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A Bitcoin Believerís Crisis of Faith
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A Bitcoin Believerís Crisis of Faith

  #21 (permalink)
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Neo1 View Post
[B]Mike Hearn recently got a new job at

Pizza Hut? How about addressing his concerns, all of them were completely legit??? Freaking bitcoin can't even handle m ore than 3 transactions per second, Visa does 10K... Future of money for sure...

Also shitload of problems but since there is no consensus, they never get fixed...

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  #22 (permalink)
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Jamie Dimon just said on CNBC (in Davos) that he thinks Bitcoin will go nowhere but that the Blockchain was here to stay and has the ability to change a lot of things.

Interestingly he thinks that Bitcoin will never go anywhere because if it did start succeeding that the major governments would shut it down.

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  #23 (permalink)
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SMCJB View Post
Interestingly he thinks that Bitcoin will never go anywhere because if it did start succeeding that the major governments would shut it down.

Governments can not shut down something people trust or associate value to..
Governments can make it illegal... which probably would only fuel it.. the intrinsic value and the alternative attraction power

However, the moment that people no longer believe in the legal tender of the local currency
then you will see something...

It could potentially spark a wave of barter, and barter is much more difficult to tax than exchange
of so called government created legal tender 'money'... What justifies that governments like and
the ECB can just continue to create money (euros) out of thin air ?

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  #24 (permalink)
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rleplae View Post
Governments can not shut down something people trust or associate value to..
Governments can make it illegal... which probably would only fuel it.. the intrinsic value and the alternative attraction power

The US Government did a pretty good job of shutting down online gambling & poker in the US (it was already illegal). How? They made it illegal for Banks, Credit Card Companies, Payment Processors etc to transfer money to the online sites. Hasn't wiped it out completely but it crushed the industry as a whole. Obviously Bitcoin is a lot more international in scope, but if the major developed countries coordinated their policies it would probably give Bitcoin some major issues.

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rleplae View Post
Governments can not shut down something people trust or associate value to..

Sure they can. They make it illegal to accept it as legal tender for retailers, there goes the usefulness of bitcoin. Then you can only buy alpaca socks from Brazil or drugs from darknet markets, but nothing from any real online store. Not to mention if your wallet gets hacked you can't even complain about it anymore.

So your thinking is a fallacy and you should better get back to real life. The first time terrorist use bitcoin in a provable way will be the end of non-regulation...

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Pedro40 View Post
So your thinking is a fallacy and you should better get back to real life. The first time terrorist use bitcoin in a provable way will be the end of non-regulation...

In traditional think yes
In thinking where people don't trust the 'value' of a counter delivery the dynamics will chainge

If i think that the XYZ Ä, US$, RMB, or whatever your currency is, does not give me sufficient guarntee
that tomorrow i can buy an equal 'valuable' service, the currency is finished, that's the bottom line
thinking..

In ancient history, people had silver coins, gold coins, etc... this tive them guarantee to be able to buy
certain goods and services.In modern economy we have an issue that potentially people don't trust
any more the local currency and are looking for a surrogate (hence the bitcoin and other crypto currencies)

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rleplae View Post
In traditional think yes

There is no other kind of thinking. If you are coming with the paradigm shift and other BS, I would like you to remember the late 90s when tech stock went up 100s on no earnings. Profits and a working business model didn't count anymore because that was the old, traditional thinking. Then something happened and the paradigm shift disappeared.

Bitcoin is nothing special compared to any other crypto currency. It is not working as a payment method (unless you call 3 transactions per second working) currently, it is hard to improve because there is no consensus and incredibly vulnerable to attacks, competition and banning. Hell, it couldn't even handle the stress test 2 months ago when for a paltry $500 a day someone was ddosing the system with a bunch of transactions...

If you want to bet your future on such an investment, so be it, but you have been warned... I am not saying it isn't tradable (it very much is because of the volatility), but nobody should be holding it for the long run for thinking of getting rich...

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Pedro40 View Post
There is no other kind of thinking. If you are coming with the paradigm shift and other BS, I would like you to remember the late 90s when tech stock went up 100s on no earnings. Profits and a working business model didn't count anymore because that was the old, traditional thinking. Then something happened and the paradigm shift disappeared.

Bitcoin is nothing special compared to any other crypto currency. It is not working as a payment method (unless you call 3 transactions per second working) currently, it is hard to improve because there is no consensus and incredibly vulnerable to attacks, competition and banning. Hell, it couldn't even handle the stress test 2 months ago when for a paltry $500 a day someone was ddosing the system with a bunch of transactions...

If you want to bet your future on such an investment, so be it, but you have been warned... I am not saying it isn't tradable (it very much is because of the volatility), but nobody should be holding it for the long run for thinking of getting rich...

Hello @Pedro40

Please allow me to give you some real-live payment experience.. reality.. of the so called 'trusted' visa, mastercard systems with world class banks... to put you back feet on the ground...

If you like to discuss traditional payment systems and cash system, i can give you a few examples of complete failure, beyond the preliminary Bitcoin issues... based on real live experience...

1į you withdraw cash from a counter top device (Ingenico) and the transaction fails (typical time-out) on the communication, luckily the device generates a ticket, otherwise you are already f#@&ed.. showing the technical error.No harm you try a second time... then the device gets a response from your bank (in this case it is ING, a world class European bank) for a daily limit overdraft (not an account overdraft, but an overdraft on the maximum amount you are allowed to withdraw in cash per day). result : two tickets, no cash. two attempts, no cash. you walk away...

a few moments/hours later you watch your account and realize that the amount has been "reserved" out of your account. (technically it means the authorization was done on your account, the second request was refused because of the first message, there is a technical message called technical reversal, which in case of a time out could fix everything, but most banks/acquirers are too lousy to correctly implement it...)

you contact your world class bank (ING in this case) they say.. no problem...the money is not yet taken, just reserved..

you contact the acquirer bank (Leumi Card Israel in this case) they say, not problem

few days later, the money for the cash withdrawal, you never received in the first place, is debited out of your account...

2į we get to the level of dispute...

luckily you have both of the tickets (imagina you don't... you are...
( as a rule of good practice i strongly recommend you to always take a different amount
so in case of a dispute you can not only identify a transaction by the date but also
by the amount, if not the bank is perfectly capable of picked the wrong transaction
and saying, this transaction went perfectly without any problems....)

first reaction of the bank is .. not possible
you insist and with resistance, they open a case

weeks pass and nothing happens...
you ask for an update and no answer
you tell them you will put on facebook or social media and all of a sudden the bank branch is no longer allowed to answer
a district manager of ING takes over.. giving no answer and refusing to give an update

3į the good news of the story is that after nearly 2 Months of waiting the money is again in your account


Now tell me if this is :

1į a good customer service
2į what the regulator had in mind
3į where did the money stay all the time ? there should have been an imbalance somewhere ?
4į does it really take 2 moths ? (= 60 days to investigate a problem, for which the basis is just
lousy programming of a terminal vendor like Ingenico, An acquirer like Leumi card or an issuer
like ING bank ?)


In my opinion, it is time that some new incumbents challenge some of those dinosours for their
service and their operations...

With regards to Bitcoins and criminals, i warmly appreciate interpol activity like :

https://www.europol.europa.eu/content/international-action-against-dd4bc-cybercriminal-group

which makes well intended crypto currency more viable

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The IMF is Talking & Vouching for Virtual Currencies and Blockchain Tech

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/imf-director-talks-up-virtual-currencies-and-blockchain-tech/


Block Chain currencies are here to stay. Bitcoin might fail, however it's currently in the drivers seat...

"Free markets work because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggressive trial and error, not by giving rewards or incentives for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible and try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as you can"
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  #30 (permalink)
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rleplae View Post

In my opinion, it is time that some new incumbents challenge some of those dinosaurs for their
service and their operations...

Sure but it doesn't have to be a completely shitty neckbeard operation like bitcoin. Imagine if Walmart or Amazon would release a virtual currency premined and distributed among retail users. Amazon has already 100 million costumers, that is 100 million potential useers if each gets a coin. Who doesn't like a free few bucks? Bitcoin has like what, a 100 thousand users maybe?

What is the advantage of a centralized coin? if there are problems they can be fixed in a few days instead of YEARS. Freaking bitcoin is still in alpha after 7 years of existence, and they can't reach consensus on basic features like the 2 MB increase and such.

Not to mention the banking industry could DDoS bitcoin into oblivion, if they wanted, it costs so little.

You tell me when any blockchain can handle 10000 transactions per SECONDS, like Visa does today, and I sign up the next day...

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