tick, you'd probably want to use the same data provider as Volman did in his book. I'm not even sure you could get the raw data to put in a backtest platform.

2. If you use another source for data (for example, I use Tradestation), you might be limited in the amount of data you can see. With Tradestation, I can only see the past 6 months. That is not enough for me to run what I think is a long enough test.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to kevinkdog for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #45 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post
That was me.

Real money?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #46 (permalink)
Legendary Market Wizard
Cleveland Ohio/United States
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Broker: Tradestation, DeCarley, others
Trading: futures
 
Posts: 2,909 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 1,527 given, 5,693 received


mwtzzz View Post
Real money?

Yes, real Money, year long.

You can see the winners list towards the bottom.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #47 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


kevinkdog View Post

I would suck at competitions. Okay, I would make money but it wouldnt' be anywhere in the ballpark of stellar like what some of those guys achieve. I'm a conservative trader. I don't plunge.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #48 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received

I take that back. Looking at the results on the homepage, those are about 2-3x larger than my average net ROI, not the huge 10x I was thinking

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #49 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received

I found out these observations from a student of Bob Volman PA quite interesting. The guy failed in his attempt to make it work for himself but i think overall he has the right attitude and perspective in his conclusion. It just proves once again how difficult it can be to learn from a book or by oneself.

Learning To Trade Like Bob Volman

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #50 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
I found out these observations from a student of Bob Volman PA quite interesting. The guy failed in his attempt to make it work for himself but i think overall he has the right attitude and perspective in his conclusion. It just proves once again how difficult it can be to learn from a book or by oneself.

Learning To Trade Like Bob Volman

The issue is in realizing that you must strive for a much better than breakeven method. Volmans' book is good in that it gives a correct general philosophy and a foundation of good price behavior concepts, but if you take any of his setups verbatim, you have only a breakeven system. When reading the first 80 pages, I saw a well written approach to price behavior, but I did not see a viable system for exploiting it.

In fact it is easy to develop a breakeven system by yourself - you don't need Volman or anybody else - there are a hundred different ways to do it, including the "throwing darts" approach. Obviously one must go beyond this.

One must identify setups or patterns that provide a much better edge, and then create a system that capitalizes on the edge. A book like Volman's can be a good start to give you ideas, but remember that "tight" stops only means you get stopped out more.

Once you identify the probabilities and rules for when to enter and exit, you must think about all the ways that a trade or trading strategy can become a loser. The definition of "loser" is "unrecoverable max drawdown." You may predefine your stop loss distance but this tells you nothing about your expected drawdown. It does not tell you how many losing trades in a row will happen. You need to be able to reasonably define that type of thing and then proceed to modify your method in a way to manage or limit the total drawdown.

The way I approached the development of my system was to:
(a) identify the target market - trending or ranging. this is the market my base strategy works best
(b) put the base strategy into the market it was not designed for - this represents the "worst case" scenario
(c) devise methods of limiting and recovering from the large drawdowns of the worst case scenario

In my opinion, trading naked futures always exposes you to the risk of too large losses that are either incurred in one trade during a limit move, or over many trades during the drawdown periods. It's necessary to use options to control this exposure. Options are insurance and you pay for it by buying premium. The fact that the premium does not move 1-1 with the futures price can be utilized to prevent a futures-options strategy from being a breakeven strategy, otherwise it will simply be another twist on the dreaded "breakeven."

I don't sell premium to make money because this is as risky as trading futures. By selling premium I'm talking about such things as initiating a credit spread like a bear put spread. There is no point in doing this. You gain nothing you don't already have with the underlying instrument.

My advice for people trying to break out of a "breakeven" rut is to take an approach similar to what I did. Start with an obvious winning strategy in a specific type of market (it is not difficult to create a winning strategy in a specific context). Use that as the core trading strategy. Then put it in an adverse market and modify the strategy so as to limit drawdown. Put the modified strategy back into the primary market and tweak it so that it remains profitable.

Remember that "profitable" means "net" and there's no point in trading unless you can make returns that are noticeably higher than interest rates offered by the banks.

Hopefully this helps some people.

Reply With Quote
The following 10 users say Thank You to mwtzzz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #51 (permalink)
san francisco, ca
 
 
Posts: 10 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 10 given, 5 received

I love Bob Volman's book.

It is readable and practical. (It'd be nice if the charts preceded the discussion about them but that's about the only caveat).

I am crazy about Mack @ priceactiontrading.com. Mainly he focuses on 2nd breaks which is a chapter in Volmnan's book.

Very similar principles but you get a daily review of what Mack's trades and you can replay the day on ninja and get into the mindset. That's an incredible learning tool.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to daij1944 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #52 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Just ordered the book

Over at trade2win there's an ongoing forum

Also there's a zipfile w/ his charts from this year

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #53 (permalink)
Naperville IL
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: ninjatrader
Broker: NT broker
Trading: NQ ES 6E GC CL
 
Posts: 958 since Feb 2010
Thanks: 1,189 given, 657 received

hi, how find zip file?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #54 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Look at the last/ latest post from BLS

-Bill

EDIT

It's the post above mine

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to WilleeMac for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #55 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

So far I like the book but have noticed one peculiar thing, at least to me.

"The trading platform may show prices in increments of pipettes (tenths of a pip), but that will not do for the chart." p45

He continues on pg46

I get what he's saying since he's extreme scalping

To me then why doesn't he trade futes?

No big deal

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #56 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


WilleeMac View Post
So far I like the book but have noticed one peculiar thing, at least to me.

