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Trading futures with $5000
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Trading futures with $5000

  #31 (permalink)
Trading for Profit
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: TradeStation
Favorite Futures: ES
 
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chipps1983 View Post
$5000 is not enough at all to start trading futures. why don't you try TST pogram with minimum monthly fee and evaluate your self ?

We just discussed, that eventually the TST Live trader also starts out with a 5K account...

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  #32 (permalink)
Elite Member
Murrells Inlet SC
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, ETFs
 
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trading654 View Post
Is this really something one should be doing? The contracts are so big that I think this is like a surefire way to getting wiped out quickly. A part of me feels like one has to have at least $100k to be able to trade futures in an intelligent way. What do you think?

That'll pay your first week or two's tuition. Then you will add 10k which should get you a few months because you will stop out every $50. Do that one more time until you feel really bad about essentially loosing a mediocre car. Take a break- come back with 25k a couple months later- work it down to 10k - stare at the screen in awe, SIM trade until you are " on to something" for 3 days in a row- blow out that 10k and come back with $50k to trade 1-3 contracts once you finally understand what you don't understand. Hope this helps and maybe saves you some money- I skipped the 5k level personally.

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  #33 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TC Pro
Favorite Futures: Crude Palm Oil FCPO
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received


Hi

anybody here know about FCPO at Bursa malaysia ?

(Crude palm oil future)

The margin to trade for one lot is only RM 5000

which equals to usd 1213.00

so, if you have usd 5000...means ..it's over 4 fold the margin

and the tick value is RM 25 (eq 6 usd )


everthing is regulated by the "Bursa malaysia" under the " National bank of malaysia"...so, i can say that it's o.k


now i doing full time trading FCPO

hope to learn trading tec here


( now, i rely mosly on Ichi ..& camarella pivot ...so far so good

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  #34 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
Futures Experience: None
Platform: Jigsaw
Broker/Data: Tradovate
Favorite Futures: US Treasuries
 
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Bateleur View Post
Hi

anybody here know about FCPO at Bursa malaysia ?

(Crude palm oil future)

The margin to trade for one lot is only RM 5000

which equals to usd 1213.00

so, if you have usd 5000...means ..it's over 4 fold the margin

and the tick value is RM 25 (eq 6 usd )

If your trading method risks no more than 9-10 ($54-$60) ticks, your expectancy is above 1.0, and you have the discipline to follow through... sure I guess that could work.

With that you would have to answer follow on questions like liquidity and slippage associated with liquidity and factor that back into the first sentence.

The name of the game in trading is allowing enough trades of your method to have the math of your edge work out. Poker players don't expect to win every single hand. They expect that whatever game plan they have will work out in the long run to a profit. So should you.

The biggest problem I have with this thread is that there's an underlying assumption (and hope) that one can be the 1 in a million freak anomaly to be so good at trading, that you can take outsized risk, using outsized futures leverage, and make it to unspeakable riches using that wreckless system ad infinitum. Sure there are traders who presumably make it to becoming funded through the 10k program.. but my bet is that you will not be one of them. That is why the entry fee for the 10k combine is the cheapest. It's basically free money for them.

Nothing worth having comes easy.
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  #35 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TC Pro
Favorite Futures: Crude Palm Oil FCPO
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received

Thanks fminus for your comment
i really like your word "one can be the 1 in a million freak anomaly to be so good "

yeah...agreed...big percentage are also losers here at FCPO

as for me, i am now totally scalping,,,

using my initial margin RM 10 k ( usd 2500 )...base my set up on camarella pivot....and only staying about 15 minutes to 1 hour in the market each trade...trading 1 lot....Stop loss order around 10 ticks (depands on the camarella),..I usually get about Rm 200 to RM 300 a day..( 3 or 4 entry)

i do sometimes getting stop loss ...but..normally 1 in 5 trade maybe ..

( FCPO trading hours..is in two session...morning session..10.30 to 12.30...break.....then.. afternoon session 3.00 to 6.oo pm malaysian time )

so far..i can make nett profit around RM 1 k per week constantly..maybe not much to most traders.. ( RM 1 k is only about usd 250 ), but..i'm looking forward to double my "lot" when i am really confident in doing so..

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  #36 (permalink)
Elite Member
Washington DC
 
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Bateleur View Post
Thanks fminus for your comment
i really like your word "one can be the 1 in a million freak anomaly to be so good "

yeah...agreed...big percentage are also losers here at FCPO

as for me, i am now totally scalping,,,

using my initial margin RM 10 k ( usd 2500 )...base my set up on camarella pivot....and only staying about 15 minutes to 1 hour in the market each trade...trading 1 lot....Stop loss order around 10 ticks (depands on the camarella),..I usually get about Rm 200 to RM 300 a day..( 3 or 4 entry)

i do sometimes getting stop loss ...but..normally 1 in 5 trade maybe ..

