NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





commodity spreads - buying from outright future contracts or is it a specific market?


Discussion in Commodities

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Kurtas with 6 posts (2 thanks)
    2. looks_two durri with 4 posts (0 thanks)
    3. looks_3 datahogg with 3 posts (0 thanks)
    4. looks_4 myrrdin with 3 posts (2 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Fat Tails with 6 thanks per post
    2. looks_two SMCJB with 1 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 0.7 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Kurtas with 0.3 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 11,105 views
    2. thumb_up 11 thanks given
    3. group 8 followers
    1. forum 21 posts
    2. attach_file 2 attachments




 
Search this Thread

commodity spreads - buying from outright future contracts or is it a specific market?

  #11 (permalink)
durri
Berlin + Germany
 
Posts: 9 since Oct 2012
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 0

Thank you Kurtas

@mattz: I think at the beginning is nice to have also charts

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
How to apply profiles
Traders Hideout
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
Exit Strategy
NinjaTrader
PowerLanguage & EasyLanguage. How to get the platfor …
EasyLanguage Programming
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
29 thanks
Just another trading journal: PA, Wyckoff & Trends
25 thanks
Tao te Trade: way of the WLD
24 thanks
Bigger Wins or Fewer Losses?
21 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
17 thanks
  #12 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 3,663 since Jul 2012
Thanks Given: 1,892
Thanks Received: 7,357


durri View Post
I have already understood that trading need patience and also when spreads should be less volatile I cant trade them without SL.

Maybe one more question, what is your favourite trading platform for trading spreads? I didnt found many...


Be VERY careful if you use stop losses, if the spread volume and liquidity are thin. Your stop could easily be picked off, or it might be subject to a lot of slippage. It can be just like using stops in thin regular markets (OJ and lumber for example).


One enticing part of spreads is the use of SPAN margins, which are a lot less. But those positions can move against you quickly, too.

This is a great book, written by a spread trader:
What I Learned Losing a Million Dollars (Columbia Business School Publishing): Jim Paul, Brendan Moynihan, Jack Schwager: 9780231164689: Amazon.com: Books

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)
 
mattz's Avatar
 mattz   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 2,493 since Sep 2010
Thanks Given: 2,441
Thanks Received: 3,791



durri View Post
Thank you Kurtas

@mattz: I think at the beginning is nice to have also charts

I am not a spread trader, but I have asked among some of my customer and they recommended Genesis Trade Navigator. We support this platform via the Rithmic Data Feed.
I have attached a chart I was able to pull for the Crush Spread; Soy Meal and Soy Oil
Again, I am not a spread trader and maybe others would be able to pull out charts on other platforms.

Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
1 800 771 6748 local 561 367 8686 email [email protected]
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)
Kurtas
Brno/Czech Republic
 
Posts: 19 since Feb 2013
Thanks Given: 2
Thanks Received: 7

@durri:

Just one note, if you looking for demo trading platform where you can watch/trade spreads try "think or swim" - it's free

Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)
 datahogg 
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
Posts: 346 since Oct 2012
Thanks Given: 135
Thanks Received: 154


Kurtas View Post
I use IB as broker, but all analysis I do in www.seasonalgo.com - there is a lot of trading tips, backtesting, historical charts etc. You can try their demo - in demo you will get all functions but it's limited only for corn future contracts. It is sufficient for start.


"I use IB as broker" For futures calendar spreads such as (CL Jan - CL Mar) what is the
IB margin? It should be much less than the outright futures? Also does IB quote the calendar spreads as a
single price, and eliminate the need for legging?
Thanks in advance.

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651


datahogg View Post
"I use IB as broker" For futures calendar spreads such as (CL Jan - CL Mar) what is the
IB margin? It should be much less than the outright futures? Also does IB quote the calendar spreads as a
single price, and eliminate the need for legging?
Thanks in advance.

I do not have an IB account any more, and, thus, cannot give you the exact figures regarding margin.

Margin for a futures calendar spread definitely is significantly lower than for an outright future, as long as the expiration dates of the two futures are not too far from each other (= several years).

And, yes, you can place an order for a calendar spread in Crude Oil, and do not have to leg in.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #17 (permalink)
 datahogg 
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
Posts: 346 since Oct 2012
Thanks Given: 135
Thanks Received: 154


myrrdin View Post
I do not have an IB account any more, and, thus, cannot give you the exact figures regarding margin.

Margin for a futures calendar spread definitely is significantly lower than for an outright future, as long as the expiration dates of the two futures are not too far from each other (= several years).

And, yes, you can place an order for a calendar spread in Crude Oil, and do not have to leg in.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Did you have much success with trading futures calendar spreads?

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651


datahogg View Post
Did you have much success with trading futures calendar spreads?

Most of the futures calendar spreads I trade in the meats. As meats can only be stored to a very limited extend futures with different expiry date often almost trade as independent futures.

Sometimes I trade calendar spreads in the grains and beans - there are classical spreads (old crop vs. new crop like the SN-SX) which get a lot of attention.

But I rarely traded calendar spreads in the energies.

And, yes, many of these trades were successful.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)
 datahogg 
Knoxville Tennessee USA
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Trading: ES, NQ, CL, /6E futures options.
Posts: 346 since Oct 2012
Thanks Given: 135
Thanks Received: 154


myrrdin View Post
Most of the futures calendar spreads I trade in the meats. As meats can only be stored to a very limited extend futures with different expiry date often almost trade as independent futures.

Sometimes I trade calendar spreads in the grains and beans - there are classical spreads (old crop vs. new crop like the SN-SX) which get a lot of attention.

But I rarely traded calendar spreads in the energies.

And, yes, many of these trades were successful.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Thanks for your response. Which broker do you find best for spread trading??

Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)
 myrrdin 
Linz Austria
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TWS
Broker: Interactive Brokers
Trading: Commodities
Posts: 1,938 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 3,688
Thanks Received: 2,651



datahogg View Post
Thanks for your response. Which broker do you find best for spread trading??

I work with DeCarley and with RJO. DeCarley offers the best service I ever received from a broker. RJO supplies excellent reports on various commodities. I trade medium and longterm, and often hold positions for weeks or months. Thus, commissions are not as important for me as for daytraders.

If you can live with an average service and pay for good reports, IB certainly is fine as well. (I left them as a large part of my trading is option selling, and they do not support this way of trading.)

I prefer to work with more than one broker to reduce third party risk.

Best regards, Myrrdin

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on December 2, 2015


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts