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The Crude Dude Oil Trading System


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The Crude Dude Oil Trading System

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  #601 (permalink)
 Okina 
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Hi Lancelot,

I see in your post and your video that you are successfully using volume and increase of volume as part of your trading system. But based on my observations I've always find that the most dynamic part of a trend is always in thin volume. To illustrate this you can see in the chart below that shows a 200 ticks intraday down trend (TFLOW bar 10 ticks range) that large volumes can be find during consolidation and at the end of the trend (for TFLOW the "fat and bright" bars = big volume and thin and dark one = small volume).
Volume is not a part of my system even if I know that I'm certainly missing an interesting piece of information but I'm confused because what I see contradict what I've always read about volume ? For me big volume = danger and potential reversal or end of trend while small volume with big price change = nice opportunity and higher probability of profit ?

Thanks in advance for your insights and opinions.

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  #602 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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Okina View Post
Hi Lancelot,

I see in your post and your video that you are successfully using volume and increase of volume as part of your trading system. But based on my observations I've always find that the most dynamic part of a trend is always in thin volume. To illustrate this you can see in the chart below that shows a 200 ticks intraday down trend (TFLOW bar 10 ticks range) that large volumes can be find during consolidation and at the end of the trend (for TFLOW the "fat and bright" bars = big volume and thin and dark one = small volume).
Volume is not a part of my system even if I know that I'm certainly missing an interesting piece of information but I'm confused because what I see contradict what I've always read about volume ? For me big volume = danger and potential reversal or end of trend while small volume with big price change = nice opportunity and higher probability of profit ?

Thanks in advance for your insights and opinions.

Regards,
Okina

Yes, you are correct that often a large amount of accumulated volume can occur at the end of a trend. When I talk about volume..I am referring to looking for changes that are happening in almost real time.
For example, if I look at 1 minute or 5 minute timeframes for volume and see a fairly big reading, that is basically telling me that there was a lot of buying in selling in that timeframe. So, it's past tense...It doesn't mean much more than the fact that 5 minutes ago, a lot of volume came in. Does it mean more will continue to happen? Who knows?
I am looking more at changes in immediate order flow to be used to possibly confirm a setup I am about to enter or to help me decide whether to stay in a trade..and ride it out longer.
One of the first signals I get is from my indicator called tick strike. It will register increased order flow..by making an audible ticking sound along with a meter that has bars that light up. The faster the ticking sound and the more bars that light up..signal the increased order flow that is happening at that moment. Now just because it ticks and lights up isn't enough reason to take a trade..there can be a quick flurry and then nothing happens ..but if it continues strongly..there is usually some strong price movement. For example, yesterday when TF was crashing along with the Dow, the Tick Strike sounded like a machine gun and all the bars were flashing and lit up.
I also can see volume accumulating on a 10 second chart...You have to be able to read it..like what is called Tape Reading...but it does give some hints.
So the bottom line is I am looking for changes in volume that are happening in the moment..not so much what happened 5 minutes ago.

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  #603 (permalink)
 CinderellaMan 
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Agreed. The 10 second volume chart helps me tremendouslyt o confirm an entry. What happened 5 minutes ago is meaningless imo, when working with a tight stop.

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  #604 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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Up 30 ticks as of 9:53 on Cl

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 lancelottrader 
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Not loving this price action...a bit chaotic...I may stop with my 30 ticks up for the day. Have to do a few things anyhow.

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  #606 (permalink)
 jas12 
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hi lance thanks for ur posting can u tell what is black moving ave line?

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  #607 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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jas12 View Post
hi lance thanks for ur posting can u tell what is black moving ave line?

It is just part of the Logical Forex Charts...I'm not sure what the exact parameters are..I just know that it helps me spot good entries.

Here's a few scalps today. Up about 30 ticks so far..We are getting some strong moves up..I probably should be holding for bigger targets today.

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  #608 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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Scalping down now. 10 more. Up 40 ticks.

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  #609 (permalink)
 Tap In 
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Great job! Really appreciate your postings.

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  #610 (permalink)
 jas12 
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very nice lance, please can u make small video only for 10 second volume just want to see how you look volume because in 10 second volume one bar with high volume next bars with small voume I mean some time volume bars are with low volume like 35 40 65 70 and then suddenly high volume 100 200 400 only one bar or two bar after that again small volume 40 50 70 like that you say you look for entry when volume change you look just one bar or two bar for high volume change?

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 lancelottrader 
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Two more trades... Lost 1 tick..then won 10. Up 50 for day..

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 lancelottrader 
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jas12 View Post
very nice lance, please can u make small video only for 10 second volume just want to see how you look volume because in 10 second volume one bar with high volume next bars with small voume I mean some time volume bars are with low volume like 35 40 65 70 and then suddenly high volume 100 200 400 only one bar or two bar after that again small volume 40 50 70 like that you say you look for entry when volume change you look just one bar or two bar for high volume change?

Honestly..I use my tick strike more for confirmation than the 10 second.... but when 500 to 1000 contract bars start showing up on the 10 second chart..That's a good sign some real order flow is coming in.

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 jas12 
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thanks lance

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 lancelottrader 
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30 tick winner for 80 ticks total. Nice day for golf...think I may go play a round.

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 lancelottrader 
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Actually..in this right now..

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 lancelottrader 
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And....a nice 20 tick pop...100 tick day. Yes, I am very happy!! lol

Like I have said before..when the market is offering you money (through extremely strong buying or selling pressure)...you need to take it!
When the market is crap...Stay out!

Failure is not an option
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 atata 
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lancelottrader View Post
It is just part of the Logical Forex Charts...I'm not sure what the exact parameters are..I just know that it helps me spot good entries.

Here's a few scalps today. Up about 30 ticks so far..We are getting some strong moves up..I probably should be holding for bigger targets today.

It was tough to hold on for bigger targets since basically the cl was grinding up. I've got stopped out a few times or just decided to take 15 ticks or so got 34 ticks and stopped trading. Bears are still very much alive. Also noticed that the RB and HO did not quite worked in tandem with cl today... right now HO is selling off hard so is RB so cl might go along...

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  #618 (permalink)
 atata 
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lancelottrader View Post
And....a nice 20 tick pop...100 tick day. Yes, I am very happy!! lol

Like I have said before..when the market is offering you money (through extremely strong buying or selling pressure)...you need to take it!
When the market is crap...Stay out!

Nice job!!!

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  #619 (permalink)
 Okina 
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Hi Lancelot, I have added the sound on my system and now I can keep my eyes on the charts thanks a lot for the tip it really helps a lot. i have kept the same system than before but know I wait for the typical sub machine gun sound to take my signals.

Thanks
Okina

(For people using cqg no need for indicator to add sound on order flow it is an option that you can set up with the DOM)

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 Srq1 
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atata View Post
It was tough to hold on for bigger targets since basically the cl was grinding up. I've got stopped out a few times or just decided to take 15 ticks or so got 34 ticks and stopped trading. Bears are still very much alive. Also noticed that the RB and HO did not quite worked in tandem with cl today... right now HO is selling off hard so is RB so cl might go along...

Sorry
RO and HO, mean what?
Thanks
Srq1

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 steve2222 
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Srq1 View Post
Sorry
RO and HO, mean what?
Thanks
Srq1

HO is Heating Oil futures contract on CME
Not sure about RO - maybe it was meant to be RB - Gasoline

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 lancelottrader 
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Okina View Post
Hi Lancelot, I have added the sound on my system and now I can keep my eyes on the charts thanks a lot for the tip it really helps a lot. i have kept the same system than before but know I wait for the typical sub machine gun sound to take my signals.

Thanks
Okina

(For people using cqg no need for indicator to add sound on order flow it is an option that you can set up with the DOM)

I didn't know that..I don't have that data feed..I get the sound from tick strike..

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  #623 (permalink)
 Okina 
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lancelottrader View Post
I didn't know that..I don't have that data feed..I get the sound from tick strike..

I spoke about the trading platform/service from CQG not the data feed.

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 Srq1 
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Okina View Post
Hi Lancelot, I have added the sound on my system and now I can keep my eyes on the charts thanks a lot for the tip it really helps a lot. i have kept the same system than before but know I wait for the typical sub machine gun sound to take my signals.

Thanks
Okina

(For people using cqg no need for indicator to add sound on order flow it is an option that you can set up with the DOM)

Hello Okina
Can you tell me how to set up the sound /sub-machine gun alert on the DOM ?
Thank you for the help
srq1

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 atata 
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steve2222 View Post
HO is Heating Oil futures contract on CME
Not sure about RO - maybe it was meant to be RB - Gasoline

Sorry for the typo! I've meant HO and RB of course.
If you look at the charts it becomes obvious they are like 3 musketeers... meaning most of the time they move together. It is somewhat similar situation than how the index futures are moving NQ, YM, TF and ES.
I've saw it quite often that the ES, NQ, YM are pushing to new highs yet the TF is showing weakness and going sideways / lower which is showing divergence and will resolve it itself one way or the other. The roles of course change time to time so context is always important.

I trade the CL but keep an eye of the other 2...

Usually divergence will slow down/reverse a break out move to the upside or downside.
I don't recall lately seeing the CL let say going to new highs while RB and HO making LL and LH.
Such situation would invalidate CL break out and trap longs.

The way I play break out to new highs or lows
a/ look at the tape and DOS similar what lancelotte is doing just different tools - and want to see a big players buying or selling
b/ I glance at the HO and RB if they are in similar state that gives me more comfort to hang on for the ride...

hope this helps...

atata

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  #626 (permalink)
 Okina 
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Srq1 View Post
Hello Okina
Can you tell me how to set up the sound /sub-machine gun alert on the DOM ?
Thank you for the help
srq1

right click on the speaker icon on the DOM it will open the sound board preference window and after select the conditions that will create a sound and select the sound you want :

(PS it works very well now my dog barks when the market is active lol... and I must add that usually my dog never barks it is an English bulldog and he is very quiet)


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 lancelottrader 
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I'm in this one ..holding for 20 ticks.

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 lancelottrader 
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Target filled.

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 jas12 
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thanks lancelott for posting we missed you in last couple of day

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 lancelottrader 
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In this now..holding for 20.

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 lancelottrader 
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This one is requiring a lot of patience. Not sure it's going to make the target.

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 lancelottrader 
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Still holding though

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 CinderellaMan 
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Slow day on CL. Down 4 ticks so far.

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 lancelottrader 
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Finally . Target reached

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 lancelottrader 
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MetsFanTrader View Post
Slow day on CL. Down 4 ticks so far.

Just saw your message. Thanks for the charts..Some nice trades there.

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  #636 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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Now price is exploding up..However..this can be a great opportunity for a reversal move..if it hits some serious resistance.

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 lancelottrader 
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Might have a little reversal already.

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 lancelottrader 
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Got out at breakeven on that one.

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 lancelottrader 
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Saw some order flow to the downside come in..Took a short. May only go for 10.

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 lancelottrader 
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Didn't like this either..Scratched it.

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  #641 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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Scalped 10 here on some strong order flow up. Almost 50 ticks on day.

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 atata 
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lancelottrader View Post
Target filled.

you should've go for that extra 2 ticks...

This was a good one. I am just scalping and fading... and went for 10 ticks at a time and moved my stop very tight
Thanks for sharing.

atata

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  #643 (permalink)
 CinderellaMan 
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Good job today Lance, as usual. I went ahead and started a journal on here if you'd like to follow.


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gobeagle
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lancelottrader View Post
Target filled.

HI Lance, as a beginner, I've been following your journal for the last few months. Tremendous help for me and I'm sure many like me who have never posted before. Best journal ever! You shorted .88. Was the .80ish level ( usually a strong S\R level in Crude) a concern before getting in the trade?
Thanks

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 lancelottrader 
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gobeagle View Post
HI Lance, as a beginner, I've been following your journal for the last few months. Tremendous help for me and I'm sure many like me who have never posted before. Best journal ever! You shorted .88. Was the .80ish level ( usually a strong S\R level in Crude) a concern before getting in the trade?
Thanks

Thank you for the nice words! I haven't really thought about the .80 level being a strong s/r..but now that you mention it, may be I should look at that more. I just felt on the first trade that the there was a lot of volume coming in fast to the downside..plus it was very early into the session when you can get strong moves.

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 lancelottrader 
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MetsFanTrader View Post
Good job today Lance, as usual. I went ahead and started a journal on here if you'd like to follow.


I'll check it out. Thanks.

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 CinderellaMan 
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Hello Lance. Just wanted to wish you happy holidays. Hope you did well today. Have a good weekend.

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 lancelottrader 
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MetsFanTrader View Post
Hello Lance. Just wanted to wish you happy holidays. Hope you did well today. Have a good weekend.

Hi thanks..same to you. I didn't do much today and didn't start watching until after 10 am. Took 4 trades.. 1. 10 tick loss. 2. 10 tick win, 3. 10 tick win . 4. 10 tick win. total 20 ticks.

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  #649 (permalink)
emini2000
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So how's the trading been going Lance?

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  #650 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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emini2000 View Post
So how's the trading been going Lance?

It's been going very well. I think I've been making extra progress in some areas such as holding for bigger targets when I see large amounts of volatility happening. Also, I've been getting better trading TF along with my CL. It can move very quick so I have been using an ATM trailing strategy that works well on fast moving trades. It basically breaks even at 15 ticks and then trails 15. I often target 40 to 50 ticks and the trail leaves a little room without giving up too much profit. I don't use it on all the TF trades. Only under certain conditions.
That strategy is not for CL.

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 wshi88 
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Lance,

Your initial stop for TF is 20 ticks?



lancelottrader View Post
It's been going very well. I think I've been making extra progress in some areas such as holding for bigger targets when I see large amounts of volatility happening. Also, I've been getting better trading TF along with my CL. It can move very quick so I have been using an ATM trailing strategy that works well on fast moving trades. It basically breaks even at 15 ticks and then trails 15. I often target 40 to 50 ticks and the trail leaves a little room without giving up too much profit. I don't use it on all the TF trades. Only under certain conditions.
That strategy is not for CL.


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 lancelottrader 
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wshi88 View Post
Lance,

Your initial stop for TF is 20 ticks?

No, usually it's 15.

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awaddle
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I just want to say that this is such a helpful thread. When I was researching a system and how to trade futures when I first started about 6 months ago, I wish I had found this thread. The system I was designing with soft code was sort of along the same lines as this. I traded for about 4 and a half months and ended up blowing up an account due to not following rules or restrictions that I had set for myself. I'm currently recovering psychologically from my loss, the account was not worth much but I focus on percentage PnL rather than actual amounts. I'm just now revisiting the system and am using your trading style to give the improvements I'm making to my system some direction. Please keep this thread going, and from a true fan, good luck!

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 lancelottrader 
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awaddle View Post
I just want to say that this is such a helpful thread. When I was researching a system and how to trade futures when I first started about 6 months ago, I wish I had found this thread. The system I was designing with soft code was sort of along the same lines as this. I traded for about 4 and a half months and ended up blowing up an account due to not following rules or restrictions that I had set for myself. I'm currently recovering psychologically from my loss, the account was not worth much but I focus on percentage PnL rather than actual amounts. I'm just now revisiting the system and am using your trading style to give the improvements I'm making to my system some direction. Please keep this thread going, and from a true fan, good luck!

Thank you. I highly appreciate your comments. While I realize that duplicating someone's system without having all the same components and experience is virtually impossible, I think there are some basic principals that one can use and adapt. Here they are:
1. I have the belief that there are conditions of the market that can be observed that often result in repeatable events. I have found these moments from seven years of observing price movement on a variety of time frames simultaneously. In other words, I am watching 2 range, 1 minute, 5 minute charts at the same time and observing the correlation between order flow, momentum and price action patterns. There are times when I can very accurately assume that price will move at least 10 to 40 ticks while maintaining a very small risk. Those are the moments I wait for and act when I see them arise.

2. Support and resistance can occur on all time frames and can affect price movement even on small timeframes. For example there are areas visible on a 2 range chart, that you can't see on say a 5 minute chart. I map out all areas and color code them according to how significant I feel they will be. For example, if I think an area may cause a bounce ..but not a dramatic reversal, I code it yellow. Stronger areas are red. I make sure before I trade, these areas are mapped out. I even pay attention to those that are occurring in real time. The less areas of resistance and support in front of a target, the easier price will move towards that target.

3. It is not enough to have some price action setups..You must understand the conditions they work best in. You need to know the prevailing conditions of the day and be aware what's happening in real time. Pullback trades work well in certain conditions..Range reversals work in certain conditions....Know your setups, know the type of volatility they work best in and only trade those setups during those moments. This eliminates excessive speculation and guessing.

4. Avoid trading in "BattleZone Areas." There are areas that could be extreme levels of support and resistance or highs or lows of the day..etc..where the sellers and the buyers are waging war. I used to try to play a lot of breakouts or reversals in these areas and get stopped out a great deal of the time. Now I like to see what appears to be proof that one side has won the battle..and find a way to time in an entry.. Getting into these trades too soon makes one assume more risk than my system calls for.

5. One must be aware of their emotional weaknesses and formulate measures to correct them. I found that taking two to three losses in a row would cause me to shift and start trading erratically. I found ways to finally get this under control. One thing that helps is to verbalize a commentary of price movement throughout the session..including how I am feeling at that moment. I will verbalize that I am "tempted to jump back in" or that I am angry..etc. This way, those feelings aren't silently in my head influencing me. I might talk about how the market is choppy and that it's "Ok not to trade right now..and that there is no hurry to go back in and win my ticks back..and that I will win in the long run." The idea is be in total control at all times. One moment of erratic behavior can have devastating consequences. Been there, done that!

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  #655 (permalink)
 bobwest 
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lancelottrader View Post
5. One must be aware of their emotional weaknesses and formulate measures to correct them. I found that taking two to three losses in a row would cause me to shift and start trading erratically. I found ways to finally get this under control. One thing that helps is to verbalize a commentary of price movement throughout the session..including how I am feeling at that moment. I will verbalize that I am "tempted to jump back in" or that I am angry..etc. This way, those feelings aren't silently in my head influencing me. I might talk about how the market is choppy and that it's "Ok not to trade right now..and that there is no hurry to go back in and win my ticks back..and that I will win in the long run." The idea is be in total control at all times. One moment of erratic behavior can have devastating consequences. Been there, done that!

The whole post is good, but I think this will turn out to be very helpful. I've definitely been there, and need a way to get it under control.

Thanks for the idea.

Bob.

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 cory 
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bobwest View Post
The whole post is good, but I think this will turn out to be very helpful. I've definitely been there, and need a way to get it under control.

Thanks for the idea.

Bob.

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 lancelottrader 
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Marc Abell View Post
Personally my attitude to this based on an obvious fact that, when people keep looking at all these formulas , ratios, indicators and search for all these systems. In a trending smooth market, lots of systems will work! There is one single BUT - when market conditions change, the system no longer works. And then, the real search begins.

I agree with you a 100%. which is why I wrote this in my last post : It is not enough to have some price action setups..You must understand the conditions they work best in. You need to know the prevailing conditions of the day and be aware what's happening in real time. Pullback trades work well in certain conditions..Range reversals work in certain conditions....Know your setups, know the type of volatility they work best in and only trade those setups during those moments. This eliminates excessive speculation and guessing.

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daddy
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lancelottrader View Post
I agree with you a 100%. which is why I wrote this in my last post : It is not enough to have some price action setups..You must understand the conditions they work best in. You need to know the prevailing conditions of the day and be aware what's happening in real time. Pullback trades work well in certain conditions..Range reversals work in certain conditions....Know your setups, know the type of volatility they work best in and only trade those setups during those moments. This eliminates excessive speculation and guessing.

Lance, I just would like to say, that I always read your posts with constant nodding with my head. Sometimes I feel that you write down my thoughts. Thank you for the great thread!

To a beginner trader, Id also recommend these:
a) Dont try to look for a magic system, forget holy grails entirely. Not even Lances system. As Lance wrote, it is impossible to duplicate a system, one can boil down his very own method, tailored to his experience, personality, and risk taking ability. What works for Lance, wont work for you, but of course you can learn a lot from his method. Use his thoughts as bricks to your system. (Once I had a mentor in option trading, I copied his system entirely. I had a terrible loss on a trade, and I asked him if he took a trade around that time. It turned out, that on the very same day, at the very same price he took exactly the trade I took. Surprise! He won on the very same trade, simply he had more balls to sit)

b) Be patient. Very patient. It will take years to become succesful, nothing beats screentime.

Im happy that you made it, and you definitely in the 5th stage of 5 steps to becoming a successful day trader. Unfortunately, it seems its happening as its written in the 5th step: you grow out of the chat rooms and find a few choice people who you converse with about the markets without being influenced at all, Im sorry to see you post less.

May the probability be with you

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  #659 (permalink)
 lancelottrader 
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daddy View Post
Lance, I just would like to say, that I always read your posts with constant nodding with my head. Sometimes I feel that you write down my thoughts. Thank you for the great thread!

To a beginner trader, Id also recommend these:
a) Dont try to look for a magic system, forget holy grails entirely. Not even Lances system. As Lance wrote, it is impossible to duplicate a system, one can boil down his very own method, tailored to his experience, personality, and risk taking ability. What works for Lance, wont work for you, but of course you can learn a lot from his method. Use his thoughts as bricks to your system. (Once I had a mentor in option trading, I copied his system entirely. I had a terrible loss on a trade, and I asked him if he took a trade around that time. It turned out, that on the very same day, at the very same price he took exactly the trade I took. Surprise! He won on the very same trade, simply he had more balls to sit)

b) Be patient. Very patient. It will take years to become succesful, nothing beats screentime.

Im happy that you made it, and you definitely in the 5th stage of 5 steps to becoming a successful day trader. Unfortunately, it seems its happening as its written in the 5th step: you grow out of the chat rooms and find a few choice people who you converse with about the markets without being influenced at all, Im sorry to see you post less.

May the probability be with you

Some very good points in your post. Thank you for your ideas.

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 Dervakon 
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Hi Lance,

I would like to thank you again, your thread have a lot of value for me. I'm so glad that you succeed like that and I'm very happy for you

Since couple week I start to work on my self, my mind and my way to think in trading. I decide to stay away from forum and some chat to focus on me to know me better. I like the way you trade and it was a system like yours I always want to trade. So I was able to find my way base of what you have show us since you have start your system. Now it work, my system work, but I know I still have work to do in my mind. I start to figure out that all this time the problem wasn't the system ,the market but ME. The way I think are the source of my problem, my attachment for my result are the reason of my failure. I have read so many times, to just trade your system leave your emotion on the side etc... But I didn't understand the reason behind that.

Now I'm able to close my computer when I reach my daily stop loss, witch is for me a really good start. I work hard to be able to accept my losing day and move on. When I close my computer I don't feel angry anymore but more peaceful. I said to my self:"Tomorrow it a other day..."

BUT, I still have problem when I'm winning, I got difficulty to continue trading when the market is on my way, I start to be afraid (I really feel it on my body, it really uncomfortable) to lose what I have done but on the same time when I saw what I had leave on the market I'm angry about me because I should trade my system don't think about my result just trade my system

I know that you have work on this issue and you're able to take a lot of trade when the market are on your side. If I can ask you a question, what are the trick, the work or the mind set you use to overcome the fear of continuing trading on yours really good days?

Thanks for your help, you have share a lot of value insight in your thread, the way you think make me remember some of great people who fallow there path when other discourage them...

Thomas Edison, the light...(try 3000 times before the first good one)
Graham Bell... invent the phone
Roger Bannister... first man to run a mile under 4 min,
Albert Einstein... E=mc2
and many more...

All people said to them it was IMPOSSIBLE, but they fallow there Idea and they because great person

Thanks you to fallow your idea...

When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be successful
-Eric Thomas
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  #661 (permalink)
 Okina 
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Hi Lance,

I really miss reading your posts and looking at your trades.

I want to thank you very much for your contribution. For month I have struggling on how to incorporate volume in my trading system. And each time I tried a new idea it was not working. At some point I completely discarded this important information and my system was not so profitable. I knew I had to do something but I didn't knew what. And I found your trading journal. I read avidly all your posts, I watched some of your video and for my trading system it has been like night and day.

Thanks again and good trading

Okina Tora.

R.I.P. Olivier Terrier (aka "Okina"), 1969-2016.
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 lancelottrader 
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Dervakon View Post
Hi Lance,

I would like to thank you again, your thread have a lot of value for me. I'm so glad that you succeed like that and I'm very happy for you

Since couple week I start to work on my self, my mind and my way to think in trading. I decide to stay away from forum and some chat to focus on me to know me better. I like the way you trade and it was a system like yours I always want to trade. So I was able to find my way base of what you have show us since you have start your system. Now it work, my system work, but I know I still have work to do in my mind. I start to figure out that all this time the problem wasn't the system ,the market but ME. The way I think are the source of my problem, my attachment for my result are the reason of my failure. I have read so many times, to just trade your system leave your emotion on the side etc... But I didn't understand the reason behind that.

Now I'm able to close my computer when I reach my daily stop loss, witch is for me a really good start. I work hard to be able to accept my losing day and move on. When I close my computer I don't feel angry anymore but more peaceful. I said to my self:"Tomorrow it a other day..."

BUT, I still have problem when I'm winning, I got difficulty to continue trading when the market is on my way, I start to be afraid (I really feel it on my body, it really uncomfortable) to lose what I have done but on the same time when I saw what I had leave on the market I'm angry about me because I should trade my system don't think about my result just trade my system

I know that you have work on this issue and you're able to take a lot of trade when the market are on your side. If I can ask you a question, what are the trick, the work or the mind set you use to overcome the fear of continuing trading on yours really good days?

Thanks for your help, you have share a lot of value insight in your thread, the way you think make me remember some of great people who fallow there path when other discourage them...

Thomas Edison, the light...(try 3000 times before the first good one)
Graham Bell... invent the phone
Roger Bannister... first man to run a mile under 4 min,
Albert Einstein... E=mc2
and many more...

All people said to them it was IMPOSSIBLE, but they fallow there Idea and they because great person

Thanks you to fallow your idea...

Hi there. It sounds like you are making some progress and you are right about how important the mental side of this is. I have had a decent system for a while, but my mind and emotions prevented me from being consistent for years. Mastering that has been the biggest challenge.
I understand not wanting to keep going on a good day, for fear of losing back your wins. One thing I do sometimes is to have a "trailing loss for the day" once I am up. For example, if I am up 50 ticks or so, I decide what is the most I am willing to lose back for the day. So, maybe I might decide, I will only allow myself to lose back 10 ticks and quit on a 40 tick day. Or if I am seeing what I think is huge momentum, then I might not want to limit myself to only one more loss. I might allow 20 ticks of loss and stop at 30 for the day. It depends on what kind of day I am seeing.
However, if you are up nicely on the day and it is getting late..and the market isn't surging..you might want to quit while you are up.
Also, if you continue to trade while you are up nicely, you have to totally accept you might lose the next few trades and end up even or a little down on the day. That seems terrible, but the other possibility is you could have a huge winning day. If you can accept losing everything back (or a little back)..and you don't fear it....and the market is giving you a setup that you really, really like..then take it. If not, just quit on a good day.

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 lancelottrader 
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Things are continuing to go well and I have been still consistently hitting my minimum tick goal each week, I did, however, have a few weeks where I took several impulsive trades that did not meet my criteria. Most all of these trades lost and I found myself spending many sessions just having to make up for the early losses.

As I reviewed my performance and watched my recorded sessions, I realized I was not following certain steps of my system. I imagine after being consistent for a while, I started operating on "auto-pilot." In other words, when I "felt" like something was a good trade, I just jumped in without hesitation. After all, I figured I've been doing this so long that my brain should just automatically recognize a good setup and there shouldn't be any need for much thought.

Now, I know they are some very good traders out there that don't need much examination of an entry..They just put on a trade and if it works in their favor, they add more contracts on. If it goes against them, they might hold for 50 ticks or more of heat before bailing. They don't really concern themselves with thing such as "market conditions" and things that I pay a lot of attention to. I, however, am not one of these traders. I go "all in, all out." I always put on a full position, since my statistics prove I have a certain win percentage and weekly target. All I care about is building my account until I can trade the maximum possible amount of contracts and just continue to do what I have been doing.

Well, I realized a big part of my system was doing a verbal commentary on what price was doing, what potential setups were appearing, and looking for any adverse reasons not to take the trade. There are so many tempting moves every day that it is easy to see setups all the time. But I realized a while ago, that I could not trust the multitude of silent thoughts and impulses that go through my head at any given moment while trading. "Wait this is moving down fast...I better jump in now!" Never mind that there's some serious support right underneath..or maybe the price is just wildly swinging up and down..with no real direction.
That's why by announcing the setup type ( I have about 4), I know it fits into my parameters. Also, by doing a quick checklist (looking at a higher timeframes, looking for price congestion areas in the way of my target, determining if there is enough momentum, looking at the context of overall market conditions so far), I can make an informed decision whether to take the trade or pass on it.

I know now, that I need to keep doing all the exact same things that have helped me be consistent all these months. As much as I like the idea of trading with "unconscious competence", I can not skip any of my steps. Each step was formulated to compensate for a weakness I had, and they were all there for a reason .
The good news is that I still had winning weeks even though I made a lot of mistakes...and I am definitely back on track, again.

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  #664 (permalink)
 CinderellaMan 
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lancelottrader View Post
Things are continuing to go well and I have been still consistently hitting my minimum tick goal each week, I did, however, have a few weeks where I took several impulsive trades that did not meet my criteria. Most all of these trades lost and I found myself spending many sessions just having to make up for the early losses.

As I reviewed my performance and watched my recorded sessions, I realized I was not following certain steps of my system. I imagine after being consistent for a while, I started operating on "auto-pilot." In other words, when I "felt" like something was a good trade, I just jumped in without hesitation. After all, I figured I've been doing this so long that my brain should just automatically recognize a good setup and there shouldn't be any need for much thought.

Now, I know they are some very good traders out there that don't need much examination of an entry..They just put on a trade and if it works in their favor, they add more contracts on. If it goes against them, they might hold for 50 ticks or more of heat before bailing. They don't really concern themselves with thing such as "market conditions" and things that I pay a lot of attention to. I, however, am not one of these traders. I go "all in, all out." I always put on a full position, since my statistics prove I have a certain win percentage and weekly target. All I care about is building my account until I can trade the maximum possible amount of contracts and just continue to do what I have been doing.

Well, I realized a big part of my system was doing a verbal commentary on what price was doing, what potential setups were appearing, and looking for any adverse reasons not to take the trade. There are so many tempting moves every day that it is easy to see setups all the time. But I realized a while ago, that I could not trust the multitude of silent thoughts and impulses that go through my head at any given moment while trading. "Wait this is moving down fast...I better jump in now!" Never mind that there's some serious support right underneath..or maybe the price is just wildly swinging up and down..with no real direction.
That's why by announcing the setup type ( I have about 4), I know it fits into my parameters. Also, by doing a quick checklist (looking at a higher timeframes, looking for price congestion areas in the way of my target, determining if there is enough momentum, looking at the context of overall market conditions so far), I can make an informed decision whether to take the trade or pass on it.

I know now, that I need to keep doing all the exact same things that have helped me be consistent all these months. As much as I like the idea of trading with "unconscious competence", I can not skip any of my steps. Each step was formulated to compensate for a weakness I had, and they were all there for a reason .
The good news is that I still had winning weeks even though I made a lot of mistakes...and I am definitely back on track, again.

Great to hear about your continued success. I think I speak for many people when I say that you are an inspiration to us.

Thank you for this post. This is something I need to keep reminding myself of, and Im a beginner! Sometimes, I'll have a run of great days/weeks, and I'll think "Ok, this is easy, I got this!", then I just get hammered by the market. I still have not tried the commentary, will try soon. Little by little though, I am getting better with the impulses and emotions. Next step is patience, and WAITING. The key for me is waiting. I cant tell you how many times waiting a little longer would put me in a great winning trade with a better entry and less risk. I think I will be ready soon, thanks in large part to Lance and this amazing thread.

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BlueRoo
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Lance and other members...I hope you are well...the year has certainly made for some interesting trading...through February I completed 15 days of trading about 3 hours a day...my summary results are below...any feedback is welcome...


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 rajafx1 
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Hi Lance,
I came across your thread today.
Seems very very interesting. I want to know that from which post number should i start reading the post as it started couple of years ago. Let me know from which post it is good start to start learning the current method you are using.

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 lancelottrader 
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rajafx1 View Post
Hi Lance,
I came across your thread today.
Seems very very interesting. I want to know that from which post number should i start reading the post as it started couple of years ago. Let me know from which post it is good start to start learning the current method you are using.

I think from about post #241 is a good place to start.

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 lancelottrader 
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BlueRoo View Post
Lance and other members...I hope you are well...the year has certainly made for some interesting trading...through February I completed 15 days of trading about 3 hours a day...my summary results are below...any feedback is welcome...


Hi there. This looks like exceptional trading. I seem to remember you posting something like this a while back. I would be interested in knowing a little more about your style of trading. For example, are you trading mostly CL?..what is your entry criteria?..etc. Obviously you are getting good results, so perhaps you could elaborate more on what you are doing.

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Lance, I am not sure if I would call it exceptional trading...It is hard to judge without know what type of daily gains other day traders achieve. What I do know is that it has take me a year and hard work to get to this stage. But I am very grateful...because to know that your trading plan is successful and repeatable is a real reward. Here is a quick attempt to answer your questions...

Okay here is some reflection...
...when I first started trading futures it was to hedge my option selling...I then started to see it could work...so I look to have a winning trade per day of say 50 ticks...Sam Kinchin then talked to me about writing a trading plan and for the past 2 years this has been my primary focus and driver to trading...about the middle of last year I asked myself about what are my trading goals...It was then that I considered it was reasonable to have 3 winning trades per day and gain 300-400 per trade to make a 1K day...I then said why not a 4K week and a 12K month...So this approach became the goals stated in my trading plan...now my option selling trades can be as long a 60 days and they are truly EOD trades...so approaching futures I transferred this thinking from option selling to futures....but that did not translated...mainly because of psychology...So to get my 1K day I took an intraday approach and short quick trades based MA crossovers...because that is where I believe momentum is born...So my style has become to take and hold multiple trades for 30-50 ticks with CL ZB ES and EC...my setups occur regularly through the day on these and I am fortunate enough to be able to handle the margin requirement...for me this thread is about reflecting and looking at my approach and continuing to explore goal based trading...

My entry criteria for a trade is to use the hour chart and the 1500vol chart and confirm that the 21 and 75ma are sloping in favour of the direction in which I am trading...so my two primary trades setups are...

Spine Break
If a price bar breaks the spine in favour of the vein, enter at the value of the spine or on the confirmation bar.

Vein Break
If a price bar breaks the vein in favour of the spine, enter at the value of the vein or on the confirmation bar.

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 bobwest 
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BlueRoo View Post
My entry criteria for a trade is to use the hour chart and the 1500vol chart and confirm that the 21 and 75ma are sloping in favour of the direction in which I am trading...so my two primary trades setups are...

Spine Break
If a price bar breaks the spine in favour of the vein, enter at the value of the spine or on the confirmation bar.

Vein Break
If a price bar breaks the vein in favour of the spine, enter at the value of the vein or on the confirmation bar.

Spine? Vein? Can you explain?

Interesting post, though.

Bob.

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BlueRoo
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bobwest View Post
Spine? Vein? Can you explain?

Bob.


Bob, I am a chart reader rather than an indicator follower. Therefore the observed price action on my charts need to have an observable synchronicity...this idea is at the heart of the spine and the vein...specific references to anatomy intended...essentially the spine is your slow ma and the vein is your fast ma...you can choose whatever gives you what you observe for example...price action should respect for the most part the spine and vein as support and resistance...it is not hard and should not be over analyzed...simple is the best...

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 lancelottrader 
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BlueRoo View Post
Lance, I am not sure if I would call it exceptional trading...It is hard to judge without know what type of daily gains other day traders achieve. What I do know is that it has take me a year and hard work to get to this stage. But I am very grateful...because to know that your trading plan is successful and repeatable is a real reward. Here is a quick attempt to answer your questions...

Okay here is some reflection...
...when I first started trading futures it was to hedge my option selling...I then started to see it could work...so I look to have a winning trade per day of say 50 ticks...Sam Kinchin then talked to me about writing a trading plan and for the past 2 years this has been my primary focus and driver to trading...about the middle of last year I asked myself about what are my trading goals...It was then that I considered it was reasonable to have 3 winning trades per day and gain 300-400 per trade to make a 1K day...I then said why not a 4K week and a 12K month...So this approach became the goals stated in my trading plan...now my option selling trades can be as long a 60 days and they are truly EOD trades...so approaching futures I transferred this thinking from option selling to futures....but that did not translated...mainly because of psychology...So to get my 1K day I took an intraday approach and short quick trades based MA crossovers...because that is where I believe momentum is born...So my style has become to take and hold multiple trades for 30-50 ticks with CL ZB ES and EC...my setups occur regularly through the day on these and I am fortunate enough to be able to handle the margin requirement...for me this thread is about reflecting and looking at my approach and continuing to explore goal based trading...

My entry criteria for a trade is to use the hour chart and the 1500vol chart and confirm that the 21 and 75ma are sloping in favour of the direction in which I am trading...so my two primary trades setups are...

Spine Break
If a price bar breaks the spine in favour of the vein, enter at the value of the spine or on the confirmation bar.

Vein Break
If a price bar breaks the vein in favour of the spine, enter at the value of the vein or on the confirmation bar.

Thank you for your explanation. And I assure you, your results are very good. If you can actually continue to hit your numbers and keep leveraging over time, you should be able to make a very large sum of money.

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Thank you for your explanation. And I assure you, your results are very good. If you can actually continue to hit your numbers and keep leveraging over time, you should be able to make a very large sum of money.

Lance, I think that is my focus to be able to repeat what I am doing for a number of months rather than go off looking to improve my results by changing anything...

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 mrmuggins 
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Hi lance you have been an inspiration to me. And probably many others. Although I do not trade like you, I prefer to go for smallish targets. Unfortunately too many people seem to believe the only way to be successful in this business is to go for 20 pts ES trades, when three 6 pts trades is just as good without the drawdowns, and less emotional or stressful.

Keep doing what you do. And be successful as you have been.

Regards,

Dudley

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 paps 
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Have to agree with @mrmuggins. Am sure there are many great threads on the forum. However some of the greatest talents of trading is present in this thread and I do love to read this thread. Taking out serious $s without large targets is an art and is really not a scalp if someone is taking 4 to 6pts per ES trade or what Lance does. Simply awesome.

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 steve2222 
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BlueRoo View Post
...So my style has become to take and hold multiple trades for 30-50 ticks with CL ZB ES and EC...my setups occur regularly through the day

@BlueRoo

I don't want to derail Lancelottrader's great thread, but given we both come from the same part of the world what time of the day are you trading the US markets eg in USA Eastern Sate time?

At present (while we are on day light saving) 10am USA ET is 4am in Auckland and I guess it is about 1am in Brisbane.

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 Drd13 
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Lance, I am not sure if I would call it exceptional trading...It is hard to judge without know what type of daily gains other day traders achieve. What I do know is that it has take me a year and hard work to get to this stage. But I am very grateful...because to know that your trading plan is successful and repeatable is a real reward. Here is a quick attempt to answer your questions...

Okay here is some reflection...
...when I first started trading futures it was to hedge my option selling...I then started to see it could work...so I look to have a winning trade per day of say 50 ticks...Sam Kinchin then talked to me about writing a trading plan and for the past 2 years this has been my primary focus and driver to trading...about the middle of last year I asked myself about what are my trading goals...It was then that I considered it was reasonable to have 3 winning trades per day and gain 300-400 per trade to make a 1K day...I then said why not a 4K week and a 12K month...So this approach became the goals stated in my trading plan...now my option selling trades can be as long a 60 days and they are truly EOD trades...so approaching futures I transferred this thinking from option selling to futures....but that did not translated...mainly because of psychology...So to get my 1K day I took an intraday approach and short quick trades based MA crossovers...because that is where I believe momentum is born...So my style has become to take and hold multiple trades for 30-50 ticks with CL ZB ES and EC...my setups occur regularly through the day on these and I am fortunate enough to be able to handle the margin requirement...for me this thread is about reflecting and looking at my approach and continuing to explore goal based trading...