"The trading platform may show prices in increments of pipettes (tenths of a pip), but that will not do for the chart." p45

He continues on pg46

I get what he's saying since he's extreme scalping

To me then why doesn't he trade futes?

No big deal

-Bill

Good question. I was thinking the same, why trading Forex where the cost of doing business is higher and more risky.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #57 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Only on chapter seven

IMO he's doing a damn good job of explaining this and that

Refreshing to read a bunch of stuff I thought i knew

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #58 (permalink)
NC, USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: None Yet
Trading: Guitar
 
MrYou's Avatar
 
Posts: 403 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 618 given, 196 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
Good question. I was thinking the same, why trading Forex where the cost of doing business is higher and more risky.

I don't know exactly how he would answer that, but I can guess.

He states his method would work for any instrument. Perhaps he is focusing on Spot Forex EUR/USD because its a good beginner/training instrument and he needs a single instrument for consistency vs jumping between instruments. Makes sense to me.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #59 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Not sure about that, could be

All I trade is /6E

Although it's very technical as to the set ups, 50% retrace etc (eminiaddict.com)

It's by no means easy/ beginner

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #60 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


MrYou View Post
I don't know exactly how he would answer that, but I can guess.

He states his method would work for any instrument. Perhaps he is focusing on Spot Forex EUR/USD because its a good beginner/training instrument and he needs a single instrument for consistency vs jumping between instruments. Makes sense to me.

I was looking at FXCM spread for the EUR/USD and i think the average spread is 2.6 pips. With this method the author aims for 10 pips so if we substract 2.6 pips at the entry and 2.6 pips at the exit there is not much profit left. This is what i meant by paying a higher cost and why scalping in the Forex market is a losing proposition.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #61 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Here's something I posted over T2W

Here's something that may help with direction as to whether buying bottom(s) vs selling the top(s)

I prefer an hourly candle for the highest time frame

Mull over the chart and note where the current candle opened in relation to the previous

Compare London to Germany, for me it's -5 and -6 GMT respectively

Then I'll look at the 4am est to the 3am etc etc

And now kick in Bob's most appropriate methodology

-Bill

EDIT

The chart is on /6E euro futes

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2013-03-15-TOS_CHARTSf.png
Views:	607
Size:	12.9 KB
ID:	106000  
Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to WilleeMac for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #62 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: oil super computer
Trading: multiple
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 632 given, 197 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
I was looking at FXCM spread for the EUR/USD and i think the average spread is 2.6 pips. With this method the author aims for 10 pips so if we substract 2.6 pips at the entry and 2.6 pips at the exit there is not much profit left. This is what i meant by paying a higher cost and why scalping in the Forex market is a losing proposition.

He states in the book not to use brokers where your going to be paying more than 1 pip rt in the spread, so this would rule out FXCM, who is on the high side of spread for forex brokers. There are not many options for U.S traders for a good spread in forex, the only ones that come close are maybe MB Trading, IB, Tradestation, Oanda, or Citi. But even some of those may be to high for these scalping setups.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to mongoose for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #63 (permalink)
Site Administrator
Swing Trader
Data Scientist & DevOps
Manta, Ecuador
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: My own custom solution
Trading: Emini Futures
 
Big Mike's Avatar
 
Posts: 49,324 since Jun 2009
Thanks: 32,007 given, 96,501 received


mongoose View Post
He states in the book not to use brokers where your going to be paying more than 1 pip rt in the spread, so this would rule out FXCM, who is on the high side of spread for forex brokers. There are not many options for U.S traders for a good spread in forex, the only ones that come close are maybe MB Trading, IB, Tradestation, Oanda, or Citi. But even some of those may be to high for these scalping setups.

Check out the FXCM webinar from yesterday. It was mentioned multiple times that unless you are trading a very small account, or very few trades per month, you can negotiate better spreads with FXCM. They also offer lower spreads by default at a certain threshold in their Elite category. I would like to see them offer automatic lower spreads in other tiers along the way as well, but until then all you have to do is ask. Tyler Yell was the presenter and his email address is in the webinar.

Webinar: FXCM + NinjaTrader: The Advantages of Spot Forex

Mike

We're here to help -- just ask

For the best trading education, watch our webinars
Searching for trading reviews? Review this list

Follow us on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook

Support our community as an Elite Member:
https://futures.io/elite/
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Big Mike for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #64 (permalink)
Chicago, IL
 
Experience: None
Platform: oil super computer
Trading: multiple
 
Posts: 195 since Jun 2011
Thanks: 632 given, 197 received


Big Mike View Post
Check out the FXCM webinar from yesterday. It was mentioned multiple times that unless you are trading a very small account, or very few trades per month, you can negotiate better spreads with FXCM. They also offer lower spreads by default at a certain threshold in their Elite category. I would like to see them offer automatic lower spreads in other tiers along the way as well, but until then all you have to do is ask. Tyler Yell was the presenter and his email address is in the webinar.

