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Old school trader,using end of day data only, Anyone else?
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Old school trader,using end of day data only, Anyone else?

  #11 (permalink)
Elite Member
Chicago, Il
 
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Basically it sounds like what you want to do is this:

1. Place your day order and if it is filled, 2. automatically place your stop order as 3. GTC?

The first 2 are easy. But the GTC part is a bit tricky. Not all exchanges accept orders to be routed to them as a GTC order (maybe that has changed in the last few years, the main exchanges accept them) and if they do the get purged periodically when there is system maintenance or something similar so you have to re-enter them. Its not like the old days with the pits, where the pit brokers order deck was a foot thick and he needed 2 clerks to manage it for him.

Not all brokers will accept GTC orders because it exposes them to risk because often times customers forget they have an order and 2 months later when it is filled, the customer will call up and say they already got out of the position and that order should have been cancelled. So either the customer loses or the broker loses. Ask your broker about GTC orders. A full service broker will most likely be willing to accept GTC orders. Discount brokers you have to manage the order yourself more than likely. But if you are changing it everyday, you might as well re-enter it daily as a day order.

A lot of people still trade on EOD charts.

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  #12 (permalink)
Market Wizard
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Not all brokers will accept GTC orders because it exposes them to risk because often times customers forget they have an order and 2 months later when it is filled, the customer will call up and say they already got out of the position and that order should have been cancelled.

A broker and client in my personal opinion are a lot more exposed when there is no stop GTC.
I have never heard of a broker that does not accept GTC orders if the exchange accepts that order for that specific commodity.

Those who trade EOD, may place stops that are considered far, so it would be advised to use GTCs.
It is the responsibility of the customer to cancel any open orders like GTCs when other orders may offset current positions, but it is common courtesy and common sense to review all outstanding orders.

Matt

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  #13 (permalink)
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mattz View Post
A broker and client in my personal opinion are a lot more exposed when there is no stop GTC.
I have never heard of a broker that does not accept GTC orders if the exchange accepts that order for that specific commodity.

Those who trade EOD, may place stops that are considered far, so it would be advised to use GTCs.
It is the responsibility of the customer to cancel any open orders like GTCs when other orders may offset current positions, but it is common courtesy and common sense to review all outstanding orders.

I agree with you 100% Matt, I used to be a futures broker for many years in my previous life. Most exchanges do accept GTC orders as an order type, so it will be offered to a customer who should be able to enter their order as a GTC with the exchange. 98% of the people on futures.io (formerly BMT) trade CME/CBOT/ICE/Eurex/Liffe so it is not an issue. A customer has the responsibility to manage their GTCs, whether it is cancelling them when they offset or checking them on a daily basis. But people do forget orders as strange as it may seem. They may call up the broker to get out of the position and think the broker will know to cancel their GTC order without the customer telling the broker to cancel it, they assume the broker will know to cancel it or ask to cancel it. A good broker will notice it and catch it. At the end of the day it is the customer's responsibility to know what GTC orders they should be working or not.

When dealing with EOD traders their orders tend to be out the range for weeks on end, like if trading grains where most EOD traders tend to lurk. I am talking more about full service brokers, if you are self executing and placing your own GTC orders on CBOT then as a customer you need to check on your orders in the system that they are still there working at your price. Now before people throw stones at me, let me explain this last one. An FCM can see all their clients orders working in a master order book. Clerks on the electronic order desk, whose job it is to manage/watch all the connectivity and orders have been known to accidentally modify the wrong order or even cancel the wrong order when a clients calls up and is shouting that he lost connectivity and he needs to cancel orders or modify them. It happens, not often but it happens. Sometimes there is a connection problem between the FCM and the exchange and to get the connection back up quickly there has to be an order flush where GTCs can get cancelled and need to be replaced.

I guess what I am saying is it is good order procedure to check your working GTC's daily. It only take a few seconds, but can save you a lot of money and headaches.

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  #14 (permalink)
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A hint

I have a Ph D in Physics and decided to use my talents to understand futures.

I became a world class futures trader.

My hint is this:

Use LOTS of data. I looked at 600 years of data for 23 markets and just treated them as a string of numbers.

HERE IS THE BIG HINT!

YOU MUST SET ASIDE A TEST SET THAT IS NOT THE DATA SET YOU DEVELOP THE RULES ON.

Anyone who runs 10 years of Japanese Yen and then expects the return to be what they got using the data set as the test set is going to BE DESTROYED!

John

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