My entry criteria for a trade is to use the hour chart and the 1500vol chart and confirm that the 21 and 75ma are sloping in favour of the direction in which I am trading...so my two primary trades setups are...

Spine Break
If a price bar breaks the spine in favour of the vein, enter at the value of the spine or on the confirmation bar.

Vein Break
If a price bar breaks the vein in favour of the spine, enter at the value of the vein or on the confirmation bar.


Thank you for your post, and thank you to Lance for this great thread!!!

Could you possibly post a chart to show what you mean about price breaking the spine towards the vein, etc. Trying to visualize it.

Thank you.

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BlueRoo
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Drd13 View Post
Thank you for your post, and thank you to Lance for this great thread!!!

Could you possibly post a chart to show what you mean about price breaking the spine towards the vein, etc. Trying to visualize it.

Thank you.

Drd, it is not towards the vein...it is in favour of the vein...meaning the slope...here is the graphic I have in my trading plan...


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 Michaelktrader 
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Nice thread.

Thanks for sharing; have you noticed crude making an incredible amount of false breaks lately during Nymex rth?

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 lancelottrader 
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Michaelktrader View Post
Nice thread.

Thanks for sharing; have you noticed crude making an incredible amount of false breaks lately during Nymex rth?

Yes, I actually use some of those as my setup. I have one called The False Break Overshoot Reversal. Here's one from today when price looked like it was breaking through a 00 number.

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 lancelottrader 
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After having fairly mixed results trying to master TF, I started looking at YM again. I've always felt the price action was a good match for my style and I found the moves often smoother than TF. My problem has been the $5 tick value instead of 10$. What I failed to realize is how many 20 tick or more opportunities that happen with my system everyday. So I researched months of charts and decided that as long as my minimum target was 20 ticks, it would be like making 10 ticks on CL or TF. The last week or so, I have been trading it on SIM and getting excellent results.

Here's some trades from today..5 trades all 20 tick winners for 100 ticks. Yes, it is SIM , but no reason it shouldn't work live.

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 tflanner 
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just got an email that ICE exchange will begin to charge $117 a month for TF data beginning April 1st. I trade CL, TF, ES, and NQ. I am no longer going to trade TF. This $117 charge annoys me. Cheaper to trade the CME indices. Will begin to pay attention to YM.

thx for ur thread.

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 Sk8ter 
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lancelottrader View Post
After having fairly mixed results trying to master TF, I started looking at YM again. I've always felt the price action was a good match for my style and I found the moves often smoother than TF. My problem has been the $5 tick value instead of 10$. What I failed to realize is how many 20 tick or more opportunities that happen with my system everyday. So I researched months of charts and decided that as long as my minimum target was 20 ticks, it would be like making 10 ticks on CL or TF. The last week or so, I have been trading it on SIM and getting excellent results.

Here's some trades from today..5 trades all 20 tick winners for 100 ticks. Yes, it is SIM , but no reason it shouldn't work live.

@lancelottrader, awhile back you were looking at NQ before you decided to test out the TF. Are you finding that the YM is smoother than the NQ? thanks

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 lancelottrader 
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tflanner View Post
just got an email that ICE exchange will begin to charge $117 a month for TF data beginning April 1st. I trade CL, TF, ES, and NQ. I am no longer going to trade TF. This $117 charge annoys me. Cheaper to trade the CME indices. Will begin to pay attention to YM.

thx for ur thread.

I had no idea about that. Thanks..I don't think I want to pay that fee, either.

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 lancelottrader 
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Sk8ter View Post
@lancelottrader, awhile back you were looking at NQ before you decided to test out the TF. Are you finding that the YM is smoother than the NQ? thanks

So far, yes. Again, that is with my system I use. I probably will be able to answer that better in a few weeks. From what I am seeing, YM makes a lot of directional moves that easily make 20 to 50 ticks(points) or more..while staying in fairly tight ema's. The smaller point value is easily overcome with larger targets..plus your stops can be wider but still be less risk.

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 lancelottrader 
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Today is a good example why I often wait until after the oil report comes out to trade..on Wednesdays. I don't like this price movement at all.

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 lancelottrader 
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YUCK!

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 lancelottrader 
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It's interesting to see how many threads on Trading forums follow the same evolutionary pattern. They start out as a journal of sorts where someone explains some semblance of a system. Then it devolves into various people all showing their current experiment of the week and more Holy grail searching. "Wait..lets use point and figure bars..no..how about Renko..hey..lets change all the rules now..No..lets go tick bars..yeah..that'll work!"Reminds me of when I was a novice on the Forex factory site. There's comes a time, if one wants this to be more than just a Hobby, to end the eternal testing phase and do something that works.

But apparently people like that stuff and are easily bored by any type of consistent system. The problem is when you are looking at the market through different bars, timeframes and indicators every week, it's becomes very hard to perceive the market flow through any consistent frame of reference.

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Hickock
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tflanner View Post
just got an email that ICE exchange will begin to charge $117 a month for TF data beginning April 1st. I trade CL, TF, ES, and NQ. I am no longer going to trade TF. This $117 charge annoys me. Cheaper to trade the CME indices. Will begin to pay attention to YM.


That's equivalent to just one small trade of what could be several in a day on the TF. Not happy about it, but it's just a cost of doing business. I will be glad when it reverts back to the CME though.

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BlueRoo
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Lance a forum is not this. A forum is a place for self discovery. To take a step past the Limits of a forum requires developing a professional relationship. I have found the work I do with my trading buddies to this end is very useful in my own development as a trader, but you can not get to this level of you are still toying around with your trading system...my experience with a collaborative group is that it is not about the trades but the running of a trading business...

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ClutchAce
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BlueRoo View Post
Lance a forum is not this. A forum is a place for self discovery. To take a step past the Limits of a forum requires developing a professional relationship. I have found the work I do with my trading buddies to this end is very useful in my own development as a trader, but you can not get to this level of you are still toying around with your trading system...my experience with a collaborative group is that it is not about the trades but the running of a trading business...

Pardon, but.... what?

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BlueRoo
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Sorry if I did not explain myself well. What I wanted to do was encourage the idea that there is a difference between what can be experienced between a forum and making an effort to develop collaborative professional relationships...which is for me a different thing to a forum...I understand what Lance says about how these forums evolve and I would just like to suggest that there are other pathways to develop. I have thought for some time that working alone is a challenge and that the corporate relationships and team management model can be a vehicle for my development as a trader.

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 tflanner 
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Hickock View Post
That's equivalent to just one small trade of what could be several in a day on the TF. Not happy about it, but it's just a cost of doing business. I will be glad when it reverts back to the CME though.