Webinar: FXCM + NinjaTrader: The Advantages of Spot Forex

Mike

Thanks Mike, actually watching the webinar as I read your post.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to mongoose for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #65 (permalink)
united kingdom
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: forex
 
Posts: 1 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 1 received

Forex Price action scalping:
Only scalp when the spread plus commission is one PIP or less.
Use a 70 tick chart with a 20ema and no other indicators.
Target of 10pips and a stop around 6 to 7.
Using indicators is a losing proposition that will only add confusion and doubt.
The market cannot be beaten. A trader can only strive to be those in it less proficient than himself. We have no guarantees; we just trade probability.
Those who strive for glory in trading are simply deluding themselves.
Double Doji break:
1. Look for a pullback to around the 20ema.
2. Look for two dojis or small candles in a row.
3. The key: temporary, compressed in decision.
4. Entry bar: takes out high ( for longs) or low ( for shorts)
5. For there is no point speculating over other tradersí motives. All he has to go by is what takes place in the chart on a recurring basis. And this task should be to exploit repetition.
6. Do not front run a break.
First Break:
1. First bar in a substantial pullback that gets taken out in the direction of the trend.
2. Enter with trend to capitalize on a quick resumption of the marketís original intent.
3. There are three conditions: (1) a strong trend with bigger frame participants; (2) full-fledged pullback; (3) the first pullback to go against the trend.
Second Break:
1. A superior setup than the First Break.
2. It is a pattern that could be seen as to first breaks following each other in relatively quick succession.
3. If the first break fails, this is the second with-trend attempt to end the pullback.
4. Enter at the moment the second signal bar gets broken in the direction of the trend.
5. As long as the market is trending and not running into obvious resistance, we should consider every orderly pullback a temporary event and use it to our advantage by trading our setups at every possible turning point.
6. And there is arguably no higher probability of a winning trade in the market than to take that trade with-trend after a pullback peters out.
Double Doji break, first break, and second break are with-trend entries.
Block Break:
1. A most simplistic description would be to characterize the pattern as a cluster of price bars tightly grouped together in a narrow vertical span. Preferably, the barriers of this block of bars are made up of several touches each, meaning that the top and bottom side of the pattern clearly represent resistance and support.
2. Think of a coil being suppressed by a now-weakening force that is bound to give in. If prices eventually break free in the direction of the path of least resistance, we immediately enter the market on a break of the box. That makes the broken horizontal barrier the signal line to our entry point.
3. There are three likely places where this can show up: (1) as a block of bars in the end of a pullback; (2) as a horizontal pullback in a strong trend; (3) as a block of bars in a non-trending market.
4. Although not nearly as detrimental to a traderís overall results as the other case, giving in to a sudden burst of boredom after a prolonged spell of inactivity is like walking away from investment that is just about to sprout.
Range Break:
1. The range will ultimately crack. The longer it lasts and the more defined the barriers can be drawn, the more players will spot the same break, which will enhance the likelihood of necessary follow-through. But not all breaks are created equal. As is the same with the BB setup, pre-breakout tension is one of the better leads to a dependable breakout.
2. What is a false break? When the market comes down from a high of pattern straight to the lower and it breaks the low almost instantaneously. Back is a terrible way to celebrate and often leads to a very classic trap, because there is no pre-breakout buildup. Prices that break through this barrier are already exhausted. There needs to be buildup.
3. Look for a proper squeeze: prices are literally being sandwiched between the 20ema and the barrier line.
4. The 20-bar ema can be an excellent aid not only in pushing prices through a barrier defense, but also in keeping them from slipping back into the box after a break.
Inside Range Break:
1. A range-break trade in the middle of the range.
2. It is not uncommon for prices, once broken free, to accelerate towards the nearest barrier.
3. At the end of the day, a scalperís task is all about tuning in to the beat of the market with as little information as possible. In a scalperís world, less is definitely more.
4. We should always bear in mind, though, that regardless of our wonderful setups, trades go sour all the time. New strategy could ever be devised to prevent that from happening. But once we understand that giving profits back to the market is part of the exact same process as taking profits from it, the whole idea of losing will become a non-issue. Losses are the costs of doing business as a trader, nothing more and nothing less.
5. This is a profession, not a constant game of win or lose.
Advanced Range Break:
1. To set up can be classified in two ways.
2. The first is as a clustering number of bars stagnating around the broken barrier level, but resilient enough to not prove the initial break false. The cluster basically hangs around the barrier, either on top of it ( for possible longs)or below it ( for possible shorts); sometimes the barrier level is running right through the center of it.
3. The second is more of a pullback variety. This is like a breakout pullback.
Tipping Point Technique:
1. The essentials are pretty easy. For example, the maximum loss on any trade will be determined before the actual trade is put on them will stand for as long as the position is active.
2. This last point to get out Ė the ultimate tipping point Ė usually lies a pip above or below a signal bar or at a level above or below the top or bottom in a particular pattern. In this scalping method, the average stop will be about 6 to 7 pip. The target objective at all times is 10. Whereas the target level should never be tampered with, the stop level, on the other hand, is free to be adjusted as the trade progresses, but only in the direction of the target and never the other way. The idea behind this, obviously, is to minimize the damage in case the market turns sour on the trade.
3. Not exiting an invalid trade is the cardinal sin of trading. It has been a recurring theme in many trading anecdotes, and this one folly will no doubt continue to entertain the public for as long as there are traders. Respecting a stop can never be a shameful act; disrespecting one, on the other hand is the true disgraceful feat.
4. To protect a trade from ever becoming a loser by pulling a stop to breakeven is simply asking for an early exit.
5. Bailing out of very healthy trades at the slightest sign of counter activity, grabbing whatever tiny profit, is a surefire way to remain forever stuck in the non-profitable phase of trading. A trader has to rise above his fears of losing and giving back profits.
6. It is not uncommon for a trade to come dangerously close to being stopped out. Such is the nature of trading. It cannot be stressed enough how important it is to not hit the X. button when confronted with these very typical counterattacks. When prices take your time, the power of demoralization can be excruciatingly strong. Fight it. Fight as hard as you can.
7. The urge to get out of the trade when it is still technically valid can be extremely powerful. And so can be the reluctance to pull the plug on a position when it is time to bail out. These two little quirks reside in each one of us. They can never be defeated. But, fortunately, there is a wicked clever enough to stop these little demons right in their tracks, and that his commitment. To simply do what needs to be done, even when it hurts.
8. A well-chosen tipping point is not just a spot on the chart. It must bear technical significance.

