Hello, I'm new, trying to learn the footprint - futures io
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Hello, I'm new, trying to learn the footprint

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Hello, I'm new, trying to learn the footprint

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  #1 (permalink)
Bend Oregon
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: Futures Copper
Posts: 3 since Nov 2021
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received

I am new to Futures io and just wanted to send my first post. I have been studying to be a trader I have been trying to learn the Footprint on Sierra Chart. I only look at Copper futures for now, which has been in a small range for a few days.

Finally, the big move came today and and the footprint was confusing. Price just kept going up and up with both negative deltas and cum delta ALL morning. Volume was up and I knew that it must be big traders/banks being passive buyers but according to what I've been studying on youtube, it would make more sense to see aggressive buyers. I did look back on my charts and found a few times that's happened in the past couple of months. I'm glad I saw it, now I'm aware of it.

I'm wondering if that is just a way for big banks and traders to hide what they are doing.

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Can you help answer these questions
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Learning Day Trading, need some advice on approach advice
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NT8 - Footprint Chart adding on code
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  #2 (permalink)
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader / IB /Bookmap
Broker: EdgeClear / InteractiveBrokers / Rithmic
Trading: DAX / (M)NQ / (M)ES
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Hi @Diecap,

I can't really help you, other than recommend to watch the 2 webinars about footprints, right here on FIO.

Good luck

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  #3 (permalink)
Chicago, Illinois/United States of America
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Sierra Chart, Daytradr,MW
Broker: AMP, ADMIS, Gain, Charles Schwab. Data: CQG, Open-eCry
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Posts: 9 since Jun 2013
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Seems like you're overthinking this...

Negative delta means that the sellers are definitely more aggressive- but if price continues to go up, it can only mean one thing- the sellers are not able to overpower the buyers. The price going up is a combination of the passive limit buyers absorbing the sellers, then continually absorbing them at continually higher prices as well, which fuels the rally because sellers give up & bail out w/ buy orders. Eventually more traders wise up & start buying, & the auction market process continues until the buyers consider price too high.

As to who is in the market- there are other ways to discern who is in the market - time of day is one, the type of day it is (market profile), context, the amount of range extension, the fundamentals situation, the timeframe/area the market is in (larger players might be likely to get involved near monthly highs or lows, for example), open interest moving in & out of the market, etc.

I don't trade copper, but it seems like it might be a fast & thin market- I could be wrong. For a newer trader, a numbers bar chart (footprint) might not be the best tool to use or to try to learn to use to trade copper, unless you've got clearly defined entry criteria for this instrument & market. Seems like it would be difficult to read- but I don't know the market or what you're looking at in your chart. I will say, that context is king- so it's very important you're viewing order flow with a strong understanding of the context the market is in at that moment.

Hope something in this was helpful.

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  #4 (permalink)
Posts: 2 since Jun 2018
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Dear, I am also quite new to order flow. But not to trading. You need to remember few points here.

1) Forget the idea that, order flow will give you holy grail setup that you can mint money everyday. None of the systems / strategies / Indicators do.
2) You statement that "market going up with negative delta is not true" you must have seen few bars with negative delta but prices might have increased. This is the result of passive buying through limit order. Usually such orders are big at key support and resistance levels. I am also struggling to identify passive buying/passive selling. But, don't expect to buy/sell at very low or high. You will never get it.
3) Do not look at order flow every bar. Train yourself with identifying support, resistance and trend lines. This is where major activity takes place. Look for conformations in the order flow to get conviction to trade in your direction.

This is how I am doing. if you want I can give you the order flow course. Of course, free of charge


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  #5 (permalink)
Orange County, CA, USA
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Fidelity ATP
Trading: ES/NQ/RTY, Equity ETFs, Options
Posts: 40 since Sep 2018
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I highly recommend these two videos on footprint.

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  #6 (permalink)
Bend Oregon
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: Futures Copper
Posts: 3 since Nov 2021
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received

Thank you all for responding

I decided to focus on copper futures for now because it's volatile but trends so nicely very often during the week and I am committed to only looking at one for now.

I'm not sure about other markets but with copper, the delta goes severely negative as the price continues upward in a really good trend. I find it fascinating! If you want to see it then look at copper on Dec 8th at 9:20 EST. I haven't figured out how to interpret it yet while it's happening but I intend to. I know it's because of passive buyers with limit buy orders and I think maybe it happens because the big players are trying to hide what they are doing because everyone knows that if it's a strong upward trend then the delta would be positive right? NO

Anyway, I really want to learn delta divergence so I googled it today and am so excited because I found a great explanation for many different types of divergence with good examples. I'm going to make copies so I can study it over and over and find it on my historical charts until I know it like the back of my hand. If you want to look at the explanation you can just google Trade the matrix delta divergence.

I've been so frustrated studying for four years and not trading yet, but the footprint and the delta divergence has really excited me. I guess, l like the actual numbers and it just reasons well for me. I've always liked divergence with RSI, but to me, the delta bars along with the footprint fits my personality better than just regular indicators.

I'm really happy that I joined this group.

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  #7 (permalink)
Bend Oregon
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra Chart
Broker: AMP Futures
Trading: Futures Copper
Posts: 3 since Nov 2021
Thanks: 9 given, 0 received

Hi Deetee,

Thanks for sharing those videos. I have watched them several times, sometimes in slow speed just to follow along better at really technical parts. They are great and Brannigan has many more that are just as good. I'm watching them over and over just to get it better. He is a really good teacher!

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  #8 (permalink)
Posts: 15 since Sep 2021
Thanks: 1 given, 6 received

The best use scenarios for delta and footprint are scalping or very short-term transactions.This is very difficult for individual traders.I have used this method to trade crude oil and gold. My stop loss is usually 5-10 ticks, and it takes a very precise timing to make a profit. The stop loss will be triggered when the market suddenly fluctuates quickly that is not conducive to you. So this is basically a way that manual trading is impossible to make a profit. The successful cases you have seen about the use of delta are more of a very small number of cases selected by humans. Although there is a footprint teaching video on axia and I have learned it, many real trading cases of Demetris, the elite trader on axia, do not use footprint or even VP. He is more concerned about the market structure of TPO and price. Delta can only verify your trading plan from the side and give you a kind of confidence in holding positions.Delta is less reliable for the thin order book market, just like the copper and NQ you trade. Such market footprint, VP, delta and other volume indicators are invalid.

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