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Where should I start my journey?
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Created: by Lavrans Attachments:0

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Where should I start my journey?

 
Elite Member
Oslo Norway
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Metatrader
Favorite Futures: Corn
 
Lavrans's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 31 given, 5 received


Fxfutures1976 View Post
This post and another one I just read from seatle7 have invaluable no bullshit advice. Read them over and over. I can relate to them in so many ways. Great posts guys.

Most people, I was one’ really don’t understand how difficult and how long it takes. I have friends asking me ‘can I teach them to trade’ like it’s a game of dominoes or something. If anyone plays golf I can use an anology. A pro golfer would spend many years practising their craft, even the top pros have full time coaches. I could ask a pro golfer to teach me how to play golf but I would have to spend at least the same amount of time he did , with him by my side, to even have a chance of getting anywhere near his level. I would also need the same mindset and the drive and will to succeed.

Yes I like your point of view!

 
 
Market Wizard
Sarasota FL
 
Trading Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader, Sierra Chart
Favorite Futures: ES
 
Posts: 4,491 since Jan 2013
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If I can say just one thing, it would be that you will need to sift through the ideas you find here and elsewhere, put them together in some way that makes sense to you and that you can see how to act on, and then get into it and actually try them out in trading.

You will need to use simulation at first to avoid losing your money when things don't work, but at some point it is a very different game when you have actual cash on the line, and you will need to experience that too.

You should also know that while everyone who has posted advice for you has certainly meant what they said, you could take anyone's method and find another trader who has done the near opposite and who has also been successful -- as well as others who tried the same method and failed. A huge part of successful trading lies in the individual trader's application, as well as his management of his own emotional responses to trading: to losing and making money, to finding and missing opportunities, etc.

You are definitely going to need to find your own way, and when you do, it will be, essentially, yours alone, whether it's like someone else's or not.

I hope you can take some of what has been suggested in this thread and put it to good use.

Good luck.

Bob.

The following 3 users say Thank You to bobwest for this post:
 
 
Trading Apprentice
Tri State Area
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: TOS, NT7
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Lavrans View Post
Lol!

He certainly had the ironwill to become a successful trader no matter what

If you think it is funny what this guy went thru in trading, save your money bro, this shit is that HARD. So, how badly do YOU want it?

 
 
Elite Member
Los Angeles, California, United States
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: ThinkOrSwim, Ninja Trader
Favorite Futures: Futures
 
Posts: 97 since Aug 2013
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@ Lavrans


Quoting 
I'm ready to be exposed.

As has been said about fighting Mike Tyson, “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” You will only know when you start trading real money and lose on a trade.


Quoting 
I think I have the right mindset and thougness to be a good trader.

You don’t know anything until you test it with real money.


Quoting 
That is true, but I cant get a edge if I dont even try.

Of course you should try, but not get an edge over other traders or the market. You’re not trading against the market, you’re trading against yourself.

In fact, think of it this way: There is no edge. Trading is like surfing. A surfer is not trying to get an edge over the ocean or a huge wave. It is impossible. A surfer is trying to survive and ride a wave a little. The market will do what it wants to do. Your job is A) To survive. B) Ride it for a profit.


Quoting 
I guess sometimes you just have to believe in people.

Smart people do not believe, they verify.


Quoting 
If a quad cork was the only thing I ever saw, yes probably.

Why? Where is your common sense? You would get killed or badly injured. Nobody starts learning from advanced stuff.


Quoting 
Are you saying that there is absolute no value in reading books what so ever for people who are completely new to trading?

You have to understand the difference between entertainment and study/learning material. The so-called “market wizards” did not read books about “how to become a market wizard” before they became the market wizards.

Do you really think you can become a professional trader by reading a $20.76 book?


Quoting 
Why is commodities so much harder?

The question is why do you want to trade commodities? Because you’ve read about it in a “wizardz” book about people who had millions at their disposal to trade, not to mention the knowledge?

