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Bold Spoofer trading Crude today (5/10/18)
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Bold Spoofer trading Crude today (5/10/18)

  #1 (permalink)
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Bold Spoofer trading Crude today (5/10/18)

I'm kind of curious if anyone else here noticed the blatantly obvious spoofer in CL today. Of course CL is rife with spoofing to begin with, but this was just jaw-dropping.

Around 12:30? CDT someone/thing placed an order for about 200 contracts 8 cents above the ask. It was certainly an automated trader because that same sized order moved at the very second the ask did. This went on all the way until 3:30 or 4:00. The order was always 5-10 cents off the ask. It pretty much lifted the price all afternoon from about 70.85 when I first noticed it, to about 71.45 at close.

It made for some easy money playing "follow the leader," but man, I was just shocked by the audacity of it all.

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  #3 (permalink)
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Report it.
The exchanges are cracking down on this type of behavior but I think they still struggle identifying infractions.
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  #4 (permalink)
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SMCJB View Post
Report it.
The exchanges are cracking down on this type of behavior but I think they still struggle identifying infractions.
Market Regulation - CME Group
Filing Complaints - half way down on left

Check this out.



This was from today, London time, so about a couple hours ago.

There's a big order roughly 10 ticks away from spread that keeps moving up/down according to where the market is, always around 10 ticks away.

Would that be the spoofing OP was referring to?

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  #5 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Check this out.



This was from today, London time, so about a couple hours ago.

There's a big order roughly 10 ticks away from spread that keeps moving up/down according to where the market is, always around 10 ticks away.

Would that be the spoofing OP was referring to?

Looks exactly the same, yes.

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i cant watch the vid on my phone but from the description it sounds like somebody an automated limit order set to ask minus 10 cents. is that considered spoofing?


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Odds Dumpeertje View Post
i cant watch the vid on my phone but from the description it sounds like somebody an automated limit order set to ask minus 10 cents. is that considered spoofing?


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checked out the video. looks like someone looking to get filled on stop cascades. without it you would see more slippage on your buy stops.


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  #8 (permalink)
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Odds Dumpeertje View Post
is that considered spoofing?

I think that depends upon the intent of the order.
(C) is, is of the character of, or is commonly known to the trade as, “spoofing” (bidding or
offering with the intent to cancel the bid or offer before execution).
Traditionally 'Spoofing' is entering some smaller orders on one side of the market, then entering a large order on the other side of the market, with the intention that the market then moves and fills your initial orders, at which time you cancel the large order.

As such having an autospreader continually quoteing 10 ticks off the market probably isn't in itself a violation - unless they are doing it to try and influence the market. I'll ask some people I know who will have a more accurate opinion than me on Monday and see what they say.

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SMCJB View Post
I think that depends upon the intent of the order.
(C) is, is of the character of, or is commonly known to the trade as, “spoofing” (bidding or
offering with the intent to cancel the bid or offer before execution).
Traditionally 'Spoofing' is entering some smaller orders on one side of the market, then entering a large order on the other side of the market, with the intention that the market then moves and fills your initial orders, at which time you cancel the large order.

As such having an autospreader continually quoteing 10 ticks off the market probably isn't in itself a violation - unless they are doing it to try and influence the market. I'll ask some people I know who will have a more accurate opinion than me on Monday and see what they say.

Thanks SMCJB - I did read somewhere that proving intent is extremely difficult - this is why I wondered.

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  #10 (permalink)
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xplorer View Post
Thanks SMCJB - I did read somewhere that proving intent is extremely difficult - this is why I wondered.

That's how they got that English Guy who was spoofing ES. They had texts and messages where he was specifically outlining what he wanted the orders to do and when he needed them to cancel. No issue proving intent there. He did it himself. But in most other cases, especially if you don't have access to the code, it's more difficult. I suspect that the cases we see and hear about are one where there was long standing record of it, and not odd one off occasions.

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