I understand your point. Also, for me it is .35 cents more a round turn to trade TF than the CME indices.

Just tired of getting nickeled and dime by the Exchanges. I have shared this story before. I started wkg at the Cbot in '87. Prez of my firm worked at the CME. Years later he would become chairman of the CME. I was a broker and I decided to take another job. We had breakfast to discuss my plans. He asked me what my long term plans were in the business. I said I wanted to trade. He looked me in the eye and said Don't Trade. The people who make $ in this business are not the traders. It is the middle men.

That is the mentality of the people that wk at the exchanges. They r middle men who never traded and make good $ taking no risk. I sold my Cbot membership in 2011. I don't like the exchanges. They get enough of our $. Sometime u just have to say enough.

Please no reply, let's keep this thread on Lance trading.

The Market is Smarter than You Are
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 dannyinhouston 
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Lance,

I am just beginning to trade crude, and I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into these posts. I learned more from your posts than anywhere else I have researched.

After spending a career in the oil business here in Texas, and I hoping to begin trading crude as an encore career in a few months as I transition towards retirement.

Again, thank you so much for your efforts.

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 lancelottrader 
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dannyinhouston View Post
Lance,

I am just beginning to trade crude, and I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into these posts. I learned more from your posts than anywhere else I have researched.

After spending a career in the oil business here in Texas, and I hoping to begin trading crude as an encore career in a few months as I transition towards retirement.

Again, thank you so much for your efforts.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Good luck with everything and let me know if you have any questions.

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 lancelottrader 
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BlueRoo View Post
Sorry if I did not explain myself well. What I wanted to do was encourage the idea that there is a difference between what can be experienced between a forum and making an effort to develop collaborative professional relationships...which is for me a different thing to a forum...I understand what Lance says about how these forums evolve and I would just like to suggest that there are other pathways to develop. I have thought for some time that working alone is a challenge and that the corporate relationships and team management model can be a vehicle for my development as a trader.

Sounds interesting. Although I find trading. for myself, to be a solitary endeavor, I like the idea of what you are suggesting.

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BlueRoo
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lancelottrader View Post
Sounds interesting. Although I find trading. for myself, to be a solitary endeavor, I like the idea of what you are suggesting.

I agree I find the act of trading is a smoother experience if I am focused on my own process. Is it solitary...? Yes I am not at all interested in what other traders are doing in terms of their trades. I think most jobs have a solitary aspect to them...a point when the individual needs to get on with it and just do it...but working as a trader is not special or different in many ways to the day to day routine of any other kind of job...for me personally coming from a business and corporate background what I have found is in my trading work life there is no networking...and it is this aspect that I have found through developing collaborative professional relationships which has increased my level of awareness and engagement very useful...It is not about learning a trading system or methodology or how someone does it...it is much more about shared experience...the vehicles for this experience in our modern world are extensive and interestingly I have found it helpful not to be so focused on myself and to be open, carefree and interested...

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 lancelottrader 
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BlueRoo View Post
I agree I find the act of trading is a smoother experience if I am focused on my own process. Is it solitary...? Yes I am not at all interested in what other traders are doing in terms of their trades. I think most jobs have a solitary aspect to them...a point when the individual needs to get on with it and just do it...but working as a trader is not special or different in many ways to the day to day routine of any other kind of job...for me personally coming from a business and corporate background what I have found is in my trading work life there is no networking...and it is this aspect that I have found through developing collaborative professional relationships which has increased my level of awareness and engagement very useful...It is not about learning a trading system or methodology or how someone does it...it is much more about shared experience...the vehicles for this experience in our modern world are extensive and interestingly I have found it helpful not to be so focused on myself and to be open, carefree and interested...

Yes, good points. In an ideal situation, it would be nice to have some true successful traders in which to exchange ideas or even be mentored by. And I'm sure for the fortunate few who are lucky to find that situation..or be friends with someone like that, it would be extremely rewarding. I know if I had met a true mentor, it would have saved me years of failure and lost money.
But the reality is for the majority of us Retail traders, most "mentors" out there seem to be vendors of overpriced indicators and shoddy trading systems. Most of these vendors are failed traders who make money selling their wares and not from being traders.
Then the other resource is other retail traders on forums. Now, I must say I have found many valuable lessons on here that I have incorporated into my own system..and I hope my thread has offered perhaps at least one thing someone can take and help them. But for many years, the whole endeavor has been one huge "leap of Faith." Why? Because seldom in the retail world to you have anyone where you can verifiably prove that they are successful. So, it's always that there is this vague idea that someone out there (who is a retail trader) is making lots of money, but no one ever really proves it. So it takes a very special person (or a really dumb one) to spend years at something..and untold amounts of money..when none of his forum peers seem to be able to prove success. In other words, how do you look around at all that and say, "Well, I have these magical qualities that will make me achieve something that 95% of everyone trying it ..fails at."
One of the reasons I made all the videos that showed me actually taking live trades was to offer some small display of consistency that comes from using a method forged from years of observing market behavior and exploiting patterns that repeat themselves under certain market conditions.
Now, there will be some retail traders that will have a much faster learning curve than me and will progress much quicker. They won't need to spend years at this and lose over $100,000 dollars before they succeed. They will be better than I have ever been.
But..these people will be very, very rare. So ,, if one is finding that through some sort of collaboration with a "mastermind group" of sorts, you can achieve profitabilty through your trading. I commend you. I wish I could have found such a group when I was in my early stages.

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 Okina 
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@lancelottrader

At your level you don't need anyone to teach you how to trade. You have clearly demonstrated that you are a very mature and profitable trader who as been able to develop a method of his own.

But and here I speak for me, and so I may be wrong, I have a daily target and once I reach it I tend to leave the market, it could be at 8AM or at 11AM or during the afternoon etc... Being alone is for me the major cause of my lack of consistency and a big miss of opportunities (having reached my target at 8AM should be an encouragement to double it by 11 ? In fact it is for me the opposite). That what I seek and find in sharing trades in live (not too live because you lose your focus) on a forum.

R.I.P. Olivier Terrier (aka "Okina"), 1969-2016.
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 lancelottrader 
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Okina View Post
@lancelottrader

At your level you don't need anyone to teach you how to trade. You have clearly demonstrated that you are a very mature and profitable trader who as been able to develop a method of his own.

But and here I speak for me, and so I may be wrong, I have a daily target and once I reach it I tend to leave the market, it could be at 8AM or at 11AM or during the afternoon etc... Being alone is for me the major cause of my lack of consistency and a big miss of opportunities (having reached my target at 8AM should be an encouragement to double it by 11 ? In fact it is for me the opposite). That what I seek and find in sharing trades in live (not too live because you lose your focus) on a forum.

I understand..in fact if one goes back several pages in my thread here, they will see that I was posting a lot of trades in real time..I was showing the charts and my entries and then I would reveal in the next post what they did. I didn't get much participation from others though..as far as them posting their trades.

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