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Oil price negative?


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Oil price negative?

  #51 (permalink)
 
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 SMCJB 
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Lot of evidence here that IB are negligent.

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  #52 (permalink)
 
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  #53 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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After seeing a historic event in oil - now a sneak preview on effects



We are still at the beginning - things WILL CHANGE in 2020 and after.
Reflections are welcome

GFIs1

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  #54 (permalink)
 
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 AlexSobol 
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We really live in interesting times

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  #55 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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Impact on $

Oil was historically a strong base for gross domestic product in the USA and a most important factor worldwide as oil is traded in US dollar. When oil is nearly nothing worth as we see these days then a main export factor is breaking off. Looking at sales figures worldwide then these numbers are in the cellar. With it the gains too.

A further impact may be come that the longtime legitimization bonus of the $ for oil might be skipped.
Thus the US economy with production and banks will be negatively influenced.
Not to forget that many banks outside of USA (GB, Germany, Switzerland, Arabic states +) are heavily bound with credits especially in oil which now looks very bad for their invested assets.

To be clear - the oil is not THE cause but part of a deflating bubble which was growing since the financial crisis of 2008. The recession is here. Inflation will be weighing heavily for coming years. On all industrial countries.

What does it mean for the trader? One has to observe the currency pairs to the $ carefully in coming months. Plus weighing up the risk that is involved by certain combinations in trading positions when in connection with US currency.

GFIs1

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  #56 (permalink)
 
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 Pa Dax 
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SMCJB View Post
Settlement price will be 37.63. On one lot of QM that's a $18815 difference than selling at 0 and a $27,950 change from Friday night.

@bassa sounds like IB's systems do not allow negative prices. You were unable to liquidate your positions because of flaw in their software. That is 100% their fault and they can not blame any other party. CME has been sending out messages that they would allow prices to go negative for at least two weeks. IB obviously ignored the. Sounds like IB may have some liability there.

This might be a tough fight. From what I saw yesterday using IB TWS was that the charts weren't working but I still had bid and ask prices (negative). I still have them now. Their contracts and agreements on futures trading are pretty solid.
I get an e-mail from IB every time I trade a new contract that the contract description is misleading and that May expires in April. I also get a notification if I hold positions close to expiry and that IB does not support physical delivery and will close out automatically.
However, most importantly, IB wants to see that you tried everything you could to get out of this position and the audit trail of TWS will be required (does the mobile app have audit trail btw?) to see if you tried market orders, whether or not you tried calling their order desk, if you filed a mistrade request, all that. The simple fact that their application didn't work is not enough - I've seen if many times before where the app does something strange and you're not sure if you're in our out of a trade - doesn't matter.

For cancellation requests for example, they state:

Quoting 
For all such trades, a participant in the transaction ("Participant") must notify IBKR within thirty (30) minutes of the execution of the trade by using the Trade Cancellation Request tool located within Account Management. While requests received via telephone will also be processed, such requests may involve wait times which, in the aggregate, may lessen the likelihood that the petition is submitted in time. Please note that IBKR does not support email communications for this purpose and requests sent through the Help & Contacts link on the website are not intended for matters of urgency.

I don't like to be bringing you bad news, but IB will challenge you on the above. You initiated a new position an an expiring contract in a fast down moving market where liquidity had already rolled over and you took it with just hours left till IB demands you to be clear of the contract.

I'm sorry for the loss @bassa but I believe it's better to be realistic than hopeful on this one. I see you're also from the Amsterdam area, send me a pm if you need reference to a lawyer on this subject. I'm from the same area. Again, real shitty that this happened to you. I wish you well.

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  #57 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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@bassa

Help you can get here - best to call IB Zug Switzerland for such problems, even it is late for it - they may give you good advice how to handle it:

Switzerland
Phone: +41417269536

United Kingdom
Phone: +44 207 710 5696

For a second try I have included the London number too.
As a longtime IB client I got help very quickly when in trouble.
Of course on last day for futures or with very wide set stops the client has to know what he does. Such "errors" are quite normal (eg. the MAY contract ends in APRIL) and more.

Have always both phone numbers plus your client number @ hand when you are live trading.

Good luck
GFIs1

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  #58 (permalink)
 mzelixon 
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Guys I don't trade oil anymore but can someone tell me which contract went negative???
The May one?
Because I use NinjaTrader with CQG and I only see it dipping just slightly above zero.
Something must be off.


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  #59 (permalink)
 
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mzelixon View Post
Guys I don't trade oil anymore but can someone tell me which contract went negative???
The May one?
Because I use NinjaTrader with CQG and I only see it dipping just slightly above zero.
Something must be off.


I think it depends on your data provider whether or not they have already adapted to negative prices. Some just stop at 0 or do other strange things.

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  #60 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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@mzelixon

It was the MAY contract (future). It closed yesterday.
Here a chart with the rollover pricing of WTI of TODAY - as we can see the price was near -$20 around midnight CET. Yesterday it went down to around -40$/barrel



GFIs1

PS: I don't trade oil (neither which contract) - neither long nor short.

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