And which commodity do you want to trade, all of them? “Commodities” is a general term for a basket of stuff. Oil, sugar, corn, coffee, gold, etc are all commodities. Are you going to trade gold and sugar the same way? Do you understand what influences the price of oil vs gold, for example?

Commodities are a specialized market. They require deeper knowledge compared to a broad market such as ES. They are less liquid, sometimes less predictable, do not have internals such as the tick, advance/decline, etc and are harder to trade. They are not for beginners.


Quoting 
Why, have you read them?

Yes, I have read them, as entertainment and many other “trading” books. I’ve already explained why. When you open a chart of CL or ES and need to pull a trigger, there is zero information in any of those books that would tell you what to do in actual trading.


Quoting 
I would definetively ask him that question if my goal was to throw a ball.

As the saying goes, “if you need to ask the price, you cannot afford it.” You would not ask him anything, because in order to ask, you first need to be there. And if you’re already there, you’re on the same level as he is, on average. If you’re there, you already know how to throw a ball. You already know everything he knows. But on average, he is just a little better than you because he has a better mental game, that is all there is to it.

The following user says Thank You to john5 for this post:
 
 
Elite Member
Oslo Norway
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
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Favorite Futures: Corn
 
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john5 View Post
@ Lavrans







As has been said about fighting Mike Tyson, “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” You will only know when you start trading real money and lose on a trade.







You don’t know anything until you test it with real money.







Of course you should try, but not get an edge over other traders or the market. You’re not trading against the market, you’re trading against yourself.



In fact, think of it this way: There is no edge. Trading is like surfing. A surfer is not trying to get an edge over the ocean or a huge wave. It is impossible. A surfer is trying to survive and ride a wave a little. The market will do what it wants to do. Your job is A) To survive. B) Ride it for a profit.







Smart people do not believe, they verify.







Why? Where is your common sense? You would get killed or badly injured. Nobody starts learning from advanced stuff.







You have to understand the difference between entertainment and study/learning material. The so-called “market wizards” did not read books about “how to become a market wizard” before they became the market wizards.



Do you really think you can become a professional trader by reading a $20.76 book?







The question is why do you want to trade commodities? Because you’ve read about it in a “wizardz” book about people who had millions at their disposal to trade, not to mention the knowledge?



And which commodity do you want to trade, all of them? “Commodities” is a general term for a basket of stuff. Oil, sugar, corn, coffee, gold, etc are all commodities. Are you going to trade gold and sugar the same way? Do you understand what influences the price of oil vs gold, for example?



Commodities are a specialized market. They require deeper knowledge compared to a broad market such as ES. They are less liquid, sometimes less predictable, do not have internals such as the tick, advance/decline, etc and are harder to trade. They are not for beginners.







Yes, I have read them, as entertainment and many other “trading” books. I’ve already explained why. When you open a chart of CL or ES and need to pull a trigger, there is zero information in any of those books that would tell you what to do in actual trading.







As the saying goes, “if you need to ask the price, you cannot afford it.” You would not ask him anything, because in order to ask, you first need to be there. And if you’re already there, you’re on the same level as he is, on average. If you’re there, you already know how to throw a ball. You already know everything he knows. But on average, he is just a little better than you because he has a better mental game, that is all there is to it.



Thank you for your kind words.
I wish you the best on your trading


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

 
 
Elite Member
Oslo Norway
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Metatrader
Favorite Futures: Corn
 
Lavrans's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 31 given, 5 received


Fxfutures1976 View Post
You seem like a really good guy, and your Picture also displays that for some reason, so for what Its worth Ill give you a few tips.

Trading as we know is one of the unnatural things for our minds to conceive because it involves taking risks, being wrong & losing money. Our subconcious mind will want to avoid that as much as possible, so it will cause us to to change a method that has been doing ok but starts to lose us money and cause- 1) Fear of loss. 2) fear of missing out 3) fear of failure. 4) fear of profit. That is one of the reasons why its so dificult. as I said before, you're personality may help in these issues.

I am a bit impatient and don't like missing out so I can get in trades too early, get stopped out then the trade works out , but now I do that less due to the process I take.

There are so many ways to skin a cat so unfortunately you will have to spend months, weeks, years testing out what works for you, but keep it simple.

Ill give you a brief example of what is involved for each trade I take. there are stages before I can move onto the next.

I trade currency so I look at all the major currency pairs and DXY/gold. to see if Im buying or selling the dollar for the day.

1) what news is due for the day.
2) Is the market rangebound or Trending.
3) what direction I am going to trade.
4) what type of trade i am going to use if my levels get tested or broke.

I have 5 Trade types that I take and each one has between 12-15 rules i need to see before I put the orders In or take a manual entry. That helps takes the emotions out.

If i miss one of those checks for each trade it will probably be a loss, so you have to be 100% discipline.
Write your rules down for each setup and use a check list if you need to.

Use multiple timeframes, I use from the Month down. The higher time frames M-W-D will give you the direction analysis.
And the lower time frames will be your entry/stop/exit points.

Analyse the charts, and find the move points, study the hell out of where it moved from on all time frames. Even if it was a news move, its more than likely it would of hit a technical area.

Go back months, years on the charts and see if happens regular, Trade that 1 method until you have the capacity to add more and ignore all the noise in between.

One of the most difficult things you will find is doing nothing. Write down your plan and stick to it. take at leats 50 trades on that method, if its consistent, work on it, if not, change the rules.

I can wait all day for a trade but its planned hours before and written down what I need for it to be triggered.

a silly anaology.
Think of a fantastic secret food recipe that has been been in a family for generations. It takes 20 or so ingredients to get that recipe how it should be. all ingredients added at different times and at certain temperatures. They will never let anyone know what goes into it as it has taken them decades to perfect so its very precious to them.

Silly I know, but just trying to give you some idea.

I really cant go into any fine detail, you need to find your own way. do not pay a mentor or anyone to teach you, they won't be able too.
I made that mistake early on and it set me back years.



Thank you for the compliment and your post!
The analogy was not silly and it was one of the most helpful posts for me.

Have a good day Fx!


Sent using the futures.io mobile app

 
 
Elite Member
London
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: cqg integrated,ninjatrade
Favorite Futures: Futures and forex
 
Posts: 40 since Apr 2015
Thanks: 6 given, 50 received

One more thing i'd like to add. Even though I speak about how difficult it has been and the many struggles I have had to get to where I am today, I wouldn't change it for anything. To me, I am doing a job I love and Im very passionate about. I look forward to Mondays so i can get back to Trading.

Good Luck on your Journey.



Lavrans View Post
Thank you for the compliment and your post!
The analogy was not silly and it was one of the most helpful posts for me.

Have a good day Fx!


Sent using the futures.io mobile app


 
 
Elite Member
Oslo Norway
 
Trading Experience: Beginner
Platform: Metatrader
Favorite Futures: Corn
 
Lavrans's Avatar
 
Posts: 23 since Jan 2019
Thanks: 31 given, 5 received


Fxfutures1976 View Post
One more thing i'd like to add. Even though I speak about how difficult it has been and the many struggles I have had to get to where I am today, I wouldn't change it for anything. To me, I am doing a job I love and Im very passionate about. I look forward to Mondays so i can get back to Trading.

Good Luck on your Journey.

That is my dream
Wish you the best !

The following user says Thank You to Lavrans for this post:
 
 
Trading Apprentice
Weatherford, Tx
 
Trading Experience: Advanced
Platform: Thinkorswim
Favorite Futures: Ag, energy & metal futures
 
Posts: 1 since Feb 2019
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Reading some books is good. You need to get a good understanding of the basics of the futures markets and the mechanics of the actual trading.

Choose a trading platform that allows you to paper trade on real information on a small delay. Use this to learn.

Find a mentor. I use Alexander Trading (alexandertrading.com)

Book suggestions -
Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz
Trend Following by Michael Covel
The Complete Turtle Trader by Michael Covel

Practice


 



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