And if the moderator decided that this info is not appropriate to be published in this way, Please remove it. I do not want to brake the copyrights! The info is intended to stimulate the traders to attract their self from the content and eventually buy the book!https://futures.io/images/smilies/gtn/pcguru.gif

Reply With Quote
The following 11 users say Thank You to wolfdw for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #66 (permalink)
Raleigh, NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Interactive Brokers + Kinetick
Trading: CL/GC
 
Posts: 21 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 17 received


wolfdw View Post
Forex Price action scalping:
Only scalp when the spread plus commission is one PIP or less.

8. A well-chosen tipping point is not just a spot on the chart. It must bear technical significance.

Please give the original link if you copy and paste from somewhere else.

smilingsynic trading observations etc. | DaytradingBias.com

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to chaching for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #67 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Yes, thanks

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #68 (permalink)
Sunnyvale, CA
 
 
Posts: 171 since Dec 2012
Thanks: 8 given, 105 received

Just a couple observations.


there's is no "easy" versus "difficult" trading. No "less risky" versus "more risky." It's all the same risk and difficulty
no matter which product or market you are in. It makes no difference whether you decide to get involved with Forex,
commodity futures, stocks or options. It's important to understand this, otherwise you are really starting off on the wrong foot.

A couple points about Volman's book. Volman himself is a discretionary trader. This makes it very difficult for someone else to try to "mimic"
or follow what he does. Two individuals can get widely different results trying to trade the same system on a discretionary basis.
his book is good at teaching some basic concepts of price action and providing a collection of setups which can give you ideas of how to proceed with your own strategy. Your best chance of success is
to take a few of his ideas and tweak them so that they work for you, rather than trying to follow his procedure "verbatim."

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to mwtzzz for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #69 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

absolutely

-bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #70 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

For laughs and giggles I went to chapter 15 "Unfavorable Conditions"

pg 290

"Never lose sight of the fact that you want other players to follow in your footsteps. After all, that is the only way to ever reach target and also the very reason why these so-called secret indicators, which are sold for big bucks to the ignorant and foolish, are such terrible scams. What point is there in trading spots that others can't see."

There you go

And David Halsey will not agree more nor will I

-Bill

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to WilleeMac for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #71 (permalink)
Keller, TX USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Tradestation, NinjaTrader
Trading: YM, ES, CL
 
Posts: 42 since Sep 2010
Thanks: 1 given, 38 received

>> ".....If you want to trade the CME then just experiment until you come up with a tick number that looks doable and produces bars of around 2-4 pip in height on average. <<

Um, how about a 3 range bar?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #72 (permalink)
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Strategy Trader
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
 
Posts: 166 since Aug 2010
Thanks: 122 given, 153 received


trendisyourfriend View Post
I was looking at FXCM spread for the EUR/USD and i think the average spread is 2.6 pips.


mongoose View Post
He states in the book not to use brokers where your going to be paying more than 1 pip rt in the spread, so this would rule out FXCM, who is on the high side of spread for forex brokers.

Hi guys,

FXCM recently introduced lower spreads on our new dealing desk execution. The spreads are 1 pip lower for the most popular currency pairs than on our standard No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution. Mongoose, you mentioned wanting to pay less than 1 pip round turn. I'm not sure if that includes commission which would be an additional cost. Below you can see our spreads, and there is no commission charged on top of that.


Dealing desk execution is used by many brokers in the forex industry. However, FXCM's dealing desk is different because we use the FXCM NDD price feed as a base to derive prices and execute orders. This means that our dealing desk execution shares important features with our NDD execution such as no requotes and no restrictions on stops and limits. You can get a free practice account at FXCM.com to try our new spreads. Make sure to select "Lower Spreads (Dealing Desk)" for the Execution Type on the demo signup page as shown below.


Jason

If you have questions about our services at FXCM please send me a Private Message.
Follow me on Twitter Visit my Facebook Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Jason Rogers for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #73 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

EDIT

wrong thread

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #74 (permalink)
San Jose, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP Futures/CQG
Trading: currency futures, ES, TF, EMD
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 22 given, 24 received

Hi Kevindog,

I've been using Bob Volman's method for the most part, but still use other indicators too (not quite ready to let themm go yet). I've read approximately two thirds of Bob's book and so far have good successs with the range break trade.

I can only trade in the mornings between 6:15and 7:15 AM EST, so my goal is to get in one nice range-break trade before work each day. I've attached charts with two of my recent trades. They are not the prettiest 70 tick trades I've made, but they got the job done. In case you are wondering, the lime green line in the charts is a 20 EMA, the red and green line is a 14-period HMA Colour Change.

Hope this helps.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6E 06-13 (70 Tick)  3_21_2013.jpg
Views:	570
Size:	129.4 KB
ID:	106609   Click image for larger version

Name:	6E 06-13 (70 Tick)  3_22_2013.jpg
Views:	431
Size:	102.1 KB
ID:	106610  
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to gringa for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #75 (permalink)
Jacksonville, FL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: CL
 
TonyParisi's Avatar
 
Posts: 33 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 217 given, 40 received


gringa View Post
Hi Kevindog,

I've been using Bob Volman's method for the most part, but still use other indicators too (not quite ready to let themm go yet). I've read approximately two thirds of Bob's book and so far have good successs with the range break trade.

I can only trade in the mornings between 6:15and 7:15 AM EST, so my goal is to get in one nice range-break trade before work each day. I've attached charts with two of my recent trades. They are not the prettiest 70 tick trades I've made, but they got the job done. In case you are wondering, the lime green line in the charts is a 20 EMA, the red and green line is a 14-period HMA Colour Change.

Hope this helps.

Just curious but is the rectangle your 'range'? Because it seems to be only three ticks. Or is that simply your signal line. I just read Volmans book and the method has peaked my interest. From my understanding though his ranges are longer, preferably being the better part of an hour.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #76 (permalink)
San Jose, CA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: AMP Futures/CQG
Trading: currency futures, ES, TF, EMD
 
Posts: 20 since Jul 2012
Thanks: 22 given, 24 received

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your thoughtful question. It has been a while since I read the chapter on range breaks, so I took this opportunity to revisit it with respect to your question.

I do agree with you that range break setups are typically more protracted than the trades I posted. Bob Volman said on page 138 that range formations can last from about 15 minutes to several hours, and that the average is the better part of an hour. Both of my setups were approximately 10-12 minutes long, which may better fit either a block break setup, or perhaps an inside range break if they were to occur within a larger range. Since the characteristics of the setups are pretty much the same for block and range breaks, I personally do not differentiate between them. In fact, in discussing inside range breaks, the author refers to small, compressed blocks of price action within the larger range as mini ranges.

As for the height of the boxes, in the second trade I could have drawn the bottom at 1.2943, which would have made the width more like 6 ticks. I did not bother to draw the bottom of the box precisely because I was looking for a trend continuation and for my trend line and the pivot at 1.2945 to hold. Strictly speaking, this better fits the block break than the range break, but as I mentioned I personally treat them as the same.

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to gringa for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #77 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

Although I have not read the entire book, what I have is very helpful in teaching/ enforcing the elusive price action - esp in context to what happened on the left of the price chart. If you've come to this point in the ball game Volman points out what you don't know, you do know.

The book is well written w/ thorough explanation of the thought process, charts, price action, progress of strategy building one on the other from chapter to chapter.

The only thing that I question is why not futures instead of cash? He uses a 70 pip (tick) price bar which is about 30 seconds as Volman notes. Obviously in a fast market it could be much shorter in duration, 10-15 seconds. Also a 1.5 pip spread between the bid ask on EUR/USD (the currency pair used exclusively in the book) is about the same as the spread on 6E which is on a regulated exchange - other than the algos (pun intended.) If I'm guessing correctly it is most likely the no commission/ exchange fee etc. I'll stick with 6E.

For this type of read it's "easy" to read

If you are an indicator type person this book is not for you - although keep in mind everything comes down to price (action.)

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #78 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received


WilleeMac View Post
Although I have not read the entire book.......

The only thing that I question is why not futures instead of cash?

Perhaps you should read chapter 16. Here he gives an in site into a reason to use cash as opposed to futures.
In a brief nutshell, for a new person to the markets, and trading futures, it can be quite difficult to decide from a proper money management perspective, when to change from trading 1 contract, to 2 or 3 or 4 etc.
Say 1 futures contract = $10 per pip, and 1 cash contract (100,000) = $10 per pip and you are using a 10 pip stop.
At risk is $100. With a 2% risk rule your account size should be > $5000.

Now the futures trader is getting better and decides that they would like to increase their position size, the only option they have is to double their position size ie from 1 too 2 contracts, with a 10 pip stop, your account size should be > $10,000. So before you can move up in position size, you need to double your account size.
Some traders would argue that the account size needs to be >$15,000 before moving from 1 to 2 contracts.

By using the cash forex, as your account grows, you can slowly increase your position size to reflect this.
As an example, after two months trading you are now up 10% and have an account size of $5500.
Keeping with the 2% risk rule, your at risk using above examples would be $110 and therefore your position size would be 110,000.
Same applies in the other direction In futures you can't trade < 1 contract but you could trade a cash forex size of 90,000.


Chapter 16 is a good read.

Neil.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to NW27 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #79 (permalink)
maui
 
Experience: Master
Platform: NT, TWS,TW
Broker: IB.AMP.CQG.DTN
Trading: Currency, Futures, Options
 
peterg's Avatar
 
Posts: 122 since Mar 2010
Thanks: 35 given, 189 received


NW27 View Post
Perhaps you should read chapter 16. Here he gives an in site into a reason to use cash as opposed to futures.
In a brief nutshell, for a new person to the markets, and trading futures, it can be quite difficult to decide from a proper money management perspective, when to change from trading 1 contract, to 2 or 3 or 4 etc.
Say 1 futures contract = $10 per pip, and 1 cash contract (100,000) = $10 per pip and you are using a 10 pip stop.
At risk is $100. With a 2% risk rule your account size should be > $5000.

Now the futures trader is getting better and decides that they would like to increase their position size, the only option they have is to double their position size ie from 1 too 2 contracts, with a 10 pip stop, your account size should be > $10,000. So before you can move up in position size, you need to double your account size.
Some traders would argue that the account size needs to be >$15,000 before moving from 1 to 2 contracts.

By using the cash forex, as your account grows, you can slowly increase your position size to reflect this.
As an example, after two months trading you are now up 10% and have an account size of $5500.
Keeping with the 2% risk rule, your at risk using above examples would be $110 and therefore your position size would be 110,000.
Same applies in the other direction In futures you can't trade < 1 contract but you could trade a cash forex size of 90,000.


Chapter 16 is a good read.

Neil.

Scalability with cash forex is one of the benefits to position size flexibility relative to account size limits and personal account risk percentages.
Brokers charges may not be scalable accordingly; eg IB charges $2.50 up to and for subsequent 100K increment and they round up to the next 200k, even if its 150k its $5. However other brokers scale commissions directly in as low as 1K "micros" units
Likewise there are Micro Currency Futures, which are actually tenth size standard contract typically 12.5K EUR,10k AUD, 6.25K GBP (like forex minis except for the Sterling) there's a little more spread..... but fine for swinging, position scaling / building and small account scalping. Clearing is typically tenth cost as well.

The odd ball is the JPY Micro...its illiquid...next to nothing trades, where as the spot is very liquid.

There are also mini Currencies which are half size contracts for JPY J7 and EUR E7 typically with the same clearing cost as the full contract

So there are options...too bad all futures contracts weren't micro or mini scalable

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #80 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received


peterg View Post
Scalability with cash forex is one of the benefits to position size flexibility relative to account size limits and personal account risk percentages.
Brokers charges may not be scalable accordingly; eg IB charges $2.50 up to and for subsequent 100K increment and they round up to the next 200k, even if its 150k its $5.

Although getting of the Bob Volman topic, your above statement is not correct.
IB are scaled. ie 100K = $2.55, 200K=$4.15 AND 110K = $2.81

Neil.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #81 (permalink)
florence
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MetaTrader
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 2 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received

Some trades from today european morning






Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Sparviero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #82 (permalink)
florence
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: MetaTrader
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 2 since Jan 2013
Thanks: 2 given, 4 received





Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	USD Spot5min.png
Views:	111
Size:	27.0 KB
ID:	110313  
Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to Sparviero for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #83 (permalink)
London England
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 13 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 4 received

Hi Guys:

I noticed a couple of recent articles here about spreads, and it apears to me that tight spread may be critical to trading these methods. If we're aiming for 10 pips (and sometimes bailing earlier), can we really afford to use a dealer or an instrument that's going to cost us 3 to 5 pips round trip, plus a pip for the signal? I guess that limits us to Spot, a very few pairs to trade, and a very few brokers.

Interactive Broker's spread on EURUSD is commonly 0.5 pip plus 0.2 pip commission, so a round trip with a decent fill would cost 1.4 pips. As I write (12.30 GMT), Dukascopy is offering 0.6 pip spread on EURUSD plus 0.18 pip commission on $25-$250K accounts - round trip 1.56 pips. Anyone know what other brokers match or better these spreads?

Just a thought about adaptive position sizing as recommended in FPAS - if you use NinjaTrader, there's an expensive ($995) third party plug-in available called Trade Manager that replaces NinjaTrader's Chart Trader, and among a lot of other stuff, it automatically sets your trade size based on account size, preferred max % risk you set, and the stop loss size you set for the current trade. I'm thinking of getting this - has anyone tried it?

Max

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #84 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Quebec
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader wt Rancho Dinero's profiling tools
Broker: AMP/CQG
Trading: ES, NQ, YM
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,956 since Oct 2009
Thanks: 3,640 given, 5,083 received


maxr View Post
Hi Guys:

...
Just a thought about adaptive position sizing as recommended in FPAS - if you use NinjaTrader, there's an expensive ($995) third party plug-in available called Trade Manager that replaces NinjaTrader's Chart Trader, and among a lot of other stuff, it automatically sets your trade size based on account size, preferred max % risk you set, and the stop loss size you set for the current trade. I'm thinking of getting this - has anyone tried it?

Max

This plug-in may be good but it's almost as expensive as Ninja. Does not make sense. If you want a cheaper version ($99) check this solution:
High Tech Trading Analysis, LLC | Trade Plan

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to trendisyourfriend for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #85 (permalink)
London England
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: Forex
 
Posts: 13 since Oct 2011
Thanks: 6 given, 4 received

Thanks Trendisyourfriend - that looks like a useful indicator to work out trade size etc. in relation to risk at a very reasonable price. I might still buy the Trade Manager I mentioned, because it not only works out the size you want to trade based on your chosen risk profile, but it also sets up all the orders ready to send with one click, just by clicking the entry etc. prices you want on the chart. It also has many other features (like 9 different trail stop methods with previews) which result in what looks like a very useful improvement on NinjaTrader's already excellent Chart Trader. It is expensive, and I'm surprised I can't find anything cheaper that does the same stuff - anyone seen anything like that?

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #86 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader, ensignsoftware
Broker: ampfutures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, Cl, TF
 
Posts: 120 since May 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 51 received

volman's book may have a lot of solid trading methods. however, i think trading the forex is quite dangerous. if he can apply his method to CL, TF, NQ or ZB those futures markets are more volatile and offer more opportunities.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #87 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

/6E

It's all about price

His system can easily be adapted to those you listed as well

-Bill_M

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #88 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader, ensignsoftware
Broker: ampfutures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, Cl, TF
 
Posts: 120 since May 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 51 received

Kevin

herewith my tradelog. i trade cup breaks. i will load up a few tradeshots latter to see how volman's method can help me stay out of trouble or better time my entries and judge risk. i was trading for 1hr fro arud EST 14h52. i am 5 hours ahead of EST. i will load up the trades a little latter. basically, my interest is to find out whther using volman's method i can avoid some trades. i am not looking at his entries as such, but better understanding of risks.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tradelog-28-jul.jpg
Views:	304
Size:	145.4 KB
ID:	117221  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to nqcruiser for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #89 (permalink)
Cape Town, South Africa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ninjatrader, ensignsoftware
Broker: ampfutures/Zen-Fire
Trading: 6E, Cl, TF
 
Posts: 120 since May 2010
Thanks: 15 given, 51 received

these r some of the trades on nq. i just trade the breakout of the s/r level. r there any volman ideas that can help me skipped some of these trades.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	trades-nq-11.jpg
Views:	313
Size:	176.4 KB
ID:	117222  
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #90 (permalink)
Market Wizard
Mumbai, India
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: ChartNexus
Trading: Stocks, Commodities, Futures
 
iqgod's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,764 since Feb 2012
Thanks: 3,628 given, 2,952 received



From 13:44 to 13:48 price could have done two things - it could have broken out of the 20 pip trading range, or it could have respected the trading range boundary and retraced back to the other end of the range.

I only had to wait to find out. The later scenario played out and I shorted the IRB at 1.3769 at the 20EMA.

The next thing I had to do was wait till my 10-tick target was reached or till I could place a valid tipping point which would have taken me out.

The first scenario happened and the 10-tick target was reached instantaneously.

The second short I have marked was similarly easy to have gauged but note that I did not take it (Tilt Label: UP_ON_THE_DAY_SCARED_OF_GIVING_BACK)


For a great comparison of the trade with the Master take a look at a similar trade Bob has documented in Fig 12.1 page 180 of the book.

Visit my futures io Trade Journal Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to iqgod for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #91 (permalink)
Newcastle, Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Multicharts 8 - Full Version
Broker: IB
Trading: SPI,FTSE100, 6E, 6A
 
Posts: 285 since Oct 2010
Thanks: 108 given, 185 received

Well done

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Reply With Quote
The following user says Thank You to NW27 for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #92 (permalink)
Chester Springs, PA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Jigsaw & NinjaTrader 8
Broker: Looking - Just getting back into Trading
Trading: ES, NQ, CL
 
Posts: 38 since Apr 2010
Thanks: 104 given, 46 received

I've been trading the PATs method for about 4 months and I really have improved my trading following Price Action. I picked up Volman's book to get a different perspective on Price Action, not to trade Forex. I have to say I am only through about 1/3 of the book, but I really like how he talks about how to look at Price Action as he goes through his setups. It is not the setups that really have my attention but how he talks about how to look at how price action does certain things (testing Highs/Lows, etc.), how you have to trade your edge and can't cherry pick trades if your setup shows up, etc. Just some great tips on PA and the mental side of the game. I would recommend the book for anyone whether you ever trade Forex.
I have read Al Brooks book and he is a genius, I just couldn't grasp his material like I am sure a lot of traders have. Volman's book so far is simpler to read and understand, at least for me. And it really seems to compliment Mack's (PATs) information.

Reply With Quote
The following 7 users say Thank You to travelinman for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #93 (permalink)
sumbawa+indonesia
 
 
Posts: 11 since Nov 2013
Thanks: 0 given, 1 received

Yeah, scalping based on price action is good way in forex trade. I also use this trading strategy...

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #94 (permalink)
san diego CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, TOS
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 35 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 24 given, 12 received

Is the tick chart in Forex similar to futures? For example I use 399 tick chart in CL and each tick is a transaction that occured. Is that the same in spot Forex?

I am not sure because I read something to the effect that a tick in spot Forex is whenever the bid price changes!?

thanks for clarifying

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #95 (permalink)
san diego CA/USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: SC, TOS
Trading: ES, CL
 
Posts: 35 since Aug 2013
Thanks: 24 given, 12 received

Any one looked into think or swim for tick charting for Forex? My understanding that tick charting in MT4 can be a "hassle"... And I like TOS charting admittedly

I am not sure how the quality of spot Forex data feed is for TOS

just eyeballing it looks like it take 10-20min to complete a 399 tick chart on the EUR/USD. Keeping in mind this is the 4th of July week and the world cup is on...

Does this sound about right?



much appreciated

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-07-02-TOS_CHARTS.png
Views:	206
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	150235   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-07-02-TOS_CHARTS.png 5 min.png
Views:	131
Size:	74.6 KB
ID:	150236  
Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #96 (permalink)
Prospect, KY. USA
 
Experience: None
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: Infinity
Trading: /CL
 
WilleeMac's Avatar
 
Posts: 687 since Jan 2012
Thanks: 309 given, 613 received

IMHO

Darn good strategies

Rule based etc

/6E (vs cash) is a better product because of attributes

-Bill

PS. futs are nothing more than a hedge for the real deal regardless of underlying

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #97 (permalink)
Jacksonville, FL
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader
Trading: CL
 
TonyParisi's Avatar
 
Posts: 33 since Oct 2012
Thanks: 217 given, 40 received


contrails View Post
Any one looked into think or swim for tick charting for Forex? My understanding that tick charting in MT4 can be a "hassle"... And I like TOS charting admittedly

I am not sure how the quality of spot Forex data feed is for TOS

just eyeballing it looks like it take 10-20min to complete a 399 tick chart on the EUR/USD. Keeping in mind this is the 4th of July week and the world cup is on...

Does this sound about right?



much appreciated

Just to clarify your other comment. Tick based charts show each price change, not contract traded. So if you were looking at a crude chart 400 volume it would show 400 contracts traded. If there were 50 contracts traded consecutively at one price, say CL 95.00 a volume based chart would not move unless the bar was over. Where as if you were looking at a 400 tick chart it would show 400 price changes. So if crude went from 95.00 to 95.01 to 95.00 that would be three ticks (price changes), but if crude did 95.00 to 95.00 to 95.00 to 95.00 a tick chart only shows that as 1 tick. Forex data can be reliable depending on your broker and data feed. People often criticize ToS data because they receive it in blocks. I have it as well as ninja/cqg and I have never seen anything larger than a minuscule difference in quotes or futures fills. Option fills are a different story for ToS, but I won't get into that for the sake of this thread. For 99.9% of individual traders this won't really affect your trading. If you are trading with such a small margin of error on a visual based platform that a tiny spread will affect your trading, you are most likely losing money or at the very least not maximizing your profits in the first place. Also, if you are using forex for a specific reason, account size or a specific strategy, then go right ahead but if not then I would suggest moving to the futures contract /6E on ToS for Eur/Usd. There are a lot of benefits on going to the futures contract if you have the account size to back it up.

Reply With Quote
 
(login for full post details)
  #98 (permalink)
New York, NY, USA
 
 
Posts: 105 since Jun 2013
Thanks: 2 given, 46 received

Another thumbs up for Volman. Excellent book. Bob sends marked up euro charts every Sunday, there's someone at trade2win who posts them regularly in a thread. There's nothing like seeing constant reminders of what he's talking about.

Bear in mind that unlike what is said in the book, Volman does sometimes adjust his take profit target (it's not always at a fixed 10 pips).

I'm thinking of borrowing some of Volman's ideas for CL possibly.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users say Thank You to Georgii for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #99 (permalink)
Leeds UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradingView
Broker: LCG, Oanda
Trading: ES, 6E, Cable
 
Tymbeline's Avatar
 
Posts: 463 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 1,185 given, 634 received

My first post here. I'm extremely late to the party and hope nobody will mind my bumping a thread in which the previous post was 7 months ago, but I also regularly trade some of the set-ups of this method.

I find both Volman and Beggs considerably easier reading than Brooks.

On the EUR/USD, 30-second charts do seem to be roughly equivalent to Volman's tick-charts.

I trade this on EUR/USD and sometimes on GBP/USD (for which I typically have a spread of more like 1.8-2.0 pips rather than 1.4/1.5 on the Euro, which is quite significant), between about 8.30am and 8.30pm London time, but avoiding the NY open time. I keep meaning to try it on USD/CAD as well, which I think is fairly well-behaved if lower-key?

I prefer spot forex to futures simply because of the position-sizing flexibility.

I see no reason why it shouldn't be equally viable, with different targets and stop losses, on slower charts (and Bob Volman states that it is), and I sometimes use it on 2-minute charts, as well. Not regularly enough to have worked out which I prefer.

It's fun, but requires quite a lot of concentration - definitely an acquired taste.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users say Thank You to Tymbeline for this post:
 
(login for full post details)
  #100 (permalink)
Raleigh, NC
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: Interactive Brokers + Kinetick
Trading: CL/GC
 
Posts: 21 since Sep 2012
Thanks: 79 given, 17 received


Tymbeline View Post
I trade this on EUR/USD and sometimes on GBP/USD (for which I typically have a spread of more like 1.8-2.0 pips rather than 1.4/1.5 on the Euro, which is quite significant), between about 8.30am and 8.30pm London time, but avoiding the NY open time. I keep meaning to try it on USD/CAD as well, which I think is fairly well-behaved if lower-key?

I think a better measure would be the ratio of spread to price, which makes GBP/USD and EUR/USD have relatively equal spread. USD/CAD's price is around 1.2 with a spread of 2+ and it has similar trading range as USD/JPY. So USD/JPY would be a better pair to trade.


Quoting 
I see no reason why it shouldn't be equally viable, with different targets and stop losses, on slower charts (and Bob Volman states that it is), and I sometimes use it on 2-minute charts, as well. Not regularly enough to have worked out which I prefer.

It's fun, but requires quite a lot of concentration - definitely an acquired taste.

Volman's second book, Understanding Price Action, is mainly about trading 5 min chart. At the end of the book there is a chapter about low vol environment where he suggested 200 tick chart which is what I am trading right now. I used to trade 70 tick charts and found it too fast for me. With a slower chart I can look at three pairs, EURUSD, AUDUSD and USDJPY. I also found his weekly 70-tick charts very helpful and much of the technique can be applied to 200-tick charts as well.

Here's the dropbox link to his weekly chart: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1amxmi9af0fk6ej/VA5_ZrjQF1

And smilingsynic's review on his second book: Understanding Price Action: Practical Analysis of the 5-Minute Time Frame by Bob Volman | DaytradingBias.com

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users say Thank You to chaching for this post:


futures io Trading Community Traders Hideout Currencies > Bob Volman - Price Action Scalping


Last Updated on December 11, 2015


Upcoming Webinars and Events
 

Journal Challenge!

February
 

Battlestations!

March
     



Copyright © 2021 by futures io, s.a., Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama, +507 833-9432, info@futures.io
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
no new posts