( FCPO trading hours..is in two session...morning session..10.30 to 12.30...break.....then.. afternoon session 3.00 to 6.oo pm malaysian time )

so far..i can make nett profit around RM 1 k per week constantly..maybe not much to most traders.. ( RM 1 k is only about usd 250 ), but..i'm looking forward to double my "lot" when i am really confident in doing so..

It's great that you can get about RM 1k per week but...I encourage you not to focus too much on profit/loss. Focus on your method, executing well, and following your plan. The problem with using profit/loss as measurement tool of your trading ability is that you will hit losing streaks and you will start to question everything. Market cycles and market conditions change.

If you have ever watched golf, the golfer does not cheer and start dreaming about being a PGA champion if he hits 1 good shot. He celebrates a good shot knowing that the next shot is a completely separate event with an uncertain outcome. He doesn't care that the guy next to him hit a good shot too or hit a horrible shot. He just focuses on trying to make his next shot as great as the last. At the end of the game he counts his score.

If I had to tell my younger self the keys to profitable trading they would be:

1) Create a trading plan that's rock solid
2) Follow money management plan
3) Being well capitalized for the right instrument
4) Being disciplined enough to follow all the above numbers without question or hesitation
5) Only allowed to tweak method after 100 disciplined trades.

Nothing worth having comes easy.
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  #37 (permalink)
 R.I.P. 1969-2016 
montreal quebec/canada
 
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trading654 View Post
Is this really something one should be doing? The contracts are so big that I think this is like a surefire way to getting wiped out quickly. A part of me feels like one has to have at least $100k to be able to trade futures in an intelligent way. What do you think?

I think you do not ask the right question.

What is your strategy, what are your results on SIM, what kind of stats do you have etc... Depending on the answers 5K may be enough (even if I doubt it because you can barely afford the official margin for most contracts even if some broker allow ridiculously low margin on ES for example which are in my opinion "criminal" ) or 100k or even 1M may be not enough... Why not trying ETF? They track the same instrument but with less leverage as so less risk.

The marvelous thing with trading is that almost everything is possible when we speak of success even if the worst is unfortunately the more probable.

Good luck and good trading.

R.I.P. Olivier Terrier (aka "Okina"), 1969-2016.
Please visit this thread for more information.

Last edited by Okina; March 10th, 2016 at 09:25 AM.
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  #38 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Malaysia
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TC Pro
Favorite Futures: Crude Palm Oil FCPO
 
Posts: 5 since Mar 2016
Thanks: 5 given, 1 received


fminus View Post
It's great that you can get about RM 1k per week but...I encourage you not to focus too much on profit/loss. Focus on your method, executing well, and following your plan. The problem with using profit/loss as measurement tool of your trading ability is that you will hit losing streaks and you will start to question everything. Market cycles and market conditions change.

If you have ever watched golf, the golfer does not cheer and start dreaming about being a PGA champion if he hits 1 good shot. He celebrates a good shot knowing that the next shot is a completely separate event with an uncertain outcome. He doesn't care that the guy next to him hit a good shot too or hit a horrible shot. He just focuses on trying to make his next shot as great as the last. At the end of the game he counts his score.

If I had to tell my younger self the keys to profitable trading they would be:

1) Create a trading plan that's rock solid
2) Follow money management plan
3) Being well capitalized for the right instrument
4) Being disciplined enough to follow all the above numbers without question or hesitation
5) Only allowed to tweak method after 100 disciplined trades.


thank you..thank you..thank you..

i can't thank you enough!

great advice!..it's true that i focus too much on profit, that its really hurt when i loss
yes...i'll focus more on setup, method...will try!

i learnt a lot from Tom Hougaard videos (youtube ) and i believed certainly allined with your points

thanks again


p/s....its 12 noon here in malaysia....wah..still up?

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  #39 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Los Angeles, CA
 
Futures Experience: Advanced
Platform: Interactive Brokers
Favorite Futures: ES, CL, SB, KC, Forex
 
Posts: 14 since Jan 2016
Thanks: 0 given, 5 received

I noticed that most people who say "$5k is too little", and "it's not enough to survive drawdowns" , seems like they are making assumptions about holding periods. If you are looking to hold a contract overnight or longer - yes the risk of not having enough capital to meet margin req's is big, but if you are scalping and your holding period is very short and stops are tight - $5k might be sufficient, assuming you don't hit a long string of losses. You'd have to be a great (and consistent) market timer though, and very lucky on top of that

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  #40 (permalink)
Trading Apprentice
Los Angeles, CA
 
Futures Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TOS
Favorite Futures: NG
 
Posts: 5 since Jun 2014
Thanks: 7 given, 1 received


What about QM? Its a half contract for CL. 5k would give you 3k to lose until your under margin requirement. That 30 bad trades @ 20 CL/tick stop. If by some miracle could learn within 30 bad trades, then you could scale up to CL and start growing